Fmr Vol Comments on Player Development

#26
#26
Backwards K said:
The photo comparing former Vols to today's Vols speaks volumes. With the exception of Trey Smith, the Vols' OL just looks like a collection of fat, unathletic guys. The bad thing, all of these guys have experience but they look like they are weaker, slower, and much worse than they were when they got here. That's where most of the problems begin with this year's offense.

But, when you promote a grad asst to be your OL coach, what do you expect?
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This right here!!! The game of football starts at the line of scrimmage. Most of the time the game is decided in the trenches. For 3 years I lamented that Don Mahoney was the absolute worst coach on the staff. I kind of feel vindicated in my sentiments because he is now coaching at some irrelevant division 2 school in West Virginia. Nobody wanted him and everyone else knew he couldn’t coach.

Sad part is when Mahoney’s contract finally runs out you promote someone from within instead of looking outside. Obviously if Wells could coach offensive line they wouldn’t have been so terrible the last 3 years.
 
#27
#27
Hacksaw said:
This makes no sense to me. Jones is not solely responsible for player development. He has a whole staff of assistant coaches and trainers whose job it is to help players develop. ALL of them are incompetent? How can that be?

I agree that on the surface it looks like the players aren't getting better. But Butch not being able to develop players is a little too convenient for the Fire Butch crowd. Something tells me it's more complicated than that.
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So you're opposed to firing butch? Did you eat paint chips as a kid? How are there any of you participation trophy dbags left?
 
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#28
#28
I want to say Wilson but I think this is mild for what he probably would have said. Not a coach either, that I know of.
 
#29
#29
fossilfiction said:
I want to say Wilson but I think this is mild for what he probably would have said. Not a coach either, that I know of.
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It was whoever said Kahlil should be a O Lineman when he first got here. Can't remember who said it though. But it was posted on here.
 
#30
#30
MiramarVol said:
Player development (or lack thereof) heart of problem for Butch Jones


For the record, this former player should know what he’s talking about. He won a national title at Tennessee as one of the better players and currently is a coach himself. He wasn’t angry; he was simply apathetic. He was beyond the point of caring about Jones or believing he actually can turn things around. Simply put, Jones is lacking a fundamental skill that will not allow a coach to succeed.


Who do you think this was? Tee?
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At the end of the day a head coach is not responsible for developing players. That’s what he pays his assistant/position coaches for. The head coach is a CEO responsible for managing the program for which Butch Jones has done a terrible job.

I know he stepped into a tough situation with the financial budget basically being non existent as a result of that incompetent garden gnome Mike Hamilton but he mismanaged the resources he did have. When he got rid of John Jancek for Bob Shoop it was a small upgrade but far from the most pressing need on the team. A more pressing need would have been to replace Don Mahoney or Mike DeBord. For that matter you name a Michigan Olympic sports director as your offensive coordinator? WTF!! Now you promote a guy to offensive coordinator in Larry Scott who hasn’t been in that role since his high school coaching days like 8 years ago? WTF again!!

Butch truly cares about TN and put everything in for them. At the end of the day though he isn’t a great coach. He is basically a MAC level coach who road Brian Kelly’s coattails at his last 2 stops.

We need an offensive minded coach and leader. We don’t have to replace the entire staff. You could keep the defensive staff as well as Robert Gillespie.
 
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#31
#31
We have a staff of good recruiters who just happen to coach in my honest opinion. I do believe Gillespie is the best coach we have on staff as his group of running backs have performed well. The rest I truly believe are here to recruit. I was talking about this very topic with my friend Danny on the way back from the South Carolina game that we just don’t seem to be developing as we should. We have an RB coach at QB coach, a GA on offensive line and so on. 4 star players are great and all but unless they get better you can’t win at a consistent level. Even a guy like JJ Watt who Butch had Central Michigan made his name at Wisconsin (Jones wanted him to play Offensive Tackle).
 
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#32
#32
I rarely ever post and am not acquainted with blog etiquette. If the following seems too esoteric for the forum, let me know and I’ll return to lurking. Otherwise, please humor me because my wife is more interested in This Is Us than psychoanalyzing our coach.

What has been CBJ’s fundamental flaw?

Most have cited player development. Erik Ainge, however recently suggested that an ‘East Tennessee cultural conflict’ is the bigger problem. According to Ainge, CBJ never grasped the value Tennessee fans place upon personal connection. Instead of using press conferences to speak to the fan base, Ainge believes CBJ used press conferences to speak indirectly to recruits. This, of course, helps explain why his statements come across so poorly, but now I’m wondering if this ‘cultural conflict’ may also explain his inability to develop players. Personal connections are, after all, desired by most everyone, not just East Tennesseans. So, is CBJ a classic example of someone great at securing buy-in but poorly suited at follow through? Is he great at making connections but poor at establishing more personal connections, or relationships? Does this explain why top recruits buy-in but never seem to sell-out for the cause? Could this also explain why respected coordinators have left for seemingly parallel positions?

And if the bedrock of great coaching is genuine concern for people, does Saban actually have a heart in that stone cold frame?
 
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#33
#33
Hacksaw said:
This makes no sense to me. Jones is not solely responsible for player development. He has a whole staff of assistant coaches and trainers whose job it is to help players develop. ALL of them are incompetent? How can that be?

I agree that on the surface it looks like the players aren't getting better. But Butch not being able to develop players is a little too convenient for the Fire Butch crowd. Something tells me it's more complicated than that.
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It is more complicated. However the vast majority of the Fahr Butch need things kept simple. Really simple.

Sad but it is what it is.
 
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#35
#35
Backwards K said:
But, when you promote a grad asst to be your OL coach, what do you expect?
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Not fair. All coaches, even Nick Saban was at 1 time a grad assistant.

+1 in the Kamara statement. His talent was clearly far beyond what our coaches could comprehend.

Maybe they need 1 individual str. And cond.coach for football team. instead of folling a set workout/training regiment. Maybe that would make it more personalized to meet each players needs.
Gullickson prob has a little to much on his plate.
 
#36
#36
straferockefeller said:
I rarely ever post and am not acquainted with blog etiquette. If the following seems too esoteric for the forum, let me know and I’ll return to lurking. Otherwise, please humor me because my wife is more interested in This Is Us than psychoanalyzing our coach.

What has been CBJ’s fundamental flaw?

Most have cited player development. Erik Ainge, however recently suggested that an ‘East Tennessee cultural conflict’ is the bigger problem. According to Ainge, CBJ never grasped the value Tennessee fans place upon personal connection. Instead of using press conferences to speak to the fan base, Ainge believes CBJ used press conferences to speak indirectly to recruits. This, of course, helps explain why his statements come across so poorly, but now I’m wondering if this ‘cultural conflict’ may also explain his inability to develop players. Personal connections are, after all, desired by most everyone, not just East Tennesseans. So, is CBJ a classic example of someone great at securing buy-in but poorly suited at follow through? Is he great at making connections but poor at establishing more personal connections, or relationships? Does this explain why top recruits buy-in but never seem to sell-out for the cause? Could this also explain why respected coordinators have left for seemingly parallel positions?

And if the bedrock of great coaching is genuine concern for people, does Saban actually have a heart in that stone cold frame?
Click to expand...


Sounds logical to me.
Saban, well he sold his soul to the devil.... :devilsmoke:
 
#37
#37
Backwards K said:
The photo comparing former Vols to today's Vols speaks volumes. With the exception of Trey Smith, the Vols' OL just looks like a collection of fat, unathletic guys. The bad thing, all of these guys have experience but they look like they are weaker, slower, and much worse than they were when they got here. That's where most of the problems begin with this year's offense.

But, when you promote a grad asst to be your OL coach, what do you expect?
Click to expand...

Reportedly before the season started, recall the NFL scout who put into print we were "soft?" The guy knew what he was talking about it seems ... ... sadly.
 
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#39
#39
straferockefeller said:
I rarely ever post and am not acquainted with blog etiquette. If the following seems too esoteric for the forum, let me know and I’ll return to lurking. Otherwise, please humor me because my wife is more interested in This Is Us than psychoanalyzing our coach.

What has been CBJ’s fundamental flaw?

Most have cited player development. Erik Ainge, however recently suggested that an ‘East Tennessee cultural conflict’ is the bigger problem. According to Ainge, CBJ never grasped the value Tennessee fans place upon personal connection. Instead of using press conferences to speak to the fan base, Ainge believes CBJ used press conferences to speak indirectly to recruits. This, of course, helps explain why his statements come across so poorly, but now I’m wondering if this ‘cultural conflict’ may also explain his inability to develop players. Personal connections are, after all, desired by most everyone, not just East Tennesseans. So, is CBJ a classic example of someone great at securing buy-in but poorly suited at follow through? Is he great at making connections but poor at establishing more personal connections, or relationships? Does this explain why top recruits buy-in but never seem to sell-out for the cause? Could this also explain why respected coordinators have left for seemingly parallel positions?

And if the bedrock of great coaching is genuine concern for people, does Saban actually have a heart in that stone cold frame?
Click to expand...
Too esoteric, whatever that means.
 
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#40
#40
DaUndergroundMan said:
Finebaum had alvin Kamara on a couple of weeks ago. I believe it was after the georgia game.

Knowing Finebaum you can imagine he attempted to get Alvin to weigh in on Jones and his struggles.

Alvin, being mature and pretty classy wouldnt take the bait. All he did was keep smiling and repeating, "Jones is a players coach, you know. He took care of players, he's a players coach."
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He was real classy protesting during the moment of silence for the ambushed law enforcement officer who was killed.
 
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#41
#41
lego126 said:
Not fair. All coaches, even Nick Saban was at 1 time a grad assistant.

+1 in the Kamara statement. His talent was clearly far beyond what our coaches could comprehend.

Maybe they need 1 individual str. And cond.coach for football team. instead of folling a set workout/training regiment. Maybe that would make it more personalized to meet each players needs.
Gullickson prob has a little to much on his plate.
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That is probably on trustees. Sound like when Butch wanted to bring him in that spreading him out to oversee all teams was part of a negotiation with somebody who thought they were offering him too much. Could explain why this years injury list is worse than last year.
 
#42
#42
JettVol said:
Could be anyone with a set of eyes and half a brain. The guys we get are good, and as they stay at Tennessee the don't get much better or get worse. The only guys I can think of that go against this thought are Dobbs, (he did get better as a passer, Kamara, though underutilized, and Barnett).
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I would even venture to say Kamara and Barnett didn’t improve much. They were that talented from the first snap. Just didn’t see it in as often in Kamara until Hurd was out of the picture.
 
#45
#45
IluvdoubleD's said:
Jones protects his players and babies them. It's obvious. It just wasn't obvious to me until this year, but it's so easy to see now. He babies these kids. When he says "my job is to protect these kids, they are like my own kids" He means it, and that is what's happening.
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I also believe this to be true. But I also think that's one of the reasons his players go all out for him no matter the situation. They lack toughness, but they will play til the end. It's a double edged sword
 
#46
#46
As much as I hate "anonymous" sourced articles this 1 is spot on in my opinion. 4 and 5 stars look like 2 and 3 stars after a couple years in this system. Inexplicable other than a lack of coaching.
 
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#48
#48
Hacksaw said:
This makes no sense to me. Jones is not solely responsible for player development. He has a whole staff of assistant coaches and trainers whose job it is to help players develop. ALL of them are incompetent? How can that be?

I agree that on the surface it looks like the players aren't getting better. But Butch not being able to develop players is a little too convenient for the Fire Butch crowd. Something tells me it's more complicated than that.
Click to expand...

I'm not entirely sure myself. Butch has brought in numerous assistant coaches. Many of them have been very successful. Shoop is considered one of the best DC's in the country, yet the defense has struggled tremendously. Hoke is a very good DL coach, yet the DL play has dropped off dramatically. Something is going on up there. Ultimately Butch is responsible.
 
#49
#49
Backwards K said:
The photo comparing former Vols to today's Vols speaks volumes. With the exception of Trey Smith, the Vols' OL just looks like a collection of fat, unathletic guys. The bad thing, all of these guys have experience but they look like they are weaker, slower, and much worse than they were when they got here. That's where most of the problems begin with this year's offense.

But, when you promote a grad asst to be your OL coach, what do you expect?
Click to expand...

But, but that grad assistant likes wrasslin'.

Hes a culture fit, dont you see?
 
#50
#50
Butch Jones is a control freak of a HC. It matters not who the position coaches are, they MUST teach Jones' system.

It would appear that Jones does not place much value in basic football techniques of any position. All that matters is strict adherence to his system. If receivers run their routes in accordance with his system they WILL be open. If a QB adheres to his system they will complete passes, it makes do difference what their technique is in delivering the ball. Throw sidearm, from the back foot, etc., their technique does not matter. One must adhere to the Jones SYSTEM and all will be well!
 
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