For those still on the fence about Jones....

[DjVFL0773]

Dorian Banks just Decommitted from UT 5 minutes ago via Twitter...

 

[onevol74]

Did I say that we were still waiting to see improvement in a general sense or specific sense? If you took it or I suggested the general sense then we had a miscommunication.

Recruiting has improved significantly even once attrition is accounted for... which I still think is too high. However, my concern isn't that progress isn't being made in building the roster but the rate of building is being slowed by either bringing the wrong guys (maybe adjust the profile) or somehow mishandling relationships once they're on the team. Bottom line, this is the most talented roster UT has had IMO since at least 2005... that's certainly a huge improvement.

In my many years of following the Vols about as closely as I do now... I have NEVER seen a HC develop players better than Jones. The NFL knock on Fulmer is that he put a bunch of talented but underdeveloped players in the draft. Win or not, I do not believe that will ever be said of Jones. I think player development in every respect is exceptional under Jones.

Fulmer was a good old boy and rep'd the program that way. He had friends but also some enemies. Jones seems to be overwhelmingly loved in every corner- fans, alums, former players, media,... everyone. He is a very likable guy which is difficult for a driven, type A personality. I like him in no small part because he sounds like my old HS coach. (He was extraordinarily successful btw). The amazing thing to me is that both Fulmer and Majors seem to like Jones. That's an accomplishment in itself.

IMHO, Jones owns Spurrier. I like that very much. The reason is similar to why Grant beat Lee. One Union general after another let Lee lead them around. He chose when and where to fight. He basically fooled them with smoke and mirrors. Grant disciplined the Union army, trained them, and then marched on Richmond. He ignored Lee's attempt to turn him. Jones isn't worried about out-scheming or out-playcalling Spurrier. That's where most coaches lose with him. Jones focuses on execution. His guys have out-executed Spurrier's guys. That's why UT has won... and I believe he will continue to beat SOS.

I believe there are others out there that to one degree or another are going to fall to Jones the same way. Richt without any doubt. Probably McElwain though after hearing a press conference from him the other day... I'm not sure his days in G'ville are long. I thought their recruiting was off due to the turmoil... but it could be because the guy has no personality.

Jones sells UT almost as good as Fulmer... which is saying a ton.

He has done extremely well with all angles of off-field issues. He is disciplining the program in a way that should be effective long term.


All this said.... it could still come crashing down if he doesn't start getting wins on game day. That's my concern. That when it comes right down to it, he can't match wits/systems with the very best of the best. The SEC's coaching talent is as high as its player talent. You have to be great in every category to win... I can't off the fence until Jones turns all of the great things he's done into WINS.

Excellent post. I am a UT fan and not a Jones Kool-ade drinker. I am happy he is here and the job he is doing in bringing the program back up. But if he does not pull some wins this year he will find he has little to sell for the future. Just the way the game works. Other coaches will be pointing out his warts on the recruiting trail.

 

[NashVol11]

If Franklin was still at Vandy, would Butch still be looking for his first .500 season? Idk, and fortunately we didn't have to find out. But so far he's 5-7 and 6-6, so all the talk of National and SEC championships seems to be premature to me. In order to justify that kind of talk, this season there needs to be tangible proof in the W-L column.

The East is as bad as it's been in forever. Are things perfect with our depth? No. But it's time to actually win meaningful games. I understand why everyone has been patient through the first two years, but games like Florida and Missouri need to start being wins.

Exactly.

 

[chargervol]

After reading much of this thread, some things have become obvious.
Jones is respected in most, if not all, categories off the field.
We are in the spotlight again and expected to win.

Because of those things, I predict him to be here a couple of more years for certain.
I have been honest about not being convinced of his X and O play calling, simply because it's "wait and see" for when he has his talent in place.

So if we are in wait mode, I'm going to enjoy being relevant again and not waste my time on the negatives. If he truly has a deficiency in game day coaching, it will come forth and be handled. For now, he's done well enough with everything else, I've shifted the burden of proof (for me). If he sucks, it'll be shown. Until then, I'm feeling optimistic and will enjoy the upcoming season.

 

[EZE]

Did I say that we were still waiting to see improvement in a general sense or specific sense? If you took it or I suggested the general sense then we had a miscommunication.

Recruiting has improved significantly even once attrition is accounted for... which I still think is too high. However, my concern isn't that progress isn't being made in building the roster but the rate of building is being slowed by either bringing the wrong guys (maybe adjust the profile) or somehow mishandling relationships once they're on the team. Bottom line, this is the most talented roster UT has had IMO since at least 2005... that's certainly a huge improvement.

In my many years of following the Vols about as closely as I do now... I have NEVER seen a HC develop players better than Jones. The NFL knock on Fulmer is that he put a bunch of talented but underdeveloped players in the draft. Win or not, I do not believe that will ever be said of Jones. I think player development in every respect is exceptional under Jones.

Fulmer was a good old boy and rep'd the program that way. He had friends but also some enemies. Jones seems to be overwhelmingly loved in every corner- fans, alums, former players, media,... everyone. He is a very likable guy which is difficult for a driven, type A personality. I like him in no small part because he sounds like my old HS coach. (He was extraordinarily successful btw). The amazing thing to me is that both Fulmer and Majors seem to like Jones. That's an accomplishment in itself.

IMHO, Jones owns Spurrier. I like that very much. The reason is similar to why Grant beat Lee. One Union general after another let Lee lead them around. He chose when and where to fight. He basically fooled them with smoke and mirrors. Grant disciplined the Union army, trained them, and then marched on Richmond. He ignored Lee's attempt to turn him. Jones isn't worried about out-scheming or out-playcalling Spurrier. That's where most coaches lose with him. Jones focuses on execution. His guys have out-executed Spurrier's guys. That's why UT has won... and I believe he will continue to beat SOS.

I believe there are others out there that to one degree or another are going to fall to Jones the same way. Richt without any doubt. Probably McElwain though after hearing a press conference from him the other day... I'm not sure his days in G'ville are long. I thought their recruiting was off due to the turmoil... but it could be because the guy has no personality.

Jones sells UT almost as good as Fulmer... which is saying a ton.

He has done extremely well with all angles of off-field issues. He is disciplining the program in a way that should be effective long term.


All this said.... it could still come crashing down if he doesn't start getting wins on game day. That's my concern. That when it comes right down to it, he can't match wits/systems with the very best of the best. The SEC's coaching talent is as high as its player talent. You have to be great in every category to win... I can't off the fence until Jones turns all of the great things he's done into WINS.

I can agree with this. But, I would point out that, to date, he has won about the right amount of games given the roster issues he inherited in year 1, and the amount of youth on the field in year 2. He should do better this year than last, by around 1-3 wins, because of the talent he has recruited. But, we still have a lot of young players, so I am willing to be patient while the roster matures. Even so, we should win around 2 more games than last season, but that will not make or break it for me.

As I remarked above, though, the time to really assess EVERYTHING he has done will be at the end of 2016. If we aren't making serious waves by then, there probably will be some right concerns.

 

[HoptownVol]

Dorian Banks just Decommitted from UT 5 minutes ago via Twitter...

No room.

 

[checkerboards09]

It doesn't matter if Vandy came into the 2013 more talented or not. They were missing their entire starting secondary after the last starter was ejected early in the game and we damn near literally let one guy beat us, Jordan Mathews, by running the same WR screen route about 95% of the time. Whether they had more talent or not (and I don't believe they did), we had the game under control and gacked it up late by allowing a mediocre team to go the full length of the field when OUR season was on the line, on OUR home field. And they did it with 1 WR and no running game. It was a bad loss.

Vandy has never been more talented, so just go ahead and throw that out the window. That game was all mental in '13.

 

[sjt18]

I can agree with this. But, I would point out that, to date, he has won about the right amount of games given the roster issues he inherited in year 1, and the amount of youth on the field in year 2. He should do better this year than last, by around 1-3 wins, because of the talent he has recruited. But, we still have a lot of young players, so I am willing to be patient while the roster matures. Even so, we should win around 2 more games than last season, but that will not make or break it for me.

I can respect your opinion and do... but disagree. I believe there were 6 or 7 wins in the first year. I can buy the idea that he was making an investment by forcing his system onto personnel who didn't fit it. But there are coaches who would have adapted their system then adjusted back as they got personnel to fit it. I think the UF loss was discouraging... but I predicted that '14 would be a six win season before '13. While some were wildly optimistic, the rest of us recognized the roster losses.

As I remarked above, though, the time to really assess EVERYTHING he has done will be at the end of 2016. If we aren't making serious waves by then, there probably will be some right concerns.

I can respect that in one sense... but everything can be assessed at every point. I think this is an 8 or 9 win year if he coaches well. He has some talent. He's had time to develop much of it. He has good experience. He doesn't have to win a championship or division for me to see good progress... but he can't fall back to 7 or less regular season wins. There are 5 very likely wins. IMO, he clearly has a better roster than MU or USCe. I think UF's OL gives UT a decisive advantage. I'm not as convinced of Ark as most. I do not believe they should beat UT in K'ville.

While they have a talent advantage, I think UT has a GREAT shot of beating UGA at home. It was close the past two years when Richt enjoyed a wide talent advantage over Jones.

OU is beatable... but I'm concerned. I think UT needs more horsepower to beat Bama.

 

[sjt18]

No room.

That sure looks like the case.

 

[butchna]

Vandy has never been more talented, so just go ahead and throw that out the window. That game was all mental in '13.

Physically we were slow AND injured...so gotta disagree widja. :good!:

 

[EZE]

I can respect your opinion and do... but disagree. I believe there were 6 or 7 wins in the first year. I can buy the idea that he was making an investment by forcing his system onto personnel who didn't fit it. But there are coaches who would have adapted their system then adjusted back as they got personnel to fit it. I think the UF loss was discouraging... but I predicted that '14 would be a six win season before '13. While some were wildly optimistic, the rest of us recognized the roster losses.



I can respect that in one sense... but everything can be assessed at every point. I think this is an 8 or 9 win year if he coaches well. He has some talent. He's had time to develop much of it. He has good experience. He doesn't have to win a championship or division for me to see good progress... but he can't fall back to 7 or less regular season wins. There are 5 very likely wins. IMO, he clearly has a better roster than MU or USCe. I think UF's OL gives UT a decisive advantage. I'm not as convinced of Ark as most. I do not believe they should beat UT in K'ville.

While they have a talent advantage, I think UT has a GREAT shot of beating UGA at home. It was close the past two years when Richt enjoyed a wide talent advantage over Jones.

OU is beatable... but I'm concerned. I think UT needs more horsepower to beat Bama.

I think every game on the schedule is winnable for the first time in forever. But, eight of them are loseable, too.

We aren't in disagreement over this season. I think we should win around two more games overall, which would be 9-4. Where we differ is that I am willing to cut some slack if there are any key injuries. I'm also not going to sweat which games are wins and which are losses. If we get to 9 wins, we should all be ecstatic. 8 isn't a catastrophe. 7 would be disappointing, but not worth starting over with a new staff.

These numbers include the bowl game.

 

[NashVol11]

I don't get why we include bowl games. So much depends on the opponent, and for the most part, they don't really matter. If we go 7-5 or worse this year, I'll certainly be disappointed. Winning the bowl game to get to "8 wins" won't change that.

 

[sjt18]

I think every game on the schedule is winnable for the first time in forever. But, eight of them are loseable, too.

In the context that you are talking, I'd say only 7 are "loseable". I think the UK love is unfounded.

We aren't in disagreement over this season. I think we should win around two more games overall, which would be 9-4. Where we differ is that I am willing to cut some slack if there are any key injuries. I'm also not going to sweat which games are wins and which are losses. If we get to 9 wins, we should all be ecstatic. 8 isn't a catastrophe. 7 would be disappointing, but not worth starting over with a new staff.

These numbers include the bowl game.

I'd like to see 8 regular season games. I'm not that stuck on a W in the bowl game. Let's win in the SEC then the rest will take care of itself.

There would have to be several more injuries for me to back off of 8. The reason I say that is probably because I have less respect for MU and USCe than most. Injuries would likely hurt late more than early... and those are late opponents.

 

[EZE]

In the context that you are talking, I'd say only 7 are "loseable". I think the UK love is unfounded.


I'd like to see 8 regular season games. I'm not that stuck on a W in the bowl game. Let's win in the SEC then the rest will take care of itself.

There would have to be several more injuries for me to back off of 8. The reason I say that is probably because I have less respect for MU and USCe than most. Injuries would likely hurt late more than early... and those are late opponents.

I think Mizzou has been doing it with smoke and mirrors, too. Their run will end and they will slide to the bottom-half soon.

Spurrier is always dangerous, but age seems to be catching up with him.

 

[nashvols1]

Let him win only six games this year and see what happens!

 

[sjt18]

I think Mizzou has been doing it with smoke and mirrors, too. Their run will end and they will slide to the bottom-half soon.

Spurrier is always dangerous, but age seems to be catching up with him.

Jones has SOS's number. His focus on execution over schemes and playcalling has always been an effective counter to Spurrier's "brilliance". He's not bluffed nor can Spurrier get into his head.

IMO, that's why Spurrier couldn't cut it in the NFL.

 

[VolFan4Life87]

Let him win only six games this year and see what happens!

Couch fires

 

[UTblood4life]

inclusive of the bowl game (so - 13 games) jones has to win 9 games this year to "impress" me. If we win 8 i'll be satisfied, 7 i'll be a little perplexed - unless there are significant injuries that alter the course of the season, 6 or less and jones will have to pull a rabbit out of his hat in 2016.

👍👍👍👍👍👍

 

[checkerboards09]

Jones has SOS's number. His focus on execution over schemes and playcalling has always been an effective counter to Spurrier's "brilliance". He's not bluffed nor can Spurrier get into his head.

IMO, that's why Spurrier couldn't cut it in the NFL.

Now Spurrier knows how it feels to get the s*** end of the deal. I love it.

 

[Philsosophy]

As we all know, WINS are what make or break a coaching career. I happen to still be one of those on the fence about Jones until I see results on the field, which should be understandable. Looking at the big picture, for me, 3-1 with the loss being to Oklahoma or 4-0 would get me on the wagon 100%. Jones has been incredible with everything else, he's bringing in the talent, etc., but the big wins gotta start early this year with the Gators being right there. For those still in doubt, what point in the season would get you fully on board?

I'm already drinking the orange koolaid, but a 4-1 or 5-0 start is when I'm hopping on board due to my expectations. A loss to either Georgia or Oklahoma would be fine, but losses to both not so much. The bulldogs have barely been squeaking out wins against us over the past few years, and with the team being significantly better and more experienced, on top of the venue being at Neyland, I fully expect the dogs to go home unhappy. Out of those two games, OU is the game i'm much more concerned about. And oh yeah, the game at the swamp better be a big orange W or else I'm not hopping on the wagon until 2016, that game is a dealbreaker. I'd rather be 3-2 with a win over UF than 4-1 with a loss in Gainseville.

 

[advancedrescue27]

What I hope to see other than wins is the attack strategy. Last year it seemed like we came out the gate in games in attack mode. Then after getting a lead backed off. We started off dominating playing off the other teams weakness then totally went the other direction. I understand game play, you can't expect to do the same play over and over again and have the other team not adjust. It takes a variety of play calls to make the defense respect each threat. I remember feeling that way on multiple games but the Florida game stands out the most. Once we got the lead it was as if the coaching staff felt comfortable and took their foot off the gas. People refer to this as playing not to lose. Once this happened many times last year it gave the opponent a chance to start making strides building momentum.

I can recognize we had major problem areas last year, mainly our OL. So in saying that I also see why we couldn't throw the deep ball because the line wasn't able to hold off the defense getting to the QB before the receiver made it down field. Also the play book couldn't be as deep as it needed to be because we were limited on the options that would be effective. But can't let up on teams if the current game plan is effective, then go completely with a different approach.

So essentially I'm saying I want to see the Vols putting points on the board and in attack mode till the end. All the good teams do that. They score usually way more than their opponent typically unless it's just a really close good game, but not because of effort. Hopefully with more talent we can explorer more elements of attack and complete it all.

One thing that worries me is the thread talking about Debord. From his previous schools forums one common statement by many of them was he played not to lose. This is exactly what my complaints last year was. Hopefully that was then and this is now, more talent also. Guess we shall see.

 

[butchna]

What I hope to see other than wins is the attack strategy. Last year it seemed like we came out the gate in games in attack mode. Then after getting a lead backed off. We started off dominating playing off the other teams weakness then totally went the other direction. I understand game play, you can't expect to do the same play over and over again and have the other team not adjust. It takes a variety of play calls to make the defense respect each threat. I remember feeling that way on multiple games but the Florida game stands out the most. Once we got the lead it was as if the coaching staff felt comfortable and took their foot off the gas. People refer to this as playing not to lose. Once this happened many times last year it gave the opponent a chance to start making strides building momentum.

I can recognize we had major problem areas last year, mainly our OL. So in saying that I also see why we couldn't throw the deep ball because the line wasn't able to hold off the defense getting to the QB before the receiver made it down field. Also the play book couldn't be as deep as it needed to be because we were limited on the options that would be effective. But can't let up on teams if the current game plan is effective, then go completely with a different approach.

So essentially I'm saying I want to see the Vols putting points on the board and in attack mode till the end. All the good teams do that. They score usually way more than their opponent typically unless it's just a really close good game, but not because of effort. Hopefully with more talent we can explorer more elements of attack and complete it all.

One thing that worries me is the thread talking about Debord. From his previous schools forums one common statement by many of them was he played not to lose. This is exactly what my complaints last year was. Hopefully that was then and this is now, more talent also. Guess we shall see.

Wait a minute! A bunch from another fan base isn't impressed with one of their former coaches? :stop: Next you're going to tell us that Georgia thinks Jancek and Martinez suck. :loco:

 

[advancedrescue27]

Wait a minute! A bunch from another fan base isn't impressed with one of their former coaches? :stop: Next you're going to tell us that Georgia thinks Jancek and Martinez suck. :loco:

No, I'm not taking their word as fact. Back when we heard from fans from Jones past say he was good we took their words and got hyped up tho(not the only reason). So previous assessments can't lead to possible future outcomes. If only a few said Debord played not to lose in the past and the rest disagreed then it would lead me to not pay as much attention. It just happened to be a common assessment. And call me crazy but I tend to look at people's previous actions or reputation. That doesn't mean that dictates my view point going forward tho, it simply gives me an idea of possibilities. I do however llike to go into things with a clean slate and make my own opinion. I will go into this season thinking Debord has a clean slate because he truly has it. He hasn't done that with us, so wrong for us to assume that he will have the same tendencies. I don't know the situation he was in if he indeed played not to lose. His play calling could have been dictated by their talent level, or by a head coach, or whatever. Many times you can watch someone who you heard poor reviews of from every corner shine when put in the right place.

Still at the end of the day I'm not hanging all my thought process to their comments. I'm just hopeful to see change from our own experiences from last year with the team we all watch. Last years team was different even though we still have a ton of the same guys, but the coaches are the same. As of the moment I think they will show improvement in the attack vs play not to lose mentality, but will be a comfort to see. Luckily it won't take much longer.

 

[governmentmule]

I'm definitely on the fence about CBJ,he has a lot to show on his play calling on offense,most teams weren't prepared when Dobbs took over,there won't be any teams surprised at what he can do this year,CBJ will have to do a better job

the defense will be the strong side of the game for UT this year,there like the offense though,they both are depending on young players to step up and we all know how well that works in the SEC

coach Mahoney will be the coach with the most pressure on him,he has to show a major improvement on the OL this year and coach DeBord will be right behind him,he is the Offensive Coordinator and we all know that CBJ is the man in charge and how good or how bad the Offense looks this year is all on him

I'm thinking it could be a 6 or maybe 7 wins during the regular season ,anything above that will impress me and show me that CBJ is on the right track

I do think the Vols are a year or two away from all the high expectations that are on them this year,the quality and depth of the OL is the main reason that I think this

 

[checkerboards09]

I'm definitely on the fence about CBJ,he has a lot to show on his play calling on offense,most teams weren't prepared when Dobbs took over,there won't be any teams surprised at what he can do this year,CBJ will have to do a better job

the defense will be the strong side of the game for UT this year,there like the offense though,they both are depending on young players to step up and we all know how well that works in the SEC

coach Mahoney will be the coach with the most pressure on him,he has to show a major improvement on the OL this year and coach DeBord will be right behind him,he is the Offensive Coordinator and we all know that CBJ is the man in charge and how good or how bad the Offense looks this year is all on him

I'm thinking it could be a 6 or maybe 7 wins during the regular season ,anything above that will impress me and show me that CBJ is on the right track

I do think the Vols are a year or two away from all the high expectations that are on them this year,the quality and depth of the OL is the main reason that I think this

Mahoney should have went with Bajakian.