For the ***** whiners….

#76
#76
sjt18 said:
But they're rankings are cold fact... right?

Truth is these kids are making a tough choice and may even change their minds late in the process. That doesn't reflect on these reporters.
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They don’t rank kids. I don’t know why you just refuse to acknowledge facts. The teams that win the most have the most highest rated players. Please don’t bring up the NFL because that’s irrelevant in college.
 
#77
#77
BigOrangeTrain said:
They don’t rank kids. I don’t know why you just refuse to acknowledge facts. The teams that win the most have the most highest rated players. Please don’t bring up the NFL because that’s irrelevant in college.
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They actually do rank kids. The various sites rank players by collective input from their analysts/insiders. Wiltfong probably has as heavy an influence on a ranking as anyone on that site.
 
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#78
#78
GregAmsler said:
They actually do rank kids. The various sites rank players by collective input from their analysts/insiders. Wiltfong probably has as heavy an influence on a ranking as anyone on that site.
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Well yeah. I mean Wiltfong is "Director of Football Recruiting" at the largest of the recruiting sites. His ranking opinion could change a recruit's future.
 
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#79
#79
ConwayFitty said:
Well yeah. I mean Wiltfong is "Director of Football Recruiting" at the largest of the recruiting sites. His ranking opinion could change a recruit's future.
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Exactly. And so, if we’re gonna put stock in his ranking of a recruit, seems like we should put stock in his forecast of where that recruit will end up.
 
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#80
#80
Weezer said:
There's a dirty joke here, but I'm going to refrain from making it.
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There's a funny story about that. My birthday is June 18th, my wife wanted to take me out for it, and we ended up going to a restaurant in Chattanooga called Hana. It's a Japanese cuisine place, and unknown to me, my wife informed the staff that it was my 69th birthday. When we were seated, the chef comes out, and for anyone who has never been to a restaurant like this, the food is prepared on the grill right in front of you. Well, our chef had a ball making all kinds of references to that special number during the food preparation. It was a great evening and something I will treasure.
 
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#81
#81
We can do research from now til eternity, and come up with different results from different sources if we so choose. I have seen articles from doctors who believe we are too clean so our immune system is not as strong as it could be. Kids don't play in the dirt anymore, hand sanitizer is used every time we touch anything, and so forth and so on. We build our immune system through contact with things that are foreign to our bodies. Not trying to start an ongoing debate with you. Your opinion differs from mine, but that's your right. So be it.
 
#82
#82
GregAmsler said:
Exactly. And so, if we’re gonna put stock in his ranking of a recruit, seems like we should put stock in his forecast of where that recruit will end up.
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Putting stock into an evaluation of potential talent and where a kid might end up going to school are totally different.
 
#83
#83
please-god-just-let-this-end.gif
 
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#85
#85
BigOrangeTrain said:
They don’t rank kids. I don’t know why you just refuse to acknowledge facts. The teams that win the most have the most highest rated players. Please don’t bring up the NFL because that’s irrelevant in college.
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I don't know why YOU don't acknowledge facts. There are TONS of 3* players out there with just as much talent as the 4/5* guys as you drool over. There simply are. They are harder to identify but likely easier to recruit.

And those 4/5* rankings are often "self-fulfilling". The recruiting sites follow who is recruiting who. Saban finds great talent. He's proven himself to be an elite talent evaluator. He influences the guys who rate players... but he does NOT find EVERY great talent.

I'm really not sure how a reasonably intelligent person can't get this. I'm not knocking the kids who get high ratings. Their success rate on 5* is pretty good. It is decent on 4* if you use the draft as a measuring stick. So if you get 4/5* players in bunches then there's a good chance you are getting talent. OTOH, the lack of "stars" does NOT mean that you are getting a bunch of no talent bums. The recruiting sites are FAR from infallible.

The most ridiculous thing about your faith in these ratings... is that they don't even try to produce comprehensively accurate rankings. You act as if they do. They artificially limit the number of 4/5* rankings they award.
 
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#86
#86
BigOrangeTrain said:
Putting stock into an evaluation of potential talent and where a kid might end up going to school are totally different.
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LOL... what a cop out. You just claimed that rankings were an ironclad predictor of who was going to win.

There is a difference to note there. Outside of Bama and a small group of others who essentially select who they want... recruiting rankings aren't a consistent predictor of who will win a particular match up. If your "logic" held then you almost wouldn't have to play the games. You'd just compare recruiting rankings.
 
#87
#87
sjt18 said:
I don't know why YOU don't acknowledge facts. There are TONS of 3* players out there with just as much talent as the 4/5* guys as you drool over. There simply are. They are harder to identify but likely easier to recruit.

And those 4/5* rankings are often "self-fulfilling". The recruiting sites follow who is recruiting who. Saban finds great talent. He's proven himself to be an elite talent evaluator. He influences the guys who rate players... but he does NOT find EVERY great talent.

I'm really not sure how a reasonably intelligent person can't get this. I'm not knocking the kids who get high ratings. Their success rate on 5* is pretty good. It is decent on 4* if you use the draft as a measuring stick. So if you get 4/5* players in bunches then there's a good chance you are getting talent. OTOH, the lack of "stars" does NOT mean that you are getting a bunch of no talent bums. The recruiting sites are FAR from infallible.

The most ridiculous thing about your faith in these ratings... is that they don't even try to produce comprehensively accurate rankings. You act as if they do. They artificially limit the number of 4/5* rankings they award.
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The real issue is trying to determine where they are In the developmental arc. If a 4 or 5* has reached their peek in development then it would be better to find the 3* who has a much better developmental arc. This is where a coaching staff earns their money.
 
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#89
#89
Pridedad said:
The real issue is trying to determine where they are In the developmental arc. If a 4 or 5* has reached their peek in development then it would be better to find the 3* who has a much better developmental arc. This is where a coaching staff earns their money.
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That's a great point.
 
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#90
#90
Starchief13VFL said:
For all the folks who count stars are are constantly disappointed
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Go ahead and compile a list of all the teams averaging 3 star players that have won national championships with the "right" players and post them up here to support your argument. Hate to break it to you but you can be highly rated and be the "right" guy.
 
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#91
#91
sjt18 said:
I don't know why YOU don't acknowledge facts. There are TONS of 3* players out there with just as much talent as the 4/5* guys as you drool over. There simply are. They are harder to identify but likely easier to recruit.

And those 4/5* rankings are often "self-fulfilling". The recruiting sites follow who is recruiting who. Saban finds great talent. He's proven himself to be an elite talent evaluator. He influences the guys who rate players... but he does NOT find EVERY great talent.

I'm really not sure how a reasonably intelligent person can't get this. I'm not knocking the kids who get high ratings. Their success rate on 5* is pretty good. It is decent on 4* if you use the draft as a measuring stick. So if you get 4/5* players in bunches then there's a good chance you are getting talent. OTOH, the lack of "stars" does NOT mean that you are getting a bunch of no talent bums. The recruiting sites are FAR from infallible.

The most ridiculous thing about your faith in these ratings... is that they don't even try to produce comprehensively accurate rankings. You act as if they do. They artificially limit the number of 4/5* rankings they award.
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You seem to be fighting a lot of strawmen here. No one is saying that some 3* are not better than rated or will later develop into elite players (hard to predict growth spurts, weight gain, etc).

No one is saying recruiting sites are infallible. The point is their system is good and works, and it's fair to assume that the more 4* and 5* players you get, the better your program will be overall. Because the higher the star rating, the more likely it is that the player will work out.
 
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#92
#92
Volfan76 said:
Go ahead and compile a list of all the teams averaging 3 star players that have won national championships with the "right" players and post them up here to support your argument. Hate to break it to you but you can be highly rated and be the "right" guy.
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Idk why were complaining about star ratings or anything right now. Tennessee is on pace to have a top ten class. Also it’s early in the cycle and kids will be adjusted as well.
 
#94
#94
Vol8188 said:
You seem to be fighting a lot of strawmen here. No one is saying that some 3* are not better than rated or will later develop into elite players (hard to predict growth spurts, weight gain, etc).
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Not at all. You have some who are in an outright panic right now because UT isn't getting 4/5* players... or might not. They're SURE that UT cannot compete without them. My simple point is that there is talent out there not labeled 4/5* that you can win with.... that may be just as talented as those players that cause some here to drool then cry.

No one is saying recruiting sites are infallible. The point is their system is good and works, and it's fair to assume that the more 4* and 5* players you get, the better your program will be overall. Because the higher the star rating, the more likely it is that the player will work out.
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You aren't. But "no one" is not true.

And to your main point, do the successful teams follow the ratings or do the ratings follow recruiters with successful history in recruiting and on Saturday? Do you think Saban cares about what 247 thinks? Do you think 247 cares about what Saban thinks?
 
#95
#95
2 maybe 3 maybe only ones i can remember in my lifetime are maybe Bo Jackson and Hershel Walker. And that was before star ratings....
 
#98
#98
BigALWiLson said:
Who was the last true 5 star who came to college ready for the NFL ?
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At UT? Probably Hurd... then he got coached down. Before that probably Berry.

Pretty depressing looking at UT's 5* players since Berry.

LOL... I didn't remember until I saw it but Rivals actually had Tillman rated 2*.
 
#99
#99
sjt18 said:
Not at all. You have some who are in an outright panic right now because UT isn't getting 4/5* players... or might not. They're SURE that UT cannot compete without them. My simple point is that there is talent out there not labeled 4/5* that you can win with.... that may be just as talented as those players that cause some here to drool then cry.


You aren't. But "no one" is not true.

And to your main point, do the successful teams follow the ratings or do the ratings follow recruiters with successful history in recruiting and on Saturday? Do you think Saban cares about what 247 thinks? Do you think 247 cares about what Saban thinks?
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Arriving at the same conclusion is not a sign of conspiracy. No one would claim the sites follow Texas A&M anymore than they do the rest of the SEC (minus Vandy). Yet, A&M just had a number one class.

Yes, people should be worried about the number of 4/5 star players that we have, because it's proven to be a good indicator of success. No indicator is perfect, but good luck winning at an elite level without consistently landing top 5-10 classes.
 
#100
#100
Otherwise stars require development..... to get where they want to be. Some staffs get through better to kids like Saban, Kirby. You work and grind every day under those type of coaches and you get your ass chewed when you screw up. It makes you accountable and a better player. Yes they get a lot of talent because they get the most out of it. Heupel has proven he can make the best of even a mediocre roster offensively. The point is none of the 5 stars are guaranteed without putting in max effort on all spectrums. Talent alone doesn't do that.
 
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