Folks wanting Butch's head

#253
#253
KBVol said:
Not. One. Freaking. Time. Did I say I wanted him fired....along with about 95% of the fans who have been rightly critical of his gameday management practices. You don't know what the hell Youre talking about and, as such, should just move along to something about which you do.
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86% of stats are made up on the spot.
 
#257
#257
I'm not calling for Butch's head but I also don't think he's the greatest coach since Gen. Neyland either. He's proven to be an excellent recruiter but has left something to be desired as a HC.
Right now it all seems to rise and fall on our talent. To me, an average coach can win when his team is more talented than the opp. and generally loses when his team is undermanned. That is exactly what we are doing now. But great coaches will find a way to get his team to win some games they aren't expected to.

To be great you have to win some games where you just straight up out-coach better or equally talented opposition. So far that isn't happening for us. No doubt our arrow is pointing up and I'll take 8-4 and 9-3 seasons over what we've had most of the last decade. But I'd prefer to do better than a John Cooper/Mark Richt. Time will tell but while I think we'll be much improved over what we were due to much better talent, I'm not convinced we have the total package to out talent and out coach most teams which is what it'll take to be a true contender in the future.
 
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#261
#261
Let's just all agree he needs to win big games next year. It seems this whole debate revolves around when he is expected to do that....this year or next. He will be our coach next year and the argument should be settled.
 
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#263
#263
CountVolcula said:
We beat Kentucky and turning out to be a bad Georgia team

Let's pump the breaks on the "we are back"

We aren't back until we beat Bama, Florida, and Georgia on a consistent basis

Beating Kentucky shouldn't be a precursor to greater things
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Just to clarify we rarely have beaten those three consistently as in every year for an extended period.
So if we beat two of the three regularly and all three occasionally then THAT would be a realistic WE'RE BACK IMHO,,,::::
 
#268
#268
CountVolcula said:
"Back" is when any team we play is considered an upset if we lose
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This is a synopsis of the negavol problem right here.

This standard of near perfection has rarely if ever been accomplished by anyone, let alone a team that was led by the worst coach in SEC history three years ago.

These kinds of fans use their team as a substitute for their ego and maintain a distain for anything but a wholly unrealistic perfectionism. The Bama fans who want rid of Saban because they only win and don't always dominate are cut from the same cloth.

Energy vampires.
 
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#269
#269
KBVol said:
Very, very few posters have "wanted Butch's head". 95%+ of his critics have only wanted him to manage the games better....get better at doing that so the wins vs our top rivals will come, because he does everything else so well Sunday to Friday.
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I seem to remember a handful of coaching search threads after the Florida game. So yeah there is a vocal minority that gave up on him
 
#270
#270
It's strange how the better a coach recruits the better he coaches. As long as Butch keeps the top recruiting classes coming the better coach he will be. If you think about it Butch has never had talent like he has now He didn't have four and five star players at Cincy It has to be different coaching average two and three star talent to the very best talent I think he is learning tons this season about being boss of a SEC program and just exactly what it takes to win in the toughest conference 2016 will be year of orange and with another top recruiting class and a year of experience Vols will win the east.
 
#272
#272
docholiday said:
16-17 in 2 years plus. 7-14 SEC record.
numbers don't lie. He is pathetic....You must love living in mediocrity.
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Context is very difficult.

I don't love living in mediocrity, but Im pleased with where we are because I know where we've been and can see where we're headed.

We are on track to have our best season since 2007. If we win out, we will have 5 SEC victories this year. Going back 13 years, that has only happened 5 times, and not once since 2007.

It is imperative that you also Understand that the SEC is far more talented than it was, and that continues an upward trend. For instance, both Kentucky and Vanderbilt have recruited better these past four years than Bama did in 2005. In other words, KY and VU field a better team in 2015 than Bama did in 2005. While we've been hitting reset trying to find the magic sauce, there has been a severe upward trajectory of the talent of our competition (which is important to comprehend when putting things in context).

It wasn't that long ago that we could barely win one SEC game, and all meaningful trend data was down. Now, all trend data is upwards, and it's like people have forgotten how bad things were just 2.5 years ago.

Our talent is improving, our win totals are improving. For the first time since Bush was in office, things are getting better on a year to year basis.

It's a shame that so many have lost the ability to put things in perspective.
 
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#273
#273
OrangeUTopia said:
I'm not calling for Butch's head but I also don't think he's the greatest coach since Gen. Neyland either. He's proven to be an excellent recruiter but has left something to be desired as a HC.
Right now it all seems to rise and fall on our talent. To me, an average coach can win when his team is more talented than the opp. and generally loses when his team is undermanned. That is exactly what we are doing now. But great coaches will find a way to get his team to win some games they aren't expected to.

To be great you have to win some games where you just straight up out-coach better or equally talented opposition. So far that isn't happening for us. No doubt our arrow is pointing up and I'll take 8-4 and 9-3 seasons over what we've had most of the last decade. But I'd prefer to do better than a John Cooper/Mark Richt. Time will tell but while I think we'll be much improved over what we were due to much better talent, I'm not convinced we have the total package to out talent and out coach most teams which is what it'll take to be a true contender in the future.
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I've discussed this on here for years, but it seems like it bears repeating. Talent dictates about 70% of all CFB games played. If you simply average four years of rivals recruiting numbers, order teams by that number, and pick the team with the higher average to win any match-up, you'd be right more than 2/3 of the time. What this says is that most coaches win when their team is more talented, and most lose when their team is less talented. For example: since 2005, only once has a team with a lower four year recruiting average won the national championship game, and that was Texas in 2005.

Another interesting fact: to play in the national championship game, all teams since 2005 have had a 4 year recruiting average that was top 15.

What looking at this data tells me is that for sustained success, you need a coach who recruits very well, and doesn't hurt talent.
 
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