For anyone thinking Butch does not deserve a raise! (Facts)

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#226
#226
Weezer said:
I would not be mad at Hart for refusing to give him a raise at this point. He hasn't earned it yet. The situation would leave me frustrated, but the person I'd be mad at is Butch. Butch has said this is where he wants to be. If that's true, he'll stay. If he leaves, then that means he's been lying to everyone. He's making more than enough to live a comfortable life. He's not struggling financially. Either he's a man of his word, or he's not.
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You sir are delusional. He is not going to get 4+ million. 500k per year is like a 10k raise for you. Why are you all having such a hard time understanding this!
 
#227
#227
Weezer said:
I would not be mad at Hart for refusing to give him a raise at this point. He hasn't earned it yet. The situation would leave me frustrated, but the person I'd be mad at is Butch. Butch has said this is where he wants to be. If that's true, he'll stay. If he leaves, then that means he's been lying to everyone. He's making more than enough to live a comfortable life. He's not struggling financially. Either he's a man of his word, or he's not.
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By the way I doubt you even make 65.5k per year!
 
#228
#228
Smokey1210 said:
Seriously! To Michigan? You you all have no clue why Hart stepped up with money. What if butch was intrested(probably the only job he would consider). You pay an extra 500k to make sure that does not happen. If any fan base understands this it should be ours! Remember Kiffin told Hanilton he would be intrested if USC called. It's not like he told the fan base the same thing. You all are absolutely wearing blinders just because you want your side to be right.
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Kiffin would've taken the job regardless. SoCal was his home. It is the same as you being the coach at say Wisconsin, then getting offered the Tennessee job... Everyone of us would take it, no matter what Wisconsin tried to do...

The Kiffin situation is not comparable here, unless Michigan got Jones. In that case, no amount of money would probably stop him from leaving...
 
#230
#230
sanddune50 said:
So recruiting plays no role in the success of a program? News to me. I also like how you use the glorified 5 year old tactic of 'I know you are but what am I'.

Didn't realize Alabama was in the east. You know them. The #1 team in the nation. As for the UGA game under Dooley's time here, you picked one game. Dooley's teams generally folded after halftime and regressed as the season wore on. Butch's teams with Dooley's players compete for 60 minutes throughout the entire season. Again, you would have to know what you are watching to catch that.

Man crush? How about, I'm not idiot and realize that coaching carousels mean starting over and ensuring that the Vols will remain a below .500 team for a long time. See when you are casual fan and have a grapefruit for a brain, you don't tend to grasp the fallout of your line of thinking. Besides, I didn't realize it was your money being spent to give Butch the raise. Again, quite simple. You don't like Butch or want him around, stay away from Neyland on Saturdays. I assure you no one will care.

And what are you? a parrot? Are you going to repeat everything I say? The difference is I explained and broke down why your knuckles drag against the ground. You just regurgitated what I said hoping it will stick. As for your little question, it's a simpleton question. The goal was to get to a bowl game this year, which most realistic fans and pundits predicted. He did that. I would imagine most people would want to see progress next year which would mean more wins than the Vols had this year. Not a hard concept to understand. At least for those of us not currently drooling on our keyboards.
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So, let me get this straight. By your logic, we should keep Jones, regardless of performance on the field (not saying we shouldn't) simply because of continuity? I guess that argument could have been used to retain Dooley.

As far as the money goes, yeah its ours, any donor, contributor or season ticket holder can lay claim. Its easy to spend somebody else money.

Recruiting, no coach should get a raise based on recruiting. Being a good recruiter is one thing, turning those recruits into winners is another. We are paying him to win. Recruiting is part of his job and he is expected to recruit at a high level. I posted this before but it applies here also. You and several others have advocated that he deserves a raise because of his excellent recruiting. Again by your logic we should have gave Kiffin a raise because of the class he signed. What a freakin dumpster fire that would have been.
 
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#231
#231
FLSTF-VOL said:
So, let me get this straight. By your logic, we should keep Jones, regardless of performance on the field (not saying we shouldn't) simply because of continuity? I guess that argument could have been used to retain Dooley.

As far as the money goes, yeah its ours, any donor, contributor or season ticket holder can lay claim. Its easy to spend somebody else money.

Recruiting, no coach should get a raise based on recruiting. Being a good recruiter is one thing, turning those recruits into winners is another. We are paying him to win. Recruiting is part of his job and he is expected to recruit at a high level. I posted this before but it applies here also. You and several others have advocated that he deserves a raise because of his excellent recruiting. Again by your logic we should have gave Kiffin a raise because of the class he signed. What a freakin dumpster fire that would have been.
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:good!:
 
#232
#232
Smokey1210 said:
You sir are delusional. He is not going to get 4+ million. 500k per year is like a 10k raise for you. Why are you all having such a hard time understanding this!
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Why are you having such a hard time understanding that for most posters it has little to do with the amount, but rather that his performance thus far does not merit an increase... period... of any amount? If the team's record is better next year (which should be the primary criteria of a pay increase... not butts in seats) then he should be given a raise.
 
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#233
#233
5-7 and 6-6 in successive seasons and you want to give a guy a raise? You won't stay in business using what others make as a basis for giving your coach a raise.
 
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#234
#234
Smokey1210 said:
Seriously! To Michigan? You you all have no clue why Hart stepped up with money. What if butch was intrested(probably the only job he would consider). You pay an extra 500k to make sure that does not happen. If any fan base understands this it should be ours! Remember Kiffin told Hanilton he would be intrested if USC called. It's not like he told the fan base the same thing. You all are absolutely wearing blinders just because you want your side to be right.
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If he wants the Michigan job, it's probably not about the money. Just like it wasn't when Kiffin went to USC.
 
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#235
#235
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Why are you having such a hard time understanding that for most posters it has little to do with the amount, but rather that his performance thus far does not merit an increase... period... of any amount? If the team's record is better next year (which should be the primary criteria of a pay increase... not butts in seats) then he should be given a raise.
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That really isn't my problem. He gets a pay increase of 100K per year automatically. It's in his contract. I think that's fine... He deserves it. However, if you're telling me he deserves more than Richt, Freeze, or Mullen I'm simply not buying it... I'd rather have any of those three for less money...
 
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#236
#236
If those of you moaning and groaning about 5-7 and 6-6 can't see meaningful improvement in the team then you should probably start watching ice dancing or something because you obviously don't know squat about football.

There is a lot of promising young talent playing a ton of snaps and there's another great class coming in. Regardless of his record at this point, he's done a very good job.

Most of you complainers are probably late to work three times a week and b!tch if you have to put in any overtime.
 
#237
#237
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Why are you having such a hard time understanding that for most posters it has little to do with the amount, but rather that his performance thus far does not merit an increase... period... of any amount? If the team's record is better next year (which should be the primary criteria of a pay increase... not butts in seats) then he should be given a raise.
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Ok so what your saying is his performance has not increased value, has not increased recruiting, not increased APR, has not increased wins, has not increased roster, has not taken us to a bowl which the last coach had not done in two years. It's only based off wins not potential of what is to come? Whatever I am done. Their are too many people that are looking at this with emotion instead of a business mind.
 
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#238
#238
Smokey1210 said:
Ok so what your saying is his performance has not increased value, has not increased recruiting, not increased APR, has not increased wins, has not increased roster, has not taken us to a bowl which the last coach had not done in two years. It's only based off wins not potential of what is to come? Whatever I am done. Their are too many people that are looking at this with emotion instead of a business mind. That the reason I am a DOO of a company and most posters on here are still living paycheck to paycheck. you all are close minded people (not all) just the loudest ones.
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Based strictly on your post above, you would seem to be the one that is the most emotional about this topic. Most of your post above defies normal logic.

- increased value (define how HE has increased value)
- increased recruiting (okay... what are the tangible results of his "increased recruiting" thus far?)
- increased APR (???)
- increased wins (not nearly enough)
- increased roster (again... ??? Are you suggesting he should get a raise because we have more players on the team?)
- has taken us to a bowl which the last coach had not done in two years. (and he did this due to a .09% chance of a miracle happening against SC)
 
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#239
#239
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Based strictly on your post above, you would seem to be the one that is the most emotional about this topic. Most of your post above defies normal logic.

- increased value (define how HE has increased value)
- increased recruiting (okay... what are the tangible results of his "increased recruiting" thus far?)
- increased APR (???)
- increased wins (not nearly enough)
- increased roster (again... ??? Are you suggesting he should get a raise because we have more players on the team?)
- has taken us to a bowl which the last coach had not done in two years. (and he did this due to a .09% chance of a miracle happening against SC)
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I don't get why anyone thinks his recruiting is irreplaceable. There's only been one UT coach in my lifetime who couldn't recruit, and that was because he chose not to put in the effort. UT sells itself in a lot of ways, especially with all the updates on campus lately.
 
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#240
#240
SGMVols said:
I don't get why anyone thinks his recruiting is irreplaceable. There's only been one UT coach in my lifetime who couldn't recruit, and that was because he chose not to put in the effort. UT sells itself in a lot of ways, especially with all the updates on campus lately.
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I actually think recruiting today, with social media, etc. and the massive competition in the SEC, is in fact a very important quality in a coach. However, if they can't transform the top recruiting classes into a top team on the field then it really doesn't matter... see Ron Zook.
 
#241
#241
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Based strictly on your post above, you would seem to be the one that is the most emotional about this topic. Most of your post above defies normal logic.

- increased value (define how HE has increased value)
- increased recruiting (okay... what are the tangible results of his "increased recruiting" thus far?)
- increased APR (???)
- increased wins (not nearly enough)
- increased roster (again... ??? Are you suggesting he should get a raise because we have more players on the team?)
- has taken us to a bowl which the last coach had not done in two years. (and he did this due to a .09% chance of a miracle happening against SC)
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APR is Attendance Per Game. Which isn't all that much.


Everything else is spot on... Not to mention that he took us to a bowl when our division is the weakest it's been in 15 years or so, and STILL could only muster 6 wins...
 
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#242
#242
14VolFan88 said:
APR is Attendance Per Game. Which isn't all that much.


Everything else is spot on... Not to mention that he took us to a bowl when our division is the weakest it's been in 15 years or so, and STILL could only muster 6 wins...
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And couldn't beat Florida despite the luxury of facing the 2 worst UF teams in 30+ years.
 
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#243
#243
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Based strictly on your post above, you would seem to be the one that is the most emotional about this topic. Most of your post above defies normal logic.

- increased value (define how HE has increased value)
- increased recruiting (okay... what are the tangible results of his "increased recruiting" thus far?)
- increased APR (???)
- increased wins (not nearly enough)
- increased roster (again... ??? Are you suggesting he should get a raise because we have more players on the team?)
- has taken us to a bowl which the last coach had not done in two years. (and he did this due to a .09% chance of a miracle happening against SC)
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Nail, on the head. You hit it.:p
 
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#244
#244
SGMVols said:
I don't get why anyone thinks his recruiting is irreplaceable. There's only been one UT coach in my lifetime who couldn't recruit, and that was because he chose not to put in the effort. UT sells itself in a lot of ways, especially with all the updates on campus lately.
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2005: #1
2006: #24
2007: #4
2008: #35
2009: #7
2010: #16
2011: #10
2012: #22
2013: #36
2014: #4
2015(so far): #4

From 2009-2013 we slipped from #7 to #36 in recruiting rankings each year. He managed to land a #4 recruiting class coming off of 3 losing seasons. It's not entirely about the class ranking either. Kiffin had the #7 class in the country, but how many of them were on the team after a year? Two years? It was easy to sell UT coming off of good years. We handed him a burning pile of rubble and he has been turning things around.

MuVFrEy.jpg


Building a program takes time and the right people. If you can't see that recruiting has an effect, then I have nothing for you.

There's some definite improvements in those numbers in the last two years. Pay attention to the Combined experience points and rank that we had this year. One good thing about having so few upperclassmen is that we won't be decimated after this year.

But, UT plays in the hardest conference and doesn't back down when it comes to scheduling tough teams. This argument gets so old because all you do is argue, argue, argue about how the team has improved. You get stats thrown at you; things experts are saying about UT. But then you ignore it all and just go, uhhh hurr durr 5-7, 6-6. Last year we lost by an average of 23 points. This year our average was 13.5 points--and that's with that miserable showing in Oxford.

You'll give him all of the blame for our UGA and UF losses and none of the credit for our OT win against SC? That one was a miracle; not a team winning. That's ridiculous. He deserves the blame and the credit that goes along with an absurdly young team competing against some of the best in the country.
 
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#248
#248
Smokey1210 said:
Ok so what your saying is his performance has not increased value, has not increased recruiting, not increased APR, has not increased wins, has not increased roster, has not taken us to a bowl which the last coach had not done in two years. It's only based off wins not potential of what is to come? Whatever I am done. Their are too many people that are looking at this with emotion instead of a business mind. That the reason I am a DOO of a company and most posters on here are still living paycheck to paycheck. you all are close minded people (not all) just the loudest ones.
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He is getting paid to do all of those things you refer to. NOW! Its his job to do those things. We didn't hire him to maintain, we hired him to progress. That's why there are milestone increases. They are incentives to do better. Hell there are a lot of coach's that have had potential that never lived up to it.

Take Michigan for example and what they have went through with Hoke. Great first season, not so good after that. He had all the potential in the world.

And by the way, I own my on company, have a CFO and if he submitted a proposal to me asking for a pay raise for one of my guys based on your theory, I would fire his ass.
 
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#249
#249
emzeeee said:
2005: #1
2006: #24
2007: #4
2008: #35
2009: #7
2010: #16
2011: #10
2012: #22
2013: #36
2014: #4
2015(so far): #4

From 2009-2013 we slipped from #7 to #36 in recruiting rankings each year. He managed to land a #4 recruiting class coming off of 3 losing seasons. It's not entirely about the class ranking either. Kiffin had the #7 class in the country, but how many of them were on the team after a year? Two years? It was easy to sell UT coming off of good years. We handed him a burning pile of rubble and he has been turning things around.

MuVFrEy.jpg


Building a program takes time and the right people. If you can't see that recruiting has an effect, then I have nothing for you.

There's some definite improvements in those numbers in the last two years. Pay attention to the Combined experience points and rank that we had this year. One good thing about having so few upperclassmen is that we won't be decimated after this year.

But, UT plays in the hardest conference and doesn't back down when it comes to scheduling tough teams. This argument gets so old because all you do is argue, argue, argue about how the team has improved. You get stats thrown at you; things experts are saying about UT. But then you ignore it all and just go, uhhh hurr durr 5-7, 6-6. Last year we lost by an average of 23 points. This year our average was 13.5 points--and that's with that miserable showing in Oxford.

You'll give him all of the blame for our UGA and UF losses and none of the credit for our OT win against SC? That one was a miracle; not a team winning. That's ridiculous. He deserves the blame and the credit that goes along with an absurdly young team competing against some of the best in the country.
Click to expand...


You sound as if we're calling for his firing... I saw nothing there which says he deserves more than his regular raise...
 
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