Finally, Help for Shield-Watkins Field

[BigThunder]

That's not accurate. Including the open practice, the team practiced at Neyland 4 times during fall camp, which is the same as the last two years and 3 or 4 times fewer than Fulmer's teams practiced there.

It is true that is more than they did under Dooley, he was not a proponent of practicing on the game field. One season, they only practiced there twice before the opener. But Dooley is the exception, rather than the rule.




Butch would prefer turf, but he understands that is not going to happen here under any circumstances. The issues are not overblown.




The players are allowed to use whatever model Nike cleat they prefer. There are varying cleat lengths, but the "speed" cleats that Nike makes for the skill position players only have the shorter 3/8 spikes.

There are other models available with longer or changeable spikes, and some players have begun wearing those. Longer spikes do come with a higher risk of injury, which is why Nike recommends the shorter spike.

DP, a few days back you told me that getting artificial turf was not an option. And I definitley believe you, but I was wondering what your opinion on it was. Have the days passed where artificial turf was an injury liability? Also, what direction do you think the AD/groundscrew will go in next (besides hiring someone else)? Do we go with a new type of grass?

 

[vol66]

I was at Farragut High School after their playoff loss, last Friday. I looked at the playing surface very closely.

It was in excellent condition.

I watched the entire game and I don't recall anyone slipping or losing their footing.

If Farragut High School can grow and maintain and excellent playing surface then why can't UT?

Same with Fulton, walked on it, it was great! Starting to go brown like all the Bermuda in North Knoxville this time of year, but in great playable condition.

 

[vol66]

Wow.
No other words.

That's the way I feel too. It's hard to believe the amount of human resources available that went un-tapped 'til too late here.

 

[livefaith]

In both games that I've attended this year (OU, Ark) I have noticed a wide slightly faded swatch where the Vols come out of the tunnel and acroiss the checkerboard EZ. Could see it on one of the games I watched on TV too. Thought to myself "I've never seen this before" and "that's seems kinda weak for just one game day".

Has anyone ever noticed this before this season?

 

[VolNExile]

Pretty sure that specialist right down the road was all for hiring the current guy and is Still in his corner today

Please post what you know here, because this is 180 degrees opposite from what was posted here (at the time that you posted.) Not calling you out, but there's obviously a lot of BS floating around. :hi:

eta: after kicking DH#1 to the curb, who actually had some serious insider info, I am back among the ignorant unwashed, so other than reading posts here and picking up on the (frequent) contradictions, I make no claims to insider knowledge.

And I'm pretty damn happy about this, although I do miss the pizza burgers with Pat and her crew. :hi:

Go Vols!

 

[DeerPark12]

When I was at Farragut I remember the football coach never let anyone on the field. The band kids never understood why the couldn't practice on it. Well it turns out the more traffic, the worse off the conditions will be. Doesn't jones hold various practices, more than previous coaches, in Neyland?

Not during the season, no.

 

[DeerPark12]

I was at Farragut High School after their playoff loss, last Friday. I looked at the playing surface very closely.

It was in excellent condition.

I watched the entire game and I don't recall anyone slipping or losing their footing.

If Farragut High School can grow and maintain and excellent playing surface then why can't UT?

For one thing, a high school game is shorter and less strenuous on a field than a college game.

The biggest factor there is Farragut's field is on the south side of a hill, meaning it gets direct sunlight all day. That really helps with growth.

 

[DeerPark12]

I was just told by someone who should know: " I'll tell you what the problem is...Butch is using the field too much for practices. And he runs his camps on the field during the summer."

Any truth to this? We actually practice at Neyland during the season? I thought that is what Haslam Field is for. And, IIRC, Fulmer never used Neyland for practices or for camps...only for games.

They do use it some for camps in the summer, but that has always been done. The team does not practice on the field during the season at all, but have four or five practices on it during fall camp, which is the same or less than under Fulmer.

 

[thebjd]

For one thing, a high school game is shorter and less strenuous on a field than a college game.

The biggest factor there is Farragut's field is on the south side of a hill, meaning it gets direct sunlight all day. That really helps with growth.

A 100,000 seat stadium might block some sunlight as well.

 

[ajvol01]

Not no.

Not Hell No.

But Hell Effin NO!

How about Tartan turf? That's what I grew up watching the Vols play on.

 

[DeerPark12]

Deer one other question if you know

Does jones expect the field in "game day" shape for recruiting events and visits more than our precious coaches?

Not really, but that is not a simple yes or no answer.

Under every coach that I can remember, they would have the field in "game day" shape green and painted every weekend in January and February.

Typically, they would let it die out a little bit after the spring game, then start a maintenance cycle in May.

The current groundskeeper is in favor of re-sodding every year, regardless of anything else. Because of this philosophy, there is less attention paid to the long term health of the field during the offseason, because the grass is going to be ripped up in the summer anyway. So, yes, there are more activities in the spring that put strain on the grass, but they would not be done if the grass was not going to be replaced. The extra things are taken on because a new surface is coming.

 

[DeerPark12]

Fair enough.

Those things came from someone that would be in the know but I know the deal with "sources" here so take it all fwiw

The bottom line here is very simple. The field is in the condition it is in because the current groundskeeper maintains the field like he maintained the baseball field in Houston, and the golf courses that he has been in charge of.

It looks green and lush right up until the moment where football players run over it in cleats. He did not have that problem in Houston, nor did he have it on the golf course. He is perfectly capable of growing a field that looks good, but his proven inept at maintaining one that holds up to the rigors of football over the course of a season.

I would hire him tomorrow if I was operating a golf course that needed to look perfect. But I would not let him maintain any surface that is going to be regularly torn up. That is not in his skill set, that is just kind of the way it is.

 

[NEVolFan]

It's Dormacy, for crying out loud! DORMACY!!!

Ok... But will he play vs. Missouri?

 

[VolNExile]

Pretty sure that specialist right down the road was all for hiring the current guy and is Still in his corner today

OK, what am I missing here, since other posts have said that he's being run out of town?

 

[Vols316]

It is extremely difficult to get roots to grow deep when you resod every year. We should consider doing what they did at Lambeau field. The top level of the field system is 12 inches of root-zone sand and Kentucky bluegrass turf (change the grass type to something better for Knoxville.) DD GrassMaster synthetic fibers are stitched into the surface, providing strength and stability to the field. Fibers extend approximately seven inches below the surface and are exposed approximately one inch above the surface and are spaced every three-quarters of an inch. Approximately 20 million individual stitches make up the process.
Under the field is a clay sub-grade level, compacted and graded (with a .6 percent slope), including drain tile, irrigation pipe and thermostat wiring for the heating system. The second level consists of 5½ inches of pea gravel.

 

[TnScooby]

The biggest red flag I heard on the radio was they aerated in July. That should be early spring or atleast after the spring game.

Actually they aerated it in August, which is even worse..Most experts agree you should NEVER aerate a field after May, which is still almost too close to football season..Mid to late April would be the latest according to most experts..

Former Head Groundskeeper Bobby Campbell never resodded the field..I find it absolutely ridiculous that since Campbell left they find it necessary to constantly resod, paying $100,000 for regular sod and $200,000 for thick sod each time..

Hire Campbell as a consultant and retain the services of your very own world renowned authority Dr. John Sorochan to insure that the Neyland surface never again becomes the issue that it unfortunately is now..

 

[governmentmule]

just throw some Kentucky 31 on it and a load of bakker sticks after the last game and fertilize it come spring

and dig up all that sand and other crap and fill it with some good red dirt,so we can have some good mud games come late fall that would be cheap and ineffective,but save a boat load of money

they could also have players in the dog house use push mowers on it to save on labor cost and gas during the off season


oh and piss on it a lot too :crazy:

 

[BruinVol]

OK, what am I missing here, since other posts have said that he's being run out of town?

Hopefully Deerpark can address this because he seems to make most of what I was told more believable

I was told he turf specialist at UT endorsed Seybold when he was hired and are still supportive of him.

The second part of that seems harder to beeline but it was the main reason given for the hope he might keep his job.

 

[SPRINGHILLVOL]

Issue may be jones overuses the field... not giving the field any off season rest ad wanting a green surface year round. see Tony Basilio note on current grasskeeper...

....Why is that Darren Seybold's other fields on that campus at EVERY OTHER natural grass venue are spotless with wonderful playing fields? The Lady Vols soccer stadium is immaculate. Both the softball and baseball fields are wonderful. The track is spotless yet the football field is mess. I'll help you out here. Every other aforementioned surface has down time and is not re sodded every year. I'll give you another nugget. Sources told me late last night that Seybold wanted to top dress the playing field in Neyland Stadium but was rebuffed by the football staff. The purpose of top dressing is to make the field less slick while this also helps keep the surface together during use. Plus, Tennessee hasn't been using a 1/2 inch cleat. Instead, they've been using a 3/8 inch cleat on that surface. This hasn't helped matters..

What has Hart done to handle this situation? never had this issue with previous grasskeeper.. cause may be the way Jones overuses the field year round...
Could hurt recruiting ..Why go to Tennessee and blow out your knee with the horrible field conditions?

 

[BruinVol]

Issue may be jones overuses the field... not giving the field any off season rest ad wanting a green surface year round. see Tony Basilio note on current grasskeeper...

....Why is that Darren Seybold's other fields on that campus at EVERY OTHER natural grass venue are spotless with wonderful playing fields? The Lady Vols soccer stadium is immaculate. Both the softball and baseball fields are wonderful. The track is spotless yet the football field is mess. I'll help you out here. Every other aforementioned surface has down time and is not re sodded every year. I'll give you another nugget. Sources told me late last night that Seybold wanted to top dress the playing field in Neyland Stadium but was rebuffed by the football staff. The purpose of top dressing is to make the field less slick while this also helps keep the surface together during use. Plus, Tennessee hasn't been using a 1/2 inch cleat. Instead, they've been using a 3/8 inch cleat on that surface. This hasn't helped matters..

What has Hart done to handle this situation? never had this issue with previous grasskeeper.. cause may be the way Jones overuses the field year round...
Could hurt recruiting ..Why go to Tennessee and blow out your knee with the horrible field conditions?

Well either TonyB has been reading my post or he is confirming them

 

[UT-Rex]

No sunlight restrictions, and more northern lat, but here's Yale Univ's 11.7.2015 playing surface -- Yale vs Brown, 11-7-15 (Photo's by Steve Musco) - Yale Bulldogs

"To keep the natural playing surface in the Yale Bowl in pristine condition, the staff aerates the soil and performs sand-top dressing. "This has been done for about 15 years, so they are now at a point where we don’t want to add much more sand,” said Pepe. “After every football game we hand-rake the entire field and use a seed divot mix. This really helps keep the integrity of the field.” By doing this after every game, the surface has been kept very true and the grade has not changed. While most fields will belly or flatten out over time, the Yale Bowl has kept a uniform surface, requiring minimal sodding. “We haven’t had to sod our football field in three or four years,” said Pepe. “The areas that we do sod would be soccer and lacrosse goal creases.”"

"Yale’s groundskeepers perform aerifying in May and August in an effort to avoid the main playing seasons. They overseed all of the playing surfaces with bluegrass. In the fall during the football season, perennial rye mix is used for divot repair. “We do have budget restrictions,” said Tom Pepe, Sports Turf Supervisor. “So we keep overseeding often and watch our water management.”"

Key: "budget restrictions" -- wasn't our SWF turf crew approved to increase its annual budget from $100k, to $400k+ ? And look where we are now -- just amazing.

 

[BruinVol]

No sunlight restrictions, and more northern lat, but here's Yale Univ's 11.7.2015 playing surface -- Yale vs Brown, 11-7-15 (Photo's by Steve Musco) - Yale Bulldogs

"To keep the natural playing surface in the Yale Bowl in pristine condition, the staff aerates the soil and performs sand-top dressing. "This has been done for about 15 years, so they are now at a point where we don’t want to add much more sand,” said Pepe. “After every football game we hand-rake the entire field and use a seed divot mix. This really helps keep the integrity of the field.” By doing this after every game, the surface has been kept very true and the grade has not changed. While most fields will belly or flatten out over time, the Yale Bowl has kept a uniform surface, requiring minimal sodding. “We haven’t had to sod our football field in three or four years,” said Pepe. “The areas that we do sod would be soccer and lacrosse goal creases.”"

"Yale’s groundskeepers perform aerifying in May and August in an effort to avoid the main playing seasons. They overseed all of the playing surfaces with bluegrass. In the fall during the football season, perennial rye mix is used for divot repair. “We do have budget restrictions,” said Tom Pepe, Sports Turf Supervisor. “So we keep overseeding often and watch our water management.”"

Key: "budget restrictions" -- wasn't our SWF turf crew approved to increase its annual budget from $100k, to $400k+ ? And look where we are now -- just amazing.

Comparing Yale to tenn isn't going to cut it.

Different kind of grass and climate

 

[turn3]

A 100,000 seat stadium might block some sunlight as well.

Exactly why they been using grow lights.

 

[UT-Rex]

Comparing Yale to tenn isn't going to cut it.

Different kind of grass and climate

Ok -- Not sure who you are defending, when it's known we have an ongoing and serious, costly problem.

In general, both regions enjoy hot summers and no dry season / humid climates -- regardless, each turf mgr should be an expert in his respective climate region.

The main point is, YU emphasizes its turf budget, while we continue annually-ripping up entire turf / throwing $ in the amount of $300k increased turf budget with poor, dangerous, home-team play-call-altering results.

 

[Bukowskified]

Issue may be jones overuses the field... not giving the field any off season rest ad wanting a green surface year round. see Tony Basilio note on current grasskeeper...

....Why is that Darren Seybold's other fields on that campus at EVERY OTHER natural grass venue are spotless with wonderful playing fields? The Lady Vols soccer stadium is immaculate. Both the softball and baseball fields are wonderful. The track is spotless yet the football field is mess. I'll help you out here. Every other aforementioned surface has down time and is not re sodded every year. I'll give you another nugget. Sources told me late last night that Seybold wanted to top dress the playing field in Neyland Stadium but was rebuffed by the football staff. The purpose of top dressing is to make the field less slick while this also helps keep the surface together during use. Plus, Tennessee hasn't been using a 1/2 inch cleat. Instead, they've been using a 3/8 inch cleat on that surface. This hasn't helped matters..

What has Hart done to handle this situation? never had this issue with previous grasskeeper.. cause may be the way Jones overuses the field year round...
Could hurt recruiting ..Why go to Tennessee and blow out your knee with the horrible field conditions?

DP already clarified that Jones isn't overusing the field. He uses it more than Dooley but less than coaches pre-Dooley. Also have we seen anything that says that the grounds keeper is responsible for all of these other fields? I know baseball has an entire grounds crew and I'm sure the other sports do to. Also to say that the grass inside of the track was perfect is a joke. First off there is a major construction project that currently has all of that torn up so there isn't actually currently a field. Secondly I have been out there many times when there was grass and it was literally full of holes. Scattered randomly throughout the grass were holes that were 3 to 4 inches across and a couple inches deep. I was made to understand these were the result of discus, shot put, and javelin toss.