For Those who Blame Hurd's Struggles on the Offensive Scheme

[Rifleman]

2016 Stats Don't Lie . . .

Hurd Carries 122
Hurd Yards 451
Hurd YPC 3.69


Kamara/Kelly Carries 98
Kamara/Kelly Yards 522
Kamara/Kelly YPC 5.33



That is all.

 

[MurphyVol]

Still a bad scheme, but those stats are telling. Also, consider Hurd has had a back injury since fall camp per Deerpark

 

[RikidyBones]

Still a bad scheme, but those stats are telling. Also, consider Hurd has had a back injury since fall camp per Deerpark

Being spineless shouldnt be considered an injury.




I kid.

 

[TheDeeble]

I'm not defending him leaving but our scheme doesn't suit a rb of his size. Draws where he can't build up any momentum or handing him the ball and forcing him to make one or two cuts before he even gets to the line of scrimmage.

He's a big back. Give him the ball with some momentum and let him run downfield. Our scheme forces him to go left right too much. Fine for Kamara, but not Hurd.

 

[Remy]

I'm not defending him leaving but our scheme doesn't suit a rb of his size. Draws where he can't build up any momentum or handing him the ball and forcing him to make one or two cuts before he even gets to the line of scrimmage.

He's a big back. Give him the ball with some momentum and let him run downfield. Our scheme forces him to go left right too much. Fine for Kamara, but not Hurd.

Scheme is not relevant!! What is it about Hurd declaring he no longer wants to be a RB rather he wants to be a TE/WR that people here at VN do not seem to grasp??? His official position is now, "I wanted to be a RB and you should have changed your entire scheme for me!! Now that I don't feel like it, I want to be a TE/WR somewhere else!!!" It never was about "scheme" that is a smokescreen by his "people" in my opinion and we have VN posters that don't like the scheme and glom on to it. Just stop it, it's nonsense.

 

[Rifleman]

I'm not defending him leaving but our scheme doesn't suit a rb of his size. Draws where he can't build up any momentum or handing him the ball and forcing him to make one or two cuts before he even gets to the line of scrimmage.

He's a big back. Give him the ball with some momentum and let him run downfield. Our scheme forces him to go left right too much. Fine for Kamara, but not Hurd.

He averaged 4.7 yards per carry for 2014 and 2015, put himself in position to be the all time leading rusher at UT, ran the ball well on some of the nation's most potent run defenses, built a national profile in a conference loaded with standout running backs, and was hyped to the nines in the offseason . . .

I know everyone here wants to adjust the blocking, play calling, and backfield personnel based on which RB is in the game. That sounds like a real fun adventure with our current offensive line. I don't remember any scenario where something like that worked. I'd prefer to keep the scheme that Kamara/Kelly are thriving in, rather than alter everything for a guy who is taking himself out of games.

 

[butchna]

2016 Stats Don't Lie . . .

Hurd Carries 122
Hurd Yards 451
Hurd YPC 3.69


Kamara/Kelly Carries 98
Kamara/Kelly Yards 522
Kamara/Kelly YPC 5.33



That is all.

All that shows is Kamara/Kelly performs better in this SCHEME. Sure the title of your thread is correct? :huh:

 

[Vol4ever]

I'm not defending him leaving but our scheme doesn't suit a rb of his size. Draws where he can't build up any momentum or handing him the ball and forcing him to make one or two cuts before he even gets to the line of scrimmage.

He's a big back. Give him the ball with some momentum and let him run downfield. Our scheme forces him to go left right too much. Fine for Kamara, but not Hurd.

He put on weight and muscle and is now a step slow. Couldnt hit the outside or inside hole for that matter.

 

[Rifleman]

All that shows is Kamara/Kelly performs better in this SCHEME. Sure the title of your thread is correct? :huh:

:lolabove:
I see that we have complete amnesia on Hurd's first two years at Tennessee now.
:good!:

 

[Daloth]

2016 Stats Don't Lie . . .

Hurd Carries 122
Hurd Yards 451
Hurd YPC 3.69


Kamara/Kelly Carries 98
Kamara/Kelly Yards 522
Kamara/Kelly YPC 5.33



That is all.

Stats show that schemes matter. See: Demarco Murray at the Cowboys then to the Eagles. This offense was never suited for Hurd. The fact he did so well the last two years IN SPITE of the offense not suiting him shows how good he is.

You can be critical and still be a fan. And these "stats" do nothing more than show that Butch and Debored did not know how to use Hurd, Kamara, or Kelley, because if you're not changing the offense to help Hurd then run the other two who are suited for it from game 1. And Hurd saw the ball far more than either of them.

 

[ORANGEUAVOL]

I could not agree more. The same scheme and the same so called bad offensive line are what got him into a position to become the all time leading rusher. And those backs ran behind some "good" lines.

 

[1974Vol]

Scheme is not relevant!! What is it about Hurd declaring he no longer wants to be a RB rather he wants to be a TE/WR that people here at VN do not seem to grasp??? His official position is now, "I wanted to be a RB and you should have changed your entire scheme for me!! Now that I don't feel like it, I want to be a TE/WR somewhere else!!!" It never was about "scheme" that is a smokescreen by his "people" in my opinion and we have VN posters that don't like the scheme and glom on to it. Just stop it, it's nonsense.

Its NEVER really about scheme its about Jimmy and Joes. And you can adjust just about any scheme to your talent. Many people have said Hurd needed to be in an I formation so he could run down hill. If that was the real issue they could have lined him up in the Pistol and got much of the same effect and still kept the rest of the offense the same (shot gun, spread, blocking schemes) I don't pretend to know what the real issues were; attitude, personality clashes, egos? Who knows? But the issues the Vols are having ain't scheme. They just need to get back to playing fundamentally sound football which means line up correctly, block, tackle, win your 1 on 1 and don't turn the ball over. I mean dang if they would just play clean football (limited penalties, no turn overs) they will win out.

 

[hndog609]

Well there's scheme being at fault and there's scheme not necessarily playing to one's strengths. For some time now I'd given up on the idea that Hurd is as athletic as many (D4H, etc) have made him out to be. Even if you throw out this entire season we still have a sample size of 26 games and 467 carries. I've never seen the speed/explosiveness some people attributed to Hurd.

Now, if you qualify your perspective for "a guy that size" it changes a bit. He's a pretty impressive physical specimen but to work in the RB context his skill set needs more help.

 

[Vol Catdaddy]

He averaged 4.7 yards per carry for 2014 and 2015, put himself in position to be the all time leading rusher at UT, ran the ball well on some of the nation's most potent run defenses, built a national profile in a conference loaded with standout running backs, and was hyped to the nines in the offseason . . .

I know everyone here wants to adjust the blocking, play calling, and backfield personnel based on which RB is in the game. That sounds like a real fun adventure with our current offensive line. I don't remember any scenario where something like that worked. I'd prefer to keep the scheme that Kamara/Kelly are thriving in, rather than alter everything for a guy who is taking himself out of games.

Great coaches have scheme's, but also fit their scheme around their players. Not comparing Jalen Hurd to Adriene Peterson, but I remember OU using a one back scheme, but when AP aka All day came in what did they do began using a full back? You may ask why glad you asked, HE WAS MORE EFFECTIVE WITH IT! isn't that ironic! So shocking that a smooth runner, being 6'4 240Ilbs with speed needs a fb and has shown game breaking ability. Butch is fulmer 2.0 Fullmer went to a spread scheme when everything on the offense side of the ball was pro style when he Arian Foster , Monterio Hardesty , and Ainge! Still burns me up when we lost to UCLA when we had the better team! Butch has major problems with this team.

 

[butchna]

:lolabove:
I see that we have complete amnesia on Hurd's first two years at Tennessee now.
:good!:

You put up the STATS that contradict your title! :w00t: Who's not seeing what?

 

[kamoshika]

He averaged 4.7 yards per carry for 2014 and 2015, put himself in position to be the all time leading rusher at UT, ran the ball well on some of the nation's most potent run defenses, built a national profile in a conference loaded with standout running backs, and was hyped to the nines in the offseason . . .

Overall, Hurd did a good job while he was here and fully engaged. But 4.7 ypc is nothing to brag about, even in the SEC; it's just OK. He gained a lot of yards at UT only because he got a lot of carries.

Of the 28 RBs who rushed for more yards than Hurd last year, 27 had a higher per-carry average than his 4.65.

Including QBs, the average yards per rush nationally last year was 4.50 and in the SEC, 4.56. Hurd averaged 4.4 ypc in conference games last year.

In his first 2 seasons against FBS opponents, Hurd rushed for 3 yards or less on almost 58% of his carries.

I'm glad he became a Vol and appreciate his positive contributions, but let's not make him out to be more than he was: a very solid (though not extraordinary) SEC RB.

 

[hmhawk]

Yeah, I like how the scheme wasn't working. Only going to set the rushing record in under 3 years. This scheme sure sux. Need to dust off the old dinosaur I-formation. I hear it's all the rage now.

 

[butchna]

Yeah, I like how the scheme wasn't working. Only going to set the rushing record in under 3 years. This scheme sure sux. Need to dust off the old dinosaur I-formation. I hear it's all the rage now.

He compared stats of three different running backs. Two that fit the scheme had markedly better ypc. Hurd fought his way for two years to accomplish his stats...key word FOUGHT. Kamara/Kelly don't seem to have the same per carry struggle...stats don't lie. We get it...you hate the I-formation. Good news for you, the back that fit it to a T just left the team. :salute:

 

[Rifleman]

You put up the STATS that contradict your title! :w00t: Who's not seeing what?

My stats show that 67% of our running backs aren't having trouble. Rather than adapt things to try and get a 3.7 ypc guy up to mediocrity, why not just let the majority of our running backs who are doing just fine take that load?

Frankly, my main beef with the coaches is not giving Kamara and Kelly the bulk of the carries once it was clear that Hurd had grown disinterested in running hard.

 

[QuickSmurf]

I'm not defending him leaving but our scheme doesn't suit a rb of his size. Draws where he can't build up any momentum or handing him the ball and forcing him to make one or two cuts before he even gets to the line of scrimmage.

He's a big back. Give him the ball with some momentum and let him run downfield. Our scheme forces him to go left right too much. Fine for Kamara, but not Hurd.

Ok if thats true, could he run the ball in the NFL?

 

[WebbCobb]

I agree that something like the "I" would've suited him better. However, at one point you have to recognize that he is slow to get going, has poor vision, runs upright, isn't great laterally, and has a tendency to bounce things outside thereby negating his size/strength advantage.

To be fair, he is also big, strong, relatively fast and excels in pass protection.

Add that all up and I'd rather have someone else as my starter, regardless of scheme.

 

[butchna]

My stats show that 67% of our running backs aren't having trouble. Rather than adapt things to try and get a 3.7 ypc guy up to mediocrity, why not just let the majority of our running backs who are doing just fine take that load?

Frankly, my main beef with the coaches is not giving Kamara and Kelly the bulk of the carries once it was clear that Hurd had grown disinterested in running hard.

My apologies then, your thread's title reads like a calling out of people who DO think the scheme doesn't fit Hurd's talents. Maybe use "don't" and it would have been less confusing? :dunno:

 

[QuickSmurf]

All that shows is Kamara/Kelly performs better in this SCHEME. Sure the title of your thread is correct? :huh:

This running scheme isn't any different than Bama, OSU, Clemson etc etc etc

 

[hmhawk]

He compared stats of three different running backs. Two that fit the scheme had markedly better ypc. Hurd fought his way for two years to accomplish his stats...key word FOUGHT. Kamara/Kelly don't seem to have the same per carry struggle...stats don't lie. We get it...you hate the I-formation. Good news for you, the back that fit it to a T just left the team. :salute:

I didn't mean for it to come out that way. All I was saying is he had 2 good years with the scheme and all of a sudden he wants to go old school. He gave up the FIGHT. Threw in the towel, raised the white flag-- however you want to phrase it he quit fighting. 5 more games and a rushing record under his belt and he was possibly NFL bound. Wish him success at the combines and finds a pro team still using the I.

 

[Rifleman]

I'm not defending him leaving but our scheme doesn't suit a rb of his size. Draws where he can't build up any momentum or handing him the ball and forcing him to make one or two cuts before he even gets to the line of scrimmage.

He's a big back. Give him the ball with some momentum and let him run downfield. Our scheme forces him to go left right too much. Fine for Kamara, but not Hurd.

If he can jump on an incline treadmill at 23+ mph and run for a duration of time, then why in the holy hell does he need a long wind up to have any speed at the line of scrimmage? That makes no sense whatsoever.

His real problem is that he can't change directions and can't see running lanes. Bringing a fullback to draw another run stopper into the box ain't going to fix none of that.

The kid didn't want to play tight end at Bama, so he came here on Butch's promise to play him at RB in Butch's offense--not in Hayden Fry's offense--and now he's leaving because he wants to play tight end in what will certainly will be a spread run and gun west coast offense (he sure as hell can't play tight end in the B1G). . .

just trying hard to see how that's a problem with the scheme that we need to fix?