FL game last play

#26
#26
Jaws said:
Not only was Kongdo not held, but he lined up with his hand in the neutral zone. Flag should have been thrown on him, but of course, Florida would have declined.
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Go back and look at the last play again. Far side receiver puts his foot on the white line. The referee on that side was responsible for the previous spot... 6 inches SHORT of the line. How does he NOT call offsides. What was he doing?
 
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#27
#27
tabrams said:
. He also said that the weakness in a cover 2 is the middle of the field.
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Cover 2 is weak on almost all deep patterns...it's vulnerable to the deep middle as well as the 20 yd pass in the middle...

It's vulnerable to flood patterns...it's vulnerable to 4 "go" or 9 routes....

The point is that Shoop did not learn a DARNED THING from the UGA game last year about his players or play-calling with the game on the line!!!!

The corner and Safety didn't cover the deep 9 route last year...and guess what--it was 22 Abernathy who didn't get over to cover the WR in Cover 2 against UGA last year, too!!!!

Cover 2 got us beat by UGA--if not for a miracle....

Why in the heck does that moron think 22 Abernathy can cover anything with the game on the line? It's just flat out stupid and inexcusable.

Coaches getting paid what he does should know his personnel and how to put them in a coverage that gives them the best chance to defend...

....Shoop actually said it was Quarter-Quarter Half...but the end result was to only have 2 Safeties trying to cover 3 zones on the play call....and #8 Martin--the weak side CB lined up across from #89 should've ran with him in Quarter-Quarter Half in Florida's formation--he was actually responsible for the deep half of the field!

The irony is that neither 22 nor 18 were in position to actually defend the long bomb...Franks could've thrown it to either #4 or #89 and it looks like it would've been completed...

http://www.blitzology.com/2015/07/defending-trips-with-quarter-quarter.html

According to the diagram in the website above...8 Martin should've ran back and covered the deep half on his side...


https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/17/16322460/florida-tennessee-hail-mary-touchdown?yptr=yahoo

I don't agree with this guy's assessment--the safest bet in that situation is to have 3 DBs covering each deep third with the guy in the middle playing centerfield and breaking on anything that is thrown by keeping it all in front of him....

We used to call that Cover 3...

Here's a good discussion of it...https://www.thephinsider.com/2014/8/15/6000113/football-101-coverage-shells
 
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#29
#29
As a collective group they lost the game they should have won and needed to win.
A chance at the East Division is a very long shot...again

Injuries, fluke play, etc...so many excuses.

Representing the East in the SECCG should be the goal for Butch. If after five seasons in a division that shows no clear dominate team and he can't secure a spot in the championship game he needs to be shown the door.
 
#31
#31
Honestly, I'm not really hung up on the last play. I'm more focused on the first three games as a whole, and where we are trending as a program right now.

There's so much that was going wrong well before that play. That's what has my attention.
 
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#32
#32
Jaws said:
Not only was Kongdo not held, but he lined up with his hand in the neutral zone. Flag should have been thrown on him, but of course, Florida would have declined.
Click to expand...

You're averaging roughly 8 posts a day on a Vol site as a gator. What do you do?
 
#33
#33
SN-A-C Orange said:
Go back and look at the last play again. Far side receiver puts his foot on the white line. The referee on that side was responsible for the previous spot... 6 inches SHORT of the line. How does he NOT call offsides. What was he doing?
Click to expand...

You're correct the official originally marked the ball short of the 35 but they spotted the ball over the 35.

If I'm a UF coach in the booth I think it's a 1st down. No wonder the confusion.
 
#34
#34
We had the field goal covered, defense was a fine call Abernathy is the reason the last play busted. I was initially pissed at Martin for quiting on the play, he had to drop and cover a guy at field goal range. Abernathy saw him drop and still let his man behind him.
 
#35
#35
MikeVol44 said:
Cover 2 is weak on almost all deep patterns...it's vulnerable to the deep middle as well as the 20 yd pass in the middle...

It's vulnerable to flood patterns...it's vulnerable to 4 "go" or 9 routes....

The point is that Shoop did not learn a DARNED THING from the UGA game last year about his players or play-calling with the game on the line!!!!

The corner and Safety didn't cover the deep 9 route last year...and guess what--it was 22 Abernathy who didn't get over to cover the WR in Cover 2 against UGA last year, too!!!!

Cover 2 got us beat by UGA--if not for a miracle....

Why in the heck does that moron think 22 Abernathy can cover anything with the game on the line? It's just flat out stupid and inexcusable.

Coaches getting paid what he does should know his personnel and how to put them in a coverage that gives them the best chance to defend...

....Shoop actually said it was Quarter-Quarter Half...but the end result was to only have 2 Safeties trying to cover 3 zones on the play call....and #8 Martin--the weak side CB lined up across from #89 should've ran with him in Quarter-Quarter Half in Florida's formation--he was actually responsible for the deep half of the field!

The irony is that neither 22 nor 18 were in position to actually defend the long bomb...Franks could've thrown it to either #4 or #89 and it looks like it would've been completed...

http://www.blitzology.com/2015/07/defending-trips-with-quarter-quarter.html

According to the diagram in the website above...8 Martin should've ran back and covered the deep half on his side...


https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/17/16322460/florida-tennessee-hail-mary-touchdown?yptr=yahoo

I don't agree with this guy's assessment--the safest bet in that situation is to have 3 DBs covering each deep third with the guy in the middle playing centerfield and breaking on anything that is thrown by keeping it all in front of him....

We used to call that Cover 3...

Here's a good discussion of it...https://www.thephinsider.com/2014/8/15/6000113/football-101-coverage-shells
Click to expand...

I thought it was TKjr #24 who was late getting in position to cover the TD pass where the receiver ran past Foreman against UGA in 2016 game. I'll double-check.
 
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#36
#36
tabrams said:
I've read many different ideas on here about the FL game and specifically the last play. I spoke to a guy who plays professional arena league football and explained the last play to him.

He said that the play call sounded good. He thinks that the players didn't execute. The safety cannot get burned like that. He also said that the weakness in a cover 2 is the middle of the field. So when Abernathy turned to his right instead of his left he allowed the WR to run by him so it wasn't the coaches playcalling mistake

Personally we lost the game many times over by not scoring in the red zone. So really nobody should be blaming Shoop or Butch for the defensive call. Also I doubt that QB could throw another ball hitting a guy in stride from over 70 yards with tight coverage again in 1000 tries. It was very lucky.

No question that the Blame falls on the offense, special teams, and offensive coaching in the red zone....

I think Shoop coached a good game overall against a poor offense..
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Fundamental mistake. By turning right Abernathy had to twist his body 270 degrees as opposed to turning left for 90 degrees or less. He should have been back pedaling the moment Franks broke from the pocket. Losing the game was a total team effort irregardless. Coaches included.
 
#37
#37
tabrams said:
I've read many different ideas on here about the FL game and specifically the last play. I spoke to a guy who plays professional arena league football and explained the last play to him.

He said that the play call sounded good. He thinks that the players didn't execute. The safety cannot get burned like that. He also said that the weakness in a cover 2 is the middle of the field. So when Abernathy turned to his right instead of his left he allowed the WR to run by him so it wasn't the coaches playcalling mistake

Personally we lost the game many times over by not scoring in the red zone. So really nobody should be blaming Shoop or Butch for the defensive call. Also I doubt that QB could throw another ball hitting a guy in stride from over 70 yards with tight coverage again in 1000 tries. It was very lucky.

No question that the Blame falls on the offense, special teams, and offensive coaching in the red zone....

I think Shoop coached a good game overall against a poor offense..
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Please make it stop
 
#38
#38
K-town Vol Fan said:
It was a CB that got burnt last year vs UGA. I remember it was Malik Foreman. Cover 2 is not an aggressive call. The safety simply cannot let anyone behind him. Thats literally the 1 thing he cannot do. And he did it.
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And it was a CB that got burnt in 2015, but UGA's receiver dropped the ball in the endzone.

Butch has a systematic error that covers the time of Jancek and Shoop at Tennessee. The secondary getting beat over and over again in key moments happens every year. So far we are 2-2 because of an opponent dropping the ball and JJ bailing us out last year vs Georgia.
 
#40
#40
Sarms58 said:
It was a busted play...after the game Frank's said the play was to get the ball to/inside the 35 and kick a FG...receiver was covered so they scrambled...
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So. According to that, the coaches had the right defense set up and took away what the Gators wanted to do. Once the play broke down and it turned into a scramble drill, it is up to the players to react and make a play. Florida did, Tennessee didn't....on that one play.
 
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#41
#41
Backwards K said:
So. According to that, the coaches had the right defense set up and took away what the Gators wanted to do. Once the play broke down and it turned into a scramble drill, it is up to the players to react and make a play. Florida did, Tennessee didn't....on that one play.
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In a nutshell.
 
#42
#42
I'm far more hung up on that Tennessee first down call from the half yard line. I can't remember when I've see a team do that on first down. 99.9 percent of the time you try a run on first down.
 
#43
#43
MikeVol44 said:
....Shoop actually said it was Quarter-Quarter Half...but the end result was to only have 2 Safeties trying to cover 3 zones on the play call....and #8 Martin--the weak side CB lined up across from #89 should've ran with him in Quarter-Quarter Half in Florida's formation--he was actually responsible for the deep half of the field!

The irony is that neither 22 nor 18 were in position to actually defend the long bomb...Franks could've thrown it to either #4 or #89 and it looks like it would've been completed...
Click to expand...

Good explanation, but #8 did not have the half. 22 had the weak side half. 18 had a quarter, and 12 had a quarter on the strong side. I have no idea what 12 was doing by dropping his coverage around the 30yd line. That made 18 have to cover the WR4 running the sideline (who was also open).

In defense of 22 he was expecting some help from 18 and had to defend a curl or in route at the 30 yd line, he slows his backpedal almost like that's what he's expecting.

The weak side LB also played poorly. As soon as the QB left the pocket the LB should have been there to put him on his back. He had no coverage responsibilities.

Somehow the most critical error seems to be this. How did a cover 3 call essentially turn into cover 2? Not only did it turn into cover two but both deep receivers ended up in single coverage. Whatever you call defensively there is no way any receiver should get beyond field goal range in single coverage.
 
#44
#44
K-town Vol Fan said:
It was a CB that got burnt last year vs UGA. I remember it was Malik Foreman. Cover 2 is not an aggressive call. The safety simply cannot let anyone behind him. Thats literally the 1 thing he cannot do. And he did it.
Click to expand...

Why are people having a very difficult time understanding this? The defensive call WAS the right call. The execution was the mistake. Players have to be able to adapt to the situation in mid play. MA was late recognizing that and let the guy get behind him.
 
#45
#45
Boca Vol said:
You're correct the official originally marked the ball short of the 35 but they spotted the ball over the 35.
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Not to be contrary .. but it appears to me ... they actually 'mis spot it' and then an official runs in to correct the spot and moves the football to about 6 inches short of the line ... which is where the far side official actually 'marked' the spot.

Just for the fun of it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK9Wo0TcluM
Go to 2:25:27:01 (best look might be 2:25:26:59) and you will see that the football was re-spotted @ 6 inches short of the line.

The receiver set up over the line 2:25:31 right BEFORE the center touches the ball ... they were in hurry up cause the clock was moving and the official who made the spot 'allows' both the center and the receiver to ignore the official position of the football 2:25:35 ... by this time, the center MOVES it forward to at least on the line, before the snap. Center has now re positioned the ball and helps his receiver ... if indeed the receiver needed any help ... "the official" hates us ... c'est la vie
 
#46
#46
Dropping everybody back to keep this from happening, isn't a once in a lifetime call. This happens fairly often ( score tied -one last play), if you were to look at all the games played in OT, at least half of them try a Hail Mary during their last drive. Let's face it Jones Blew IT, as he has many times with weird calls, poor calls, and poor time out calls. Honestly if he were to have asked ANY fan wearing Orange (even the drunk ones), what should we do this next play, he'd have gotten a better call....
 
#47
#47
BigOrangeTrain said:
Exactly. The last two bad calls against Tennessee were absolute game changers. The ones the refs missed on UF were earlier in the game.
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There's about a hundred missed calls (an exaggeration, but you get my point hopefully) throughout a game. Any one of them would and could change the entire rest of the game, creating about a million different unique conclusions to a game. I understand people complaining about missed calls on the final plays, but at the end of the day it's a moot point because we're ignoring a ton of other missed calls that potentially had giant impacts as well.
 
#48
#48
It wasn't so much the last play that upset me but the fact that said play was even capable of winning the game. What I mean is, we should have been up a couple of scores and that last TD should've been a garbage TD as the game should have already been in hand.
 
#49
#49
rocketskates said:
It wasn't so much the last play that upset me but the fact that said play was even capable of winning the game. What I mean is, we should have been up a couple of scores and that last TD should've been a garbage TD as the game should have already been in hand.
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One of the odd things about this game is both teams thought they should have blown the other team out. UF fans certainly think this should have been a 2+ touchdown win.
 
#50
#50
SteensVol said:
Should have been a offsides on the first down. No excuse for missing that! None!

Should have called the holding on Kongbo - one guy right there watching the line - it was his only job!

No excuse for Tennessee screwing up coverage! But there is no excuse for Ref screwing up either! And it did impact result.
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Play just before that, 14 seconds left, WR standing right in front of the ref at the top of the screen...like 6 inches past the line of scrimmage. I know the yellow line isn't 100% accurate but the ref almost had to lean to the side to see the LOS because the wr was in his view. They had 6 inches to make the first down and the player was lined up with his toes past the first down marker. Incredible no call.

I'm not saying that is what cost us the game though. Dropped passes in my opinion.
 
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