For anyone thinking Butch does not deserve a raise! (Facts)

[emzeeee]

removed because I'm lazy.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

So Hart did not have more money at AL to gamble on Saban with making him the highest paid coach in College football? ONCE AGAIN! Hart is a business man and he is betting with a lot more money than UK or MO due to having the revenue that Butch is the guy that will bring us back. The risk of losing him could cost us way more than giving him a raise. Why can you all not see the simple economics of what I am trying to say here.

Isn't the point you're trying to make, that this shows Butch's value as a HC because he brings in ticket revenue?

The ticket revenue has nothing to do with proving he's the right guy for the job to begin with, let alone proving he's worthy of a raise. More seats x $ = more revenue.

What if Bama played in a 55k seat stadium (like State does) but Saban still won 3 of 4 NC's and made $6mil? Their stadium revenue would be less than us and Saban's "value" as it relates to ticket revenue would be "worse". But who cares?

And its not simple economics. If Butch is sitting at 7-5 in 2016 and we've given him a raise and contract extension the getting out is going to be tough. I'd hope Hart wouldnt give him a 5th yr for 7-5 cause that's accepting mediocrity but we may be forced to if it breaks the bank to cut ties. In that case it may end up costing more to keep him around.

FTR, Hart wasn't at Bama when Saban was hired and wasn't in charge even when he was there.

 

[emzeeee]

Isn't the point you're trying to make, that this shows Butch's value as a HC because he brings in ticket revenue?

The ticket revenue has nothing to do with proving he's the right guy for the job to begin with, let alone proving he's worthy of a raise. More seats x $ = more revenue.

What if Bama played in a 55k seat stadium (like State does) but Saban still won 3 of 4 NC's and made $6mil? Their stadium revenue would be less than us and Saban's "value" as it relates to ticket revenue would be "worse". But who cares?

And its not simple economics. If Butch is sitting at 7-5 in 2016 and we've given him a raise and contract extension the getting out is going to be tough. I'd hope Hart wouldnt give him a 5th yr for 7-5 cause that's accepting mediocrity but we may be forced to if it breaks the bank to cut ties. In that case it may end up costing more to keep him around.

FTR, Hart wasn't at Bama when Saban was hired and wasn't in charge even when he was there.

Here. I posted it before and deleted it, but it deals more with the seats:

Not that these numbers mean anything, but :

If you divide the numbers he provided by stadium capacity the list goes: School / $ per seat this is ticket sales divided by capacity (salary rank, 1 being most)

1. MS State / $599.10 ps (12)
2. TAMU / $552.13 ps (2)
3. LSU / $491.34 ps (3)
4. Ole Miss / $470.45 ps (9)
5. UGA / $445.30 ps (7)
6. USCe / $444.85 ps (4)
7. UT / $444.09 ps (11)
8. Arkansas / $440.27 ps (6)
9. Auburn / $434.53 ps (5)
10. Florida / $425.75 ps (10)
11. Alabama / $421.33 ps (1)
12. Mizzou / $377.41 ps (8)
13. Vandy / $366 ps (13)
14. UK / $343.76 ps (14)

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Here. I posted it before and deleted it, but it deals more with the seats:

Not that these numbers mean anything, but :

If you divide the numbers he provided by stadium capacity the list goes: School / $ per seat this is ticket sales divided by capacity (salary rank, 1 being most)

1. MS State / $599.10 ps (12)
2. TAMU / $552.13 ps (2)
3. LSU / $491.34 ps (3)
4. Ole Miss / $470.45 ps (9)
5. UGA / $445.30 ps (7)
6. USCe / $444.85 ps (4)
7. UT / $444.09 ps (11)
8. Arkansas / $440.27 ps (6)
9. Auburn / $434.53 ps (5)
10. Florida / $425.75 ps (10)
11. Alabama / $421.33 ps (1)
12. Mizzou / $377.41 ps (8)
13. Vandy / $366 ps (13)
14. UK / $343.76 ps (14)

If you just do capacity (assuming it's full) x $60 x 8 games everyone's ticket revenue per seat should be the same. Everyone's should be $480 per seat for the season or $60 per game.

Even if it's not I still fail to see how this proves a coach's worth.

 

[emzeeee]

If you just do capacity (assuming it's full) x $60 x 8 games everyone's ticket revenue per seat should be the same. Everyone's should be $480 per seat for the season or $60 per game.

Even if it's not I still fail to see how this proves a coach's worth.

The numbers I posted are just the money made per seat in each stadium based on the total revenue posted earlier so they aren't affected by size of stadium. I'm not making any comparisons since I don't have a dog in this fight.

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

After reading through most of this thread I haven't seen many (if any) posts disputing the "facts" of the OP. Rather, it's more a question of how relevant those "facts" are relative to deserving a pay increase.

I would tend to agree with those that place more relevance on wins, bowl games and other tangibles... and Bruce and his agent (perhaps) would likely agree. In other words, I doubt Bruce's contract stipulates that he should receive a bonus based on fan attendance... and if it does then we should have someone else negotiate future contracts.

 

[14VolFan88]

So recruiting plays no role in the success of a program? News to me. I also like how you use the glorified 5 year old tactic of 'I know you are but what am I'.

Didn't realize Alabama was in the east. You know them. The #1 team in the nation. As for the UGA game under Dooley's time here, you picked one game. Dooley's teams generally folded after halftime and regressed as the season wore on. Butch's teams with Dooley's players compete for 60 minutes throughout the entire season. Again, you would have to know what you are watching to catch that.

Man crush? How about, I'm not idiot and realize that coaching carousels mean starting over and ensuring that the Vols will remain a below .500 team for a long time. See when you are casual fan and have a grapefruit for a brain, you don't tend to grasp the fallout of your line of thinking. Besides, I didn't realize it was your money being spent to give Butch the raise. Again, quite simple. You don't like Butch or want him around, stay away from Neyland on Saturdays. I assure you no one will care.

And what are you? a parrot? Are you going to repeat everything I say? The difference is I explained and broke down why your knuckles drag against the ground. You just regurgitated what I said hoping it will stick. As for your little question, it's a simpleton question. The goal was to get to a bowl game this year, which most realistic fans and pundits predicted. He did that. I would imagine most people would want to see progress next year which would mean more wins than the Vols had this year. Not a hard concept to understand. At least for those of us not currently drooling on our keyboards.

Recruiting is about 30% of the battle. You actually have to know how to coach for the other 70%, which whether you want to believe it or not, the verdict is still out..

So 7 wins is ok? Wow! He'll be in his 6th year before he will even get 10 wins then... Whatta coach! Countless coaches can do better than that... If the guy from Colorado State wins the division with Florida in the next couple of years it's going to make you Jones lovers look really bad...



He doesn't DESERVE a raise, he already gets one in his contract. He doesn't need more of a raise than he's already gotten... I think he gets a raise of 100K every year...

 

[emzeeee]

Recruiting is about 30% of the battle. You actually have to know how to coach for the other 70%, which whether you want to believe it or not, the verdict is still out..

So 7 wins is ok? Wow! He'll be in his 6th year before he will even get 10 wins then... Whatta coach! Countless coaches can do better than that... If the guy from Colorado State wins the division with Florida in the next couple of year it's going to make you Jones lovers look really bad...

We just now at the end of Jones' second full year at UT. Chill out.

 

[14VolFan88]

We just now at the end of Jones' second full year at UT. Chill out.

...an again, look at what Freeze did with a 2-10 team his first two years... People can make all the excuses they want about the OL, it's Jones' fault for not starting Dobbs and things might've been different... Freeze didn't even have an All American in his first two years at Ole Miss...

 

[emzeeee]

...an again, look at what Freeze did with a 2-10 team his first two years... People can make all the excuses they want about the OL, it's Jones' fault for not starting Dobbs and things might've been different... Freeze didn't even have an All American in his first two years at Ole Miss...

And according to people who were actually there to see, Dobbs practiced like he played in the Vandy game. With that being the case, I wouldn't start him either. What do you earn as an armchair coach, anyway?

 

[Carl Pickens]

No line on either side? We had the 3rd highest sack combo in the nation with Barnett and Maggit. Two guys who were highly regarded and highly coveted coming into college. Do some of yall just make stuff up to paint a better picture of things.

Meh.....Vols had some pass rush ends, but not one top tier DT to speak of.

 

[Weezer]

I really hate to say this but you, and some others, sound like you're just jealous of the money buTch and the coaching staff he recruited and hired earn.

Our coaches are probably working double the hours that you work, have lots less time with their families and are in a profession with much more pressure and stress than you not to mention the media watching and reporting every move they make.

I do agree that coaches should earn raises and extentions so we have some commonality my friend.

College sports coaching is a totally different animal and takes much more than most jobs do.

1...In college football recruiting DOES matter and if a coaching staff can't recruit top players then the wins just won't come despite coaching knowledge.

buTch and his staff HAVE proven already that they CAN recruit top players to Tennessee.

2...Coaches MUST be able to teach players all the many aspects of playing their positions or top recruits will never get better.

buTch and his staff HAVE proven that they can coach them up pretty fast and the PROOF of that is 23 true freshmen playing already this season and those kids HAVE already made our footVol team better.

3...Every coach deserves the time to get at least 3 or 4 of their recruiting classes on the field and buTch has ONLY ONE recruiting class of HIS on the hill and those true freshmen HAVE made a solid impact already.

His 2nd recruiting class is looking pretty damn awesome too.

Just imagine how many Wins we'll get 2 or 3 more years from now if our recruiting gets better.

FACT is that buTch has already proven alot in a short time and the other FACT is that if we don't pay buTch and his staff well enough another college program WILL come along and offer them a boatload of money to come and turn their football program around like the intelligent people do see happening for our Vols.

I'm not a big fan of Dave Hart but I do think he likes his job as VC and AD at Tennessee and that he's smart enough to know that if he ever wants a better paying job at another college he has to prove that he can turn our Vols around first.

As a die hard Vols fan and a realist...I do NOT see a huge win improvement next season over this season simply because it's going to take a couple more years to get our O line straightened out.

2 years from now I see a big improvement and maybe winning the SEC East or beyond.

I'm simply NOT willing to risk losing buTch and his great coaching/recruiting staff and having to start all over again because I'm too old and I don't want to die before we Win the SEC and maybe a National Championship again.

I can't stand nick saTan but sometimes I wish our Vols had stolen him away from the Miami dolphins and paid him $5 Million per year to see my beloved Vols win a NC or 2 or 3 and maybe more to come before he retires.

YUKKKK, I can't even believe I just typed that, LOL!

#BrickbyBrick...VFL...GBO!!!

For all the hours he puts in, Butch has a job he loves. If he didn't love his job, he wouldn't put in the hours. I'd switch places with him any day of the week.

How many Top 10 classes does Pinkel have at Mizzou? He must be pulling them in every year if recruiting is as important as on the field coaching. My point, I stick by my assertion that recruiting can make a college coach's job easier, but a great coach can coach up the talent he has.

As for winning the SEC or even a NC, Butch is 11-13 in two years. Sure, things are looking a little brighter for the future, but Butch hasn't proven anything, yet. And I'll stress yet. I think he can get it done, but why reward what could happen? Reward what does happen.

 

[butchna]

But....weren't you doing the same thing? :ermm:

Yes it is...but?...you probably don't get it or "you're not really giving an opinion" or something. :dunno:

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

The numbers I posted are just the money made per seat in each stadium based on the total revenue posted earlier so they aren't affected by size of stadium. I'm not making any comparisons since I don't have a dog in this fight.

Sorry, to be clear I wasn't referring to your point about it not having anything to do with the value but the OP's. I did my revenue just based off capacity x ticket $ x 8 games instead of doing actual attendance. If it's done the way I did it, eveyone's per seat revenue would be the exact same assuming every seat was always sold.

 

[f77f00]

I don't think his initial salary was based on being a ~.500 coach and I don't think he deserves a raise at this point.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

And according to people who were actually there to see, Dobbs practiced like he played in the Vandy game. With that being the case, I wouldn't start him either. What do you earn as an armchair coach, anyway?

No one was there though, practices are closed to media and they all say DS much. All we have is the coaches word, including Jancek's who's on record of saying they saw this on defense when preparing for USU and ASU. He didn't seem surprised by his on field performance.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Meh.....Vols had some pass rush ends, but not one top tier DT to speak of.

Got ga, forgot DE's aren't part of the DL

 

[emzeeee]

Sorry, to be clear I wasn't referring to your point about it not having anything to do with the value but the OP's. I did my revenue just based off capacity x ticket $ x 8 games instead of doing actual attendance. If it's done the way I did it, eveyone's per seat revenue would be the exact same assuming every seat was always sold.

Gotcha

 

[14VolFan88]

And according to people who were actually there to see, Dobbs practiced like he played in the Vandy game. With that being the case, I wouldn't start him either. What do you earn as an armchair coach, anyway?

... anyone with a brain knows that with a weak OL, you need to have a quarterback who can run... In the 7-7 passing drills, he didn't look great, doesn't negate the fact he can extend plays with his legs when the pocket collapses after 2 seconds...


I'm confident I make more than you... At 23 years old to boot... If you make more than me,, then put your money where your mouth is and pony up the money for Butch's raise...

 

[emzeeee]

I'm confident I make more than you... At 23 years old to boot... If you make more than me,, then put your money where your mouth is and pony up the money for Butch's raise...

Ha! That's hysterical. A) No one cares what your actual job earns you. B) No you don't.

 

[Smokey1210]

So what everyone is saying if I gather this correctly. None of you all would be mad if Hart chose not to pay Butch a pay small increase to keep him here because UM offered him 4 mil per year? This place would freaking melt down like never before with the same people saying he does not deserve a raise of Hart let him go over a simple Million dollars (yes chump change to the University) if I had another company tell me they would give me and my staff a 25% raise because they believed in my potential and my current employer did not even come back with a small increase I would leave. So would everyone on this site! And don't twist this like you know for a fact that UM did not contact him. No one here does besides Hart and Butch because the AD would have called Hart to request contact. Hart would rather pay a small increase to not have to start over. You all act like Hart is simply giving him a raise for absolutely no reason. BUTCH JONES VALUE IS HIGHER THAN WHAT HE IS GETTING PAID IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL! Hart is not a dumb ass he would not give him the raise if he did not feel he needed too.

 

[vols-1]

So what everyone is saying if I gather this correctly. None of you all would be mad if Hart chose not to pay Butch a pay small increase to keep him here because UM offered him 4 mil per year? This place would freaking melt down like never before with the same people saying he does not deserve a raise of Hart let him go over a simple Million dollars (yes chump change to the University) if I had another company tell me they would give me and my staff a 25% raise because they believed in my potential and my current employer did not even come back with a small increase I would leave. So would everyone on this site! And don't twist this like you know for a fact that UM did not contact him. No one here does besides Hart and Butch because the AD would have called Hart to request contact. Hart would rather pay a small increase to not have to start over. You all act like Hart is simply giving him a raise for absolutely no reason. BUTCH JONES VALUE IS HIGHER THAN WHAT HE IS GETTING PAID IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL! Hart is not a dumb ass he would not give him the raise if he did not feel he needed too.

Coaches change jobs for two reasons. Either they found a lot better job or they are on the hot seat at there current job. Either way a small pay raise won't change the outcome.

 

[LA Vol]

If CBJ is all about the money, he'll go, if offered. We doubled his salary to get him here. We won't bump him 50%+ this year, so if another school offers $4.5M or $5M for an 11-13 record, we'll take the buyout.

If he wants to coach in his home state, he'll go, if offered. We're not in Michigan.

If he wants to coach in an easier conference, he'll go, if offered. We're a founding member of the toughest conference, we have one of the toughest schedules and we play Bama every year. If he doesn't like the pressure of the SEC, we can't fix that.

A small raise is irrelevant in the big picture. CBJ either wants to be here or he doesn't. No sense worrying about it unless he's offered.

 

[Weezer]

So what everyone is saying if I gather this correctly. None of you all would be mad if Hart chose not to pay Butch a pay small increase to keep him here because UM offered him 4 mil per year? This place would freaking melt down like never before with the same people saying he does not deserve a raise of Hart let him go over a simple Million dollars (yes chump change to the University) if I had another company tell me they would give me and my staff a 25% raise because they believed in my potential and my current employer did not even come back with a small increase I would leave. So would everyone on this site! And don't twist this like you know for a fact that UM did not contact him. No one here does besides Hart and Butch because the AD would have called Hart to request contact. Hart would rather pay a small increase to not have to start over. You all act like Hart is simply giving him a raise for absolutely no reason. BUTCH JONES VALUE IS HIGHER THAN WHAT HE IS GETTING PAID IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL! Hart is not a dumb ass he would not give him the raise if he did not feel he needed too.

I would not be mad at Hart for refusing to give him a raise at this point. He hasn't earned it yet. The situation would leave me frustrated, but the person I'd be mad at is Butch. Butch has said this is where he wants to be. If that's true, he'll stay. If he leaves, then that means he's been lying to everyone. He's making more than enough to live a comfortable life. He's not struggling financially. Either he's a man of his word, or he's not.

 

[Smokey1210]

What makes Butch more valuable Richt, Freeze, Bielema, Miles, or Mullen?

Seriously! To Michigan? You you all have no clue why Hart stepped up with money. What if butch was intrested(probably the only job he would consider). You pay an extra 500k to make sure that does not happen. If any fan base understands this it should be ours! Remember Kiffin told Hanilton he would be intrested if USC called. It's not like he told the fan base the same thing. You all are absolutely wearing blinders just because you want your side to be right.