Financial fallout from Schiano, UT could owe buyout

#152
#152
HwyChile said:
If a MOU has language stating it is a contract and it meets the terms of a contract, then it is a contract. I have never seen one that met those requirements but I am in TX. Maybe TN folks do things differently. If so, they may want to rethink what a MOU is and why it is important not to make it binding.
Click to expand...

Universities do all kinds of dumb stuff with contracts. Rick Barnes' MOU has the exact same language as Butch's about the MOU being "binding and legally enforceable." The UT Legal dept probably just pulled the MOU out of the ol' form drawer before Currie headed up to Ohio.
 
#153
#153
Coach Mac Attack said:
MOU is just a meaningless title. You can call it a golf membership. If the language shows an intent to bind schiano and UT, it is binding.
Click to expand...

Correct, but what fool what take a MOU that is supposed to be nonbinding and then make it binding? Maybe the folks at UT? That would be like labeling something a lease and then write language in it to make it a deed to convey title.
 
#154
#154
volberry said:
I don't. UT was already blacklisted. Have you seen a great coach in ten years here? And now it's worse.
Click to expand...

I've seen a school led by incompetent ADs since Dickey retired. Unfit fools running the AD had a lot to do with the inability to find decent coaches. A business major running the AD has no clue what to look for in a coach - coaches just like other professionals are the people who evaluate talent in their own profession. Go back to ex coaches as ADs and you'll have people available to make decent decisions.
 
#155
#155
HwyChile said:
I already commented on that article. I disagree with it but like I wrote if you put in the MOU it is a binding contract then it is a binding contract. I have never seen anyone be that stupid, at least not in TX. Don't know about TN.
Click to expand...

Tom Herman's MOU was a legally binding contract. You can download it. Thought he coached somewhere in Texas where they are apparently all so smart.

P.S.: It's a common practice nationally regardless of the Texas Ranger saying otherwise.
 
#156
#156
Rooster1 said:
It totaled $1 million for Barnes' MOU, for every year of the deal.
Click to expand...

Then the University needs to hire better lawyers. That's never done in the private sector.

Worst I've seen was a merger of a 4 billion company and 6 billion company, and that was $20 million penalty on an 8 billion buyout.

$5 million on a $20 million deal? That's insanity.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#157
#157
"A memorandum of understanding (MOU) is a nonbinding agreement between two or more parties outlining the terms and details of an understanding, including each parties' requirements and responsibilities. An MOU is often the first stage in the formation of a formal contract." See Memorandum of Understanding (MOU)

That is what I consider a MOU. No wonder UT football is so screwed up.
 
#158
#158
HwyChile said:
I am an attorney and you are not. That is why you did not understand anything I wrote. A MOU is supposed to be nonbinding and it has language making it non-binding. If folks at UT make them binding that is their mistake.
Click to expand...


Oh I understand "everything" you wrote. That is why I quoted you. You may claim to be an attorney, might even be one. But you are the one that does not understand what you said, because by stating that an MOU is supposed to be nonbinding, you totally lost the legal understanding of possibilities inherent in such documents.
 
#159
#159
Rooster1 said:
Tom Herman's MOU was a legally binding contract. You can download it. Thought he coached somewhere in Texas where they are apparently all so smart.

P.S.: It's a common practice nationally regardless of the Texas Ranger saying otherwise.
Click to expand...

Where's the link?
 
#160
#160
HwyChile said:
"A memorandum of understanding (MOU) is a nonbinding agreement between two or more parties outlining the terms and details of an understanding, including each parties' requirements and responsibilities. An MOU is often the first stage in the formation of a formal contract." See Memorandum of Understanding (MOU)

That is what I consider a MOU. No wonder UT football is so screwed up.
Click to expand...

Found that on the computer heh?
 
#161
#161
HwyChile said:
Normally a MOU is non-binding and not a contract. Therefore, no money is owed if a real contract is never signed. The most I could see him getting would be any actual expenses he incurred up to the point UT backed out, probably a few thousand and certainly not millions. By the way, I am an attorney in TX.
Click to expand...

I am in Florida and I agree with you. However, UT gives MOUs that are simply the contract terms in bare bones form and are fully enforceable. However, if I recall correctly, UT usually leaves a time period of a week or so to do due diligence regarding criminal background check.

Note - I am not saying that this is the form they used this time or that they could get out in the due diligence period. This is just what I remember in the past.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#162
#162
Rooster1 said:
Oh I understand "everything" you wrote. That is why I quoted you. You may claim to be an attorney, might even be one. But you are the one that does not understand what you said, because by stating that an MOU is supposed to be nonbinding, you totally lost the legal understanding of possibilities inherent in such documents.
Click to expand...

When a documents states is is a non-binding document that is not a contract and there will be no contract until the parties enter into a written contract in the future, it is non-binding. That is how MOU's are drafted, but evidently UT changes this and makes them binding. Believe what you want. If UT was dumb enough to make it binding they owe the man damages. Simple as that.
 
#164
#164
HwyChile said:
I am an attorney and you are not. That is why you did not understand anything I wrote. A MOU is supposed to be nonbinding and it has language making it non-binding. If folks at UT make them binding that is their mistake.
Click to expand...

The devil is in the details, its very hard to draw any type of legal conclusion without the agreement. I am no expert on this type of agreement but agreements can be written all kinds of ways.

I mean just one simple statement like, "Parties agree to complete a more detailed agreement to supersede and formalize this agreement in good faith", could make the agreement a binding contract.

With that said, I am sure Tennessee wouldn't have liked it, if he had turned around and say on December 19th and told Tennessee he isn't going to formalize it... they certainly probably would look for potential recourse, if any.
 
#165
#165
Rooster1 said:
Found that on the computer heh?
Click to expand...

Where would you want me to find it. Do you want me to upload one of my LOI or MOU forms that I use on a daily basis? I just googled MOU to see what a generally accepted definition is and that link is what I got and what I know them to be, which is non-binding first step toward drafting a contract.
 
#166
#166
HwyChile said:
Thank you. To be honest, I wish I would have never got involved in this thread. I do this for a living and I have folks on here who think they are lawyers.
Click to expand...

I added some caveats because I think UT (and maybe college sports in general) handle MOUs differently than I have by making them enforceable. Seem stupid, but I am sure there is a reason.
 
#167
#167
LSU-SIU said:
The devil is in the details, its very hard to draw any type of legal conclusion without the agreement. I am no expert on this type of agreement but agreements can be written all kinds of ways.

I mean just one simple statement like, "Parties agree to complete a more detailed agreement to supersede and formalize this agreement in good faith", could make the agreement a binding contract.

With that said, I am sure Tennessee wouldn't have liked it, if he had turned around and say on December 19th and told Tennessee he isn't going to formalize it... they certainly probably would look for potential recourse, if any.
Click to expand...

But that's my point. Regardless of what they call it, if they put that this is binding in it, it's a contract. It may detail penalties if it is not superseded by a certain date or some activity, such as board approval, but those will be specifically defined.

And they shouldn't be 25% of the total deal. Again, that's just crazy, and could be argued as malfeasance. depending on what others in the similar industry do.

I admit, I am not used to such deals in the public University realm. But I do see quite large deals in the business world, and a mutual agreement to end a MOU or initial LOU would not be cause for such a large buyout.
 
#168
#168
HwyChile said:
Where would you want me to find it. Do you want me to upload one of my LOI or MOU forms that I use on a daily basis? I just googled MOU to see what a generally accepted definition is and that link is what I got and what I know them to be, which is non-binding first step toward drafting a contract.
Click to expand...

You make many valid points for sure, as I mention I am not real familiar with these types of agreements but the wording definitely doesn't have to be standardized.

If I were to guess as to why they need binding languages is the coach is more or less starting immediately, and it could take the school weeks if not months to even sign off on a more formalized agreement. Technically, he could have already been working for Tennessee to get a staff together. idk I do know at LSU it can take a considerable amount of time to formalize the coaches contract.
 
#169
#169
TN_Transplant said:
But that's my point. Regardless of what they call it, if they put that this is binding in it, it's a contract. It may detail penalties if it is not superseded by a certain date or some activity, such as board approval, but those will be specifically defined.

And they shouldn't be 25% of the total deal. Again, that's just crazy, and could be argued as malfeasance. depending on what others in the similar industry do.

I admit, I am not used to such deals in the public University realm. But I do see quite large deals in the business world, and a mutual agreement to end a MOU or initial LOU would not be cause for such a large buyout.
Click to expand...

Yeah, whatever you call it, my take is Tennessee probably has an obligation to work in "good faith" to formalize it unless there is some legal reason why they can't, generally speaking. Technically, he could already be a Tennessee employee, I mean, none of us know how long this has been going on. Just for instance.

Having binding language seems like a no brainer to a certain degree, as I mentioned in that prior post - the coach starts immediately or soon after... yet it could take months to formalize the agreement further.

Devil is in the details.
 
#170
#170
So did Shiano quit his job at OSU? How can he be a Tennessee head coach while still employed elsewhere as an assistant? Did OSU hire him back?
 
#171
#171
ClearwaterVol said:
I added some caveats because I think UT (and maybe college sports in general) handle MOUs differently than I have by making them enforceable. Seem stupid, but I am sure there is a reason.
Click to expand...

Right. There can be no "buyout" regarding an MOU. Probably some "negotiation" to avert a full-blown lawsuit, but Schiano wants no part of keeping this as a headline IMO.

Just posted on SI:

LEGAL AND REPUTATIONAL CONSIDERATIONS FOR SCHIANO

It is very possible, if not likely, that Schiano and Tennessee avert a lawsuit over the awkward end of their brief courtship. Attorneys for both sides could work out a settlement that is considered mutually acceptable. Even if Schiano is angry about how Tennessee treated him, he may not want to expend the necessary time and energy to wage a lawsuit against the school. Instead, he probably wants to return his professional focus to serving as Ohio State’s defensive coordinator—especially with the Buckeyes playing Wisconsin this Saturday in the Big Ten championship game.

Greg Schiano, Tennessee'''s memorandum of understanding, explained | SI.com
 
Last edited:
#172
#172
I'd love to know the timetable on this MOU, if it was truly signed weeks ago then all of this posturing with Mullen is as bad as Hamilton with Patterson.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#173
#173
secking said:
Btw, lots of stories coming out saying McQuery lied and Schiano is innocent. Don’t use Washington Post, they are worthless and less credible than guys who likes turtles.
Click to expand...

Washington Post isn't a credible news source? Who do you consider to be a reliable source? VolNation posters?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#174
#174
HwyChile said:
If the memorandum of understanding was drafted correctly, it is 100% non-binding and should clearly state that it is not a contract. Either party can back out for any reason or no reason at all without any consequences. Of course, it may have been drafted incorrectly or they may have put a clause of some type for damages in case they could not negotiate a contract. Ohio law could also be different (they are weird Northerners after all).
Click to expand...

Hope you're right, Saul!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top