Florida streak (split)

[Nasavol]

I will be the first to admit that D4H has put out some serious BS, but, in this instance he is more right than he is wrong. the 11 game streak should not matter, and, I believe it doesn't. However, if you are a senior, then there is a 3 game streak, and that can enter in your mind, so there is that.

Using SO-JR rankings is an interesting concept, although rankings are not the end all, as attrition, washouts, etc come into play. Nice idea D4H.

Now on to FL, someone posted that their offense was terrible. With Grier at QB they were clicking pretty good, without him, not so much. Mcelwein can coach.

Look at our losses and you will see a trend, what is the common denominator in all the losses? The better QB was on the winning side. Grier was outperforming Dobbs up until he was suspended. This is exactly why OK, and Clemson are where they are at. Look at the last few years with those teams and the talent they had at QB.

For all my bashing, of sorts, of Dobbs, he will or should be, the better QB in all but maybe 1 of our contests this year. This is why we will beat FL, and TA&M may be closer than you think.

It is a QB league in college as well as the pros.

 

[VOL 4 Life 83]

Still doesn't explain how it has to do with next year.

Beating a dead horse now but it has been discussed by our coaches, players, and opposing players/coaches. If that's not including the history of the rivalry then I don't know what is

 

[82_VOL_83]

Be careful. Theres a search feature that allows us to look up posts from the past.

Id hate to research that post where you declared Tennessee easily more talented last season.

Id also hate to list all the teams, like Georgia Southern, that somehow managed to get it done

God the world has gone crazy. Who would have thought that a Gator poster on a VOL forum would get more respect than a supposed VOL fan.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Yeah, Sewannee has an awesome football programk:

You're lucky we didn't boot your ass and keep GT. Classier team.

 

[KBVol]

I thought someone said it best a few posts back. Once the ball kicks off this crap doesn't matter.

This stuff is only fodder for our weak pathetic fans.

"Weak pathetic fans"......what a guy.

 

[KBVol]

God the world has gone crazy. Who would have thought that a Gator poster on a VOL forum would get more respect than a supposed VOL fan.

He's 10 times the better, classier, more informed, more respectful poster than our very own D4H .... he's also firmly grounded in reality. One of the better posters on VN, period IMO.

 

[McDad]

Has anyone tried using just the sophomore/junior classes?

Logically it would seem to be more accurate.

When these convos have occurred in the past, daj (the poster who I credit with the discovery of CFB Matrix) maintained that recalculating for attrition, early departure for NFL, and giving more weight to upper class men gave only marginal statistical improvements compared to the 4 year running average. He said that the extra work required to calculate those variables was not worth the effort.
Then he and the other math nerds started discussing statistics and my eyes glazed over.

 

[Iam4utalways]

God the world has gone crazy. Who would have thought that a Gator poster on a VOL forum would get more respect than a supposed VOL fan.

I think it's an illness. Battered Vol Syndrome, acting like we should roll out the orange carpet for a clown gator. For the record that goes for the Bammers and Dogs too.

Where I come from(TENNESSEE) you don't pick an outsider over family, you just don't do it. It's being a traitor to your family, over a dog gone discussion board have some dignity.

Jump higher Vols.

 

[HARTUPM]

So. We've beaten Georgia and they've had players drafted. We had Florida beat the last two years, only to collapse at the end. You don't think psyche has something to do with it?

Indeed it does. Despite said talent disparity, we outplayed them and let them off the hook both times. This year there aint no talent gap, they lost a lot and we bring everybody back. Gators better buckle up this year.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

So. We've beaten Georgia and they've had players drafted. We had Florida beat the last two years, only to collapse at the end. You don't think psyche has something to do with it?

No it doesnt. The simple fact is we collapsed. UF has made the plays when we havent. Bad coachng and bad player execution has led to our losses. The only ones who suffer from some psyche or mental block are fans.

 

[UTK]

Did you watch the NFL draft last week?

7 gators drafted compared to 0 Vols. Last year wasn't any better. 8 gators drafted in 2015 to 0 Vols.

So in the last 2 years, Florida has had 15 players drafted while we've had ZERO. Its actually amazing that the games have been so close. You would think with so much better upperclass talent, that the margin of victory for Florida the last 2 years wouldn't be a total of 2 points.

And the last 2 years haven't been an aberration. Florida has consistently recruited better than us for most of the last 11 years. And they've put more players into the NFL.

Kind of hard to beat a team if they consistently field the better players.

We've had better players and teams overall the last two years. They just stayed or weren't draft eligible. Nice try though.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Bama only lost two early exits from the number one ranked class in 2013. Dropping that class from your figures would screw things up pretty good, wouldn't it?

Then include it for some teams but not others. All I'm saying is teams like Ohio State, Ole Miss, Notre Dame, and even Florida that had top 5-top 10 classes lost a lot of their most highly rated 2013 signees to the draft. Guys that made those classes top 5 or 10 to begin with. Without the Big 3, is Ole Miss 2013 class really that impressive? Or how about Florida without Hargreaves, Taylor, Neal, and Robinson?

It just seems to be an inaccurate barometer of team strength to include the 2013 class for like half the teams that landed top 10 classes since the guys that made those classes top 10 Are in the league.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

While Ohio State had a lot of players leave, not all were juniors, not all were seniors. I promise you there are some highly talented, experienced guys that are gonna be filling their shoes. You have to weigh all 4 years.

So what your saying is the guys that make up our senior class shouldn't be counted? There are some stud guys that are seniors; JRM, Sutton, Josh Smith, and your fav Dobbs. So we shouldn't consider them in the rankings? Is it false advertisement showing that a lot of our talent is in the senior class? You're not making sense.

No. What I'm saying is most of the top teams have a handful of stud seniors so one class being rated higher than another makes no difference.

In 2013 we had a class ranked #24, Ohio State was ranked #2. Are the guys left in Ohio State's 2013 class better than Dobbs, Sutton, JRM, Vereen, and Weisman? Maybe. But not enough that its a 22 place difference.

My only point is almost everyone in the top 10-20 classes of 2013 has about the same number of stud seniors left. And most had some of their most talented 2013 players leave early. Ohio State and Ole Miss being hit the worst.

I think if you want a good idea of what separates the best teams it's the depth of talent in the junior and sophomore classes.

The freshmen class like the senior class is also dumb to include because no team is gonna have 8-10 impact freshmen. Even the best class usually has only 3-4 freshmen make big impacts.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Indeed it does. Despite said talent disparity, we outplayed them and let them off the hook both times. This year there aint no talent gap, they lost a lot and we bring everybody back. Gators better buckle up this year.

Or our guys could've just gotten tired?

Our top 22 last year was good enough to win it all. However, we lacked depth. Behind most of our stud sophomore starters were true freshmen not yet ready for the big lights.

I think folks have discounted how big a deal depth makes. I think that played significantly into the 4th quarter collapses. It wasn't that guys choked. They just got tired. Especially along the defensive line.

More depth and experience should help us close out those games.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

No it doesnt. The simple fact is we collapsed. UF has made the plays when we havent. Bad coachng and bad player execution has led to our losses. The only ones who suffer from some psyche or mental block are fans.

True. But lack of depth hurt is as well. By the time the 4th quarter came around a lot of our guys were gassed.

Having a more mature and experienced team changes that.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

We've had better players and teams overall the last two years. They just stayed or weren't draft eligible. Nice try though.

Great freshmen and sophomores can be beaten by good senior and juniors. Experience still counts for something. Plus our depth was still poor. Florida exposed that in the 4th quarter.

Our top end talent was better last year. But they had more depth.

 

[norrislakevol]

Then include it for some teams but not others. All I'm saying is teams like Ohio State, Ole Miss, Notre Dame, and even Florida that had top 5/top 10 classes lost a lot of their most highly rated 2013 signees to the draft. Guys that made those classes top 5 or 10 to begin with. Without the Big 3, is Ole Miss 2013 class really that impressive? Or how about Florida without Hargreaves, Taylor, Neal, and Robinson?

It just seems to be an inaccurate barometer of team strength to include the 2013 class for like half the teams that landed top 10 classes.

The really big difference is along the lines of scrimmage. Tennessee really out talents the Gators on the Offensive and defensive lines. Gators were very venerable to the run on defense last year, and will be for the next two years. Outside of a pair of stellar defensive ends Florida has signed no one of significance on the DL. Their front 7 isn't in as good shape as it was last year depth wise and is in big trouble next year unless they sign a bunch of JUCO's.

The offensive line, which looked pitiful near the end of last year, is also void of talent outside of a couple of guys. The recruiting here has pretty much been mid-major.

Gators have done well at the skill positions for the most part, with the exception of QB, but this is a line of scrimmage league. Tennessee and Georgia have a lot more talent and depth than Florida does here.

 

[LordBolton]

Great freshmen and sophomores can be beaten by good senior and juniors. Experience still counts for something. Plus our depth was still poor. Florida exposed that in the 4th quarter.

Our top end talent was better last year. But they had more depth.

I thought it had been long established that coaching buffoonery lost the Florida game last year. I'll never forget seeing that extra man just standing there, spying the QB in case he decided to hobble down the field on 4th and 22 or whatever it was. You know he was wanting to just take Grier's head off and end the game. But he showed discipline and did as he was assigned on the play, and the rest was history.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

I thought it had been long established that coaching buffoonery lost the Florida game last year. I'll never forget seeing that extra man just standing there, spying the QB in case he decided to hobble down the field on 4th and 22 or whatever it was. You know he was wanting to just take Grier's head off and end the game. But he showed discipline and did as he was assigned on the play, and the rest was history.

Your thoughts about coaching mistakes is only half the story. The players have blame on the loss. The coaches cannot coach and execute at the same time. If the players had made a few more plays, then this conversation would be completely different.

Football is a team sport that takes coaches and players. Both are responsible for wins as well as losses.

 

[norrislakevol]

To better illustrate my point, here are the FACTS for the line of scrimmage recruiting the past THREE YEARS for Tennessee, Florida, and Kentucky. This is based on star average. I didn't count defections, that's too much work.

Tennessee Defensive Line: 4.00
Florida Defensive Line: 3.27
Kentucky Defensive Line: 2.79

Tennessee Offensive Line: 3.58
Florida Offensive Line: 3.31
Kentucky Offensive Line: 3.23

So, as everyone can see, Florida's recruiting on the lines of scrimmage has been fairly pedestrian and is closer to Kentucky's recruiting average than Tennessee's. If you just look at the past two years, which are J Mac classes the gap is much larger. In fact, J Mac's recruiting in this area has been downright dreadful for the most part.

:yes:

 

[Boca Vol]

Wow. I just read through this thread. There are valid points all around.

Maybe D4H didn't explain it in the most PC way, but if you come down to FL you'll see kids playing sports 24/7 365. Yes, that makes a huge difference. By the time these kids get to their JR/SR years in HS they put in a lot more time than, say, a TN HS athlete.

It's no real surprise that states such as FL, TX, & CA put out the amount of players it does...population & weather.

Now, you will never convince me that UF (as far as players on the field) was more talented than UT the last 2 years. I do think they were probably more mentally strong, though. Why?

In '14, it was pretty clear that Muschamp was in over his head but somehow they managed to snatch victory away from UT. So last season they had a new coach and seemed out of sorts up until the last 2 drives of the 4th qtr against UT. Remember the RB arguing with the new coach against ECU, or whomever?

A lot of UT fans of will point to their QB and had he not been on roids they wouldn't have beaten UT. Just look at his stats leading up to the last 2 drives. Meh! He must have taken some really good stuff to be able to kick in at a precise moment.

UT has a mental block against good opponents, more so vs UF. Last year was a prime example. UT had late leads vs OU, UF, & Bama & lost all 3. OU & UF it was like everyone (coaches included) was waiting & hoping the clock would run out. That's being mentally weak.

I really think the team has turned the corner and this will be a special season. The schedule sets up pretty well, also

TL/DR...whoop de @$$!

 

[KBVol]

I think it's an illness. Battered Vol Syndrome, acting like we should roll out the orange carpet for a clown gator. For the record that goes for the Bammers and Dogs too.

Where I come from(TENNESSEE) you don't pick an outsider over family, you just don't do it. It's being a traitor to your family, over a dog gone discussion board have some dignity.

Jump higher Vols.

If the "outsider" is a better dude with smarter, more logical, more respectful takes, I got no problem rolling out the red carpet.

Do step back lunges Vols

 

[KBVol]

Wow. I just read through this thread. There are valid points all around.

Maybe D4H didn't explain it in the most PC way, but if you come down to FL you'll see kids playing sports 24/7 365. Yes, that makes a huge difference. By the time these kids get to their JR/SR years in HS they put in a lot more time than, say, a TN HS athlete.

It's no real surprise that states such as FL, TX, & CA put out the amount of players it does...population & weather.

Now, you will never convince me that UF (as far as players on the field) was more talented than UT the last 2 years. I do think they were probably more mentally strong, though. Why?

In '14, it was pretty clear that Muschamp was in over his head but somehow they managed to snatch victory away from UT. So last season they had a new coach and seemed out of sorts up until the last 2 drives of the 4th qtr against UT. Remember the RB arguing with the new coach against ECU, or whomever?

A lot of UT fans of will point to their QB and had he not been on roids they wouldn't have beaten UT. Just look at his stats leading up to the last 2 drives. Meh! He must have taken some really good stuff to be able to kick in at a precise moment.

UT has a mental block against good opponents, more so vs UF. Last year was a prime example. UT had late leads vs OU, UF, & Bama & lost all 3. OU & UF it was like everyone (coaches included) was waiting & hoping the clock would run out. That's being mentally weak.

I really think the team has turned the corner and this will be a special season. The schedule sets up pretty well, also

TL/DR...whoop de @$$!

While I see this as a logical, solid, factual and generally spot on post, be prepared for guys calling you a ouija board totin', tarot card dealing, black magic practicing witch doctor for daring to suggest that Tennessee in any which way, form or fashion has a 'mental block' when it comes to finishing off and winning a game vs Florida.

 

[VOL 4 Life 83]

No. What I'm saying is most of the top teams have a handful of stud seniors so one class being rated higher than another makes no difference.

In 2013 we had a class ranked #24, Ohio State was ranked #2. Are the guys left in Ohio State's 2013 class better than Dobbs, Sutton, JRM, Vereen, and Weisman? Maybe. But not enough that its a 22 place difference.

My only point is almost everyone in the top 10-20 classes of 2013 has about the same number of stud seniors left. And most had some of their most talented 2013 players leave early. Ohio State and Ole Miss being hit the worst.

I think if you want a good idea of what separates the best teams it's the depth of talent in the junior and sophomore classes.

The freshmen class like the senior class is also dumb to include because no team is gonna have 8-10 impact freshmen. Even the best class usually has only 3-4 freshmen make big impacts.

But like I stated earlier, you can't adjust the ratings for one team and not for another. You need all classes to be considered because all classes contribute (freshmen and seniors included), whether it's on special teams or in the 2/3 deep.

 

[Rudy123]

The last 11 years have nothing to do with next year.

There is alot of buzz concerning this team and bUTch has changed our team from being an embarrassment to something we can be proud of.
However; we always lose to Florida regardless of who fields the better team. Sometimes we have a better team but we still lose to them.
This trend will continue. Look at the games we lost last season that were close games that we could have won. This shows me that we still have those same trends that we have had for over a decade.
Do not be concerned though because we can still win the S.E.C. East because we will depend on UGA & LSU to beat Florida for us and we will get to the S.E.C. from the back door.
Always chalk Alabama & Florida games as us being beat by them.