Finebaum

[YankeeVol]

that's a load of crap. He doesn't go by that and you know it. The only people calling him that are those taking shots at him when things go south. This isn't the first time the Lyle brigade has come to VN.

One comment. Your meter may be broken, or you're just gullible for believing everything someone says. I get that it's hard to understand context thru a forum.

I wasn't aware there was a "Lyle Brigade," thanks for the heads up though.

 

[smokey0625]

Yall were fine with Finebaum when he was praising Butch and UT

What has changed?

When you start losing. Starting 5-0 was impressive man. Dont be a dum dum.

 

[Hairy Vols]

Like it or not, he has been pretty positive about us all year until now. I've seen him stick up for us several times. He's just off he wagon. Similar to most of our fans even, so can you blame him. Like him or not he's a realist and I respect his opinion. We proved him wrong by making him look bad for sticking up for us so much. It is what it is tho. I personally believe he is unbiased towards us.

 

[utvolpj]

One comment. Your meter may be broken, or you're just gullible for believing everything someone says. I get that it's hard to understand context thru a forum.

I wasn't aware there was a "Lyle Brigade," thanks for the heads up though.

At least have the guts to own your post. You made it and you're not just using Lyle because it's his name.

 

[YankeeVol]

At least have the guts to own your post. You made it and you're not just using Lyle because it's his name.

Oh I'll own it. I'm sure in my 80k+ posts I've said crazier things (of which most is an emotional response a la the game threads).

It's quicker to type than Butch. Plus that I is right next to the O, and I've got enough infractions

 

[Skizer41]

Like him or not, that 7 yr talk is garbage.

I agree! He just isn't as far along in his "maturation" process as some other coaches are haha. Saban had no problem. Donkey face didn't take seven years in UF.

And honestly I like CBJ. I want him to be successful. I'm not calling for his job. I just think he needs to make some major adjustments. And maybe he is and we just don't see it. Things always get messy and some people always resist change. Let's see #1) how the rest of our season plays out and #2) what, if any, adjustments are made after the season.

 

[YankeeVol]

Bottom line is we're all fan and want what we believe is best for the program. The hard part is agreeing what best is.

 

[Specks]

strawman arguments are absurd.

What I have said, and facts are stubborn things, is that history clearly shows that if you are going to succeed at a national power it won't take 4-5 years to get your program to the elite level with very rare exceptions.

So the choice is to either accept mediocrity and underachievement or move on. The odds are the coach that hasn't gotten it done by year 4 won't ever get it done. That is simply a fact.

What you said was two years is the norm.

2 years is actually the norm..bob stoops 2nd yr nat'l title after 5-5-1/3-8/5-6/4-8 the 4 yrs before he got there

carroll 2nd yr orange bowl win top 5 finish after 23 losses in the 4 yrs before he arrived

harbaugh contending f nat'l title yr 2..

this talk about it taking 4-5 yrs is retarded

I'm saying this is unrealistic. Do you honestly think UM told Harbaugh you have 2 yrs to wins NC or else? You think Saban or Meyer was told that?

Look I get being passionate and wanting the best but you have to have realistic expectations.

If you operate this program where you either win a NC in 4 yrs or we're moving on then you'll never get a quality coach here.

 

[PowerSweep]

What you said was two years is the norm.




I'm saying this is unrealistic. Do you honestly think UM told Harbaugh you have 2 yrs to wins NC or else? You think Saban or Meyer was told that?

Look I get being passionate and wanting the best but you have to have realistic expectations.

If you operate this program where you either win a NC in 4 yrs or we're moving on then you'll never get a quality coach here.

how thick are you? 2 years is the norm f WHAT, exactly, according to powersweep?

If you operate this program where you either win a NC in 4 yrs or we're moving on then you'll never get a quality coach here

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.

who said nc in 4 yrs or fired?

 

[PowerSweep]

I will go step by step because I live in realville and use facts to back up my arguments and premises..these are what I have said and believe..you tell me which one(s) are wrong.

1) Tennessee is a historical top 10-15 program

2) Butch Jones is in his 4th yr.

3) Tennessee is not at an elite level as a team or program

4) Coaches that take over historically great programs such as Tennessee rarely are successful if they have not achieved #3 by year 4

5) For most coaches that turn out to be successful in these situations they have dramatic improvement by year 2

Those are my arguments..which ones are false and if so, why?

 

[Specks]

how thick are you? 2 years is the norm f WHAT, exactly, according to powersweep?

If you operate this program where you either win a NC in 4 yrs or we're moving on then you'll never get a quality coach here

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.

who said nc in 4 yrs or fired?

It's late and I'm not going to argue with you. You said after 4 years you can either accept mediocrity or move on. I know of no other way than to read into moving on as getting rid of the coach.

You said this, not me.

Good night.

 

[jarvol]

I'm not defending Saturday night, it was pathetic and I'm just as pissed as anyone else, but we can't lose all perspective here. It took Bobby Bowden 23 years to win the national title as a head coach, it took Dean Smith 21 years to win a national title, it took Coach K 16 years as a head coach to win a title. Winning comes with time, it's not accepting mediocrity, but having the patience to see potential moving forward. I think making a change would be catastrophic for our fan base and program, mostly because I'm incredibly excited about next years team.

Dear Lord now I have seen it all. Lyle has been compared to Bobby Bowden, Dean Smith, and Coach K.

I'll hang up and listen.

 

[MikeVol44]

Knocking Finebaum because he's never worn pads is ridiculous.

No, it is NOT...and I determinedly disagree.....that guy is supposed to be an expert on knowing how to build a championship program???

My point is that you have to have just a little bit of experience in playing a TEAM SPORT in order to have some internal idea of the training and discipline that goes into playing the positions at a level to win championships as a TEAM.....

It's an OXYMORON to ask FINEBUTT how long it should take to win a championship caliber team...

You don't have to be a stud FB player, or even a D-1 player....but you need to know something of what it's like to play a team sport and endure the training and preparation in order to have an idea of what personal dedication and talent it takes....

It took CPF 5 years after taking over a LOADED TEAM to win a NC.....5 YEARS at Tennessee...

What Saban has done at Alabama is one of the RAREST THINGS that has EVER BEEN WITNESSED in all of College Football.... And since Finebutt is a Bama homer--that is where he is drawing his conclusions.

Oklahoma's run in the 50s, Bama's run in the 60s and 70s....Miami's run in the 80s....and maybe FSU and Nebraska in the 90s....are the only thing close...

I lived in Bham from 89-93 and read his stupid articles all that time--his and that imbecile Kevin Scarbinsky.

...and he is, indeed, an EMBARRASSMENT TO THE SEC CHANNEL as the lead ANCHOR of a SPORTING NETWORK! He is a decent journalist--but he is ANYTHING but an expert on the game.... Even some BAMA friends I know can't stand him.....

A few examples:

Dabo Swinney at Clemson--interim in 2008....HC in 2009

2009--took over a very talented Clemson team and was able to win in the ACC early....

2011 WON ACC championship, but eyes drilled out 70-33 in the Orange Bowl....back to the drawing board...

2015 ACC Championship and loss to Bama in NC....

So--his takeover at Clemson was akin to Fulmer's takeover at UT...and 7 years later he is 2-1 in ACC championship games...and up to last year was still regarded as the coach who couldn't win the big game.

Jim Harbaugh's takeover at Stanford---and that is more like Jones' situation in taking over at UT--

it took him 4 years to get Stanford to 12-1 and an Orange Bowl win...but no NC...He went 4-8, 5-7, 8-5, 12-1 from 2007 to 2010....And Harbaugh is a MUCH, MUCH better coach than CBJ....

After Harbaugh left--Stanford won the Pac-12 in 2012, 2013, and 2015.....Shaw is still benefiting from the FOUNDATION that HARBAUGH laid down at Stanford--but it was the 5th & 6th year from Harbaugh's takeover in which they actually WON the PAC-12 outright...and they still haven't played for a NC....

Take LSU and Les Miles.....

They win NC with 2 losses 3 years after Saban left him with an absolute LOADED TEAM.....

And it took 7 YEARS at LSU for MILES to build a team good enough to play in the NC game against Saban--and he lost....and we know how it went down hill for him after that....

So yes--to take over a team in the condition UT was in does require about 5-7 years to get to a championship caliber team.....

To take over a good team with reasonable SEC caliber depth it should take at least 4 years....on the average.

And you'd think that at least the JOURNALIST in FineBUTT would do a little research before opening his mouth and proving his ignorance!!!!

 

[MikeVol44]

I agree! He just isn't as far along in his "maturation" process as some other coaches are haha. Saban had no problem. Donkey face didn't take seven years in UF.

Alabama and Florida when Saban and Mr. Ed took over were NO WHERE NEAR the level of emptiness that characterized UT's program.....

But 'ol Mr. Ed hasn't looked too good this year....and may not win the East yet....He still has to beat Arky and LSU to get it done....We still own them head to head if we win out...

Look at Ole Sis.....yeah, they've beaten Bama, but they HAVEN'T PLAYED in the SEC championship game yet....

 

[TacomaJPP]

In all honesty--LOOK AT FINEBUTT--Do you really think that man has EVER worn a jockstrap???

Yes, on his head.

 

[Skizer41]

Alabama and Florida when Saban and Mr. Ed took over were NO WHERE NEAR the level of emptiness that characterized UT's program.....

But 'ol Mr. Ed hasn't looked too good this year....and may not win the East yet....He still has to beat Arky and LSU to get it done....We still own them head to head if we win out...

Look at Ole Sis.....yeah, they've beaten Bama, but they HAVEN'T PLAYED in the SEC championship game yet....

You're right. I think Florida LOOKS good mainly because the east is struggling so bad.

The "maturation" comment was just a joke referring to CBJ constant use of the word in his press conferences haha.

 

[dan4vols]

Finebuam -- longtime UT hater - he's a jerk

And he's a Tennessee graduate, an alumni.

 

[WestTenn]

Knocking Finebaum because he's never worn pads is ridiculous. He enjoys to throw shade at UT but there are other ways of discrediting the man.

Ok.... he's one goofy looking mofo.

 

[nagle]

Lyle couldn't do it in 70.

you guys calling out Lyle need to be exposed by the mods or im calling them out for being one sided.

you cant sit on the fence..either you helping or your not.

 

[QuickSmurf]

Very serious question. What does he know about how a football program should be salvaged from losing to KY,VU,UF,UGA,SC and Missouri? He doesn't know and honestly I dont think that he cares. So his comments carry no weight with me.

 

[PowerSweep]

Knocking Finebaum because he's never worn pads is ridiculous.

No, it is NOT...and I determinedly disagree.....that guy is supposed to be an expert on knowing how to build a championship program???

My point is that you have to have just a little bit of experience in playing a TEAM SPORT in order to have some internal idea of the training and discipline that goes into playing the positions at a level to win championships as a TEAM.....

It's an OXYMORON to ask FINEBUTT how long it should take to win a championship caliber team...

You don't have to be a stud FB player, or even a D-1 player....but you need to know something of what it's like to play a team sport and endure the training and preparation in order to have an idea of what personal dedication and talent it takes....

It took CPF 5 years after taking over a LOADED TEAM to win a NC.....5 YEARS at Tennessee...

What Saban has done at Alabama is one of the RAREST THINGS that has EVER BEEN WITNESSED in all of College Football.... And since Finebutt is a Bama homer--that is where he is drawing his conclusions.

Oklahoma's run in the 50s, Bama's run in the 60s and 70s....Miami's run in the 80s....and maybe FSU and Nebraska in the 90s....are the only thing close...

I lived in Bham from 89-93 and read his stupid articles all that time--his and that imbecile Kevin Scarbinsky.

...and he is, indeed, an EMBARRASSMENT TO THE SEC CHANNEL as the lead ANCHOR of a SPORTING NETWORK! He is a decent journalist--but he is ANYTHING but an expert on the game.... Even some BAMA friends I know can't stand him.....

A few examples:

Dabo Swinney at Clemson--interim in 2008....HC in 2009

2009--took over a very talented Clemson team and was able to win in the ACC early....

2011 WON ACC championship, but eyes drilled out 70-33 in the Orange Bowl....back to the drawing board...

2015 ACC Championship and loss to Bama in NC....

So--his takeover at Clemson was akin to Fulmer's takeover at UT...and 7 years later he is 2-1 in ACC championship games...and up to last year was still regarded as the coach who couldn't win the big game.

Jim Harbaugh's takeover at Stanford---and that is more like Jones' situation in taking over at UT--

it took him 4 years to get Stanford to 12-1 and an Orange Bowl win...but no NC...He went 4-8, 5-7, 8-5, 12-1 from 2007 to 2010....And Harbaugh is a MUCH, MUCH better coach than CBJ....

After Harbaugh left--Stanford won the Pac-12 in 2012, 2013, and 2015.....Shaw is still benefiting from the FOUNDATION that HARBAUGH laid down at Stanford--but it was the 5th & 6th year from Harbaugh's takeover in which they actually WON the PAC-12 outright...and they still haven't played for a NC....

Take LSU and Les Miles.....

They win NC with 2 losses 3 years after Saban left him with an absolute LOADED TEAM.....

And it took 7 YEARS at LSU for MILES to build a team good enough to play in the NC game against Saban--and he lost....and we know how it went down hill for him after that....

So yes--to take over a team in the condition UT was in does require about 5-7 years to get to a championship caliber team.....

To take over a good team with reasonable SEC caliber depth it should take at least 4 years....on the average.

And you'd think that at least the JOURNALIST in FineBUTT would do a little research before opening his mouth and proving his ignorance!!!!

Bull****..you act like people are saying that unless a coach succeeds like saban they should be fired..as if there aren't a bunch of examples beyond saban at peer programs to UT..clemson and stanford obviously aren't and harbaugh was killing it at stanford by now anyway. Let me ask you something...


how long did it take stoops at ou after being under .500 f the 4 yrs that preceded stoops?

how long did it take pete carroll after he inherited a mess?

how long did it take meyer after zook ran that program in the ditch losing 15 games in 3 yrs?

how long did it take saban at lsu after 20 yrs of mediocrity?

how long did it take jimbo fisher at fsu after they had lost 27 games in the 5 yrs before he arrived?

good grief..peterson at washington has them at elite level in yr 3..you either have the right coach or you don't but the right coach doesn't take 5-7 yrs at a historical top 10-15 program...EVER

 

[tnvols72]

you guys calling out Lyle need to be exposed by the mods or im calling them out for being one sided.

you cant sit on the fence..either you helping or your not.

somebody must be getting offended.

 

[QuickSmurf]

Bull****..you act like people are saying that unless a coach succeeds like saban they should be fired..as if there aren't a bunch of examples beyond saban at peer programs to UT..clemson and stanford obviously aren't and harbaugh was killing it at stanford by now anyway. Let me ask you something...


how long did it take stoops at ou after being under .500 f the 4 yrs that preceded stoops?

how long did it take pete carroll after he inherited a mess?

how long did it take meyer after zook ran that program in the ditch losing 15 games in 3 yrs?

how long did it take saban at lsu after 20 yrs of mediocrity?

how long did it take jimbo fisher at fsu after they had lost 27 games in the 5 yrs before he arrived?

good grief..peterson at washington has them at elite level in yr 3..you either have the right coach or you don't but the right coach doesn't take 5-7 yrs at a historical top 10-15 program...EVER

This program hasn't been really anything for a long time. Being arrogant about it doesn't help. Urban Myer lost to Penn State. How long has he been at OSU? These things happen to everyone. Butch s record speaks for it self. There is no way to logically or rationally to say it doesn't. If Tennessee has been something even the last 7 years, why wouldn't even Charlie Strong take the job? You guys have forgotten many things.

 

[PowerSweep]

This program hasn't been really anything for a long time. Being arrogant about it doesn't help. Urban Myer lost to Penn State. How long has he been at OSU? These things happen to everyone. Butch s record speaks for it self. There is no way to logically or rationally to say it doesn't. If Tennessee has been something even the last 7 years, why wouldn't even Charlie Strong take the job? You guys have forgotten many things.

OU hadn't been anything for years

USC hadn't been anything for years

Texas hadn't been anything for years

LSU hadn't been anything for years

You know what changed? They got the right coach

 

[norriscraftbasser]

No way Butch gets 7 years to find out, if he does we will be in same shape as when Dooley was here.