Fed up with the pessimism.... this is a new team with a new coach, a new leader and a new "Father"

#51
#51
I'm as optimistic as they come until I get a reason to not be optimistic. The man's specialty is QB developing and high powered offenses everywhere he has been a coach OC/HC at. The man has never had a defense to match his offenses....that is all I see what he has been lacking at UCF. If he can build a solid unit here...then the rest will be good. He had a few games last season that were a score away from being W's in a COVID season...no one is going to go 12-0 every single season...even Saban can't do that with his miniNFL teams.

Can he recruit so many are worried about on here? Well....he has the deck stacked against him right out of the gate thanks to Pruitt. I do think once he gets his offensive system installed this fun to watch offense will start recruiting itself...early playing time, rack up video game yardage, and score lots of TD's...doesn't sound that bad as an offensive recruit.

We have enough talent on this team if the chemistry builds to win every OOC game and honestly every SEC game but Bama, UF, and UGA. We have recruited better than every one of those other programs even with the portal transfers. Hate on that if you want but Heupel has a lot more positives than most of you give him. He ain't Dooley, Butch, or Pruitt....and he is better than Kiffin because he's beat his ass twice. And many on here hating on Heupel wanted that bum back as HC during this search...how ironic.
 
Last edited:
#52
#52
I’m just being a realist, which you Fulmerites absolutely hate and try to make into trolls.

After ‘99, Fulmer never beat a decent Bama team but maybe once. We were dominant in the 90’s but he had a losing percentage against Spurrier so, beating Bama during their down years didn’t really do much for us.

The above quote was the first thing on google. So, if you don’t like it, complain to google and ESPN.

"beating Bama during their down years........." LMAO, so what's Bama doing to us now, beating us during our down years? How many 10 wins season have we had in Bama's current run against us? How 'bout SEC Champs? At the end of the day, Fulmer 11, Gumps 5.
 
#53
#53
I’m just being a realist, which you Fulmerites absolutely hate and try to make into trolls.

After ‘99, Fulmer never beat a decent Bama team but maybe once. We were dominant in the 90’s but he had a losing percentage against Spurrier so, beating Bama during their down years didn’t really do much for us.

The above quote was the first thing on google. So, if you don’t like it, complain to google and ESPN.
Fulmer was only as good as Cutcliffe and Chief made him to be. Look at what happened once Cutcliffe went to Ole Miss....a lot of NFL talent wasted on what should have been a couple more NC's on his belt....just saying. Fulmer out talented other programs during that span. He fielded superior athletes and that was the difference in a lot of games before Urban Meyer showed up at Florida.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Remy and GoVols15
#54
#54
Fulmer was only as good as Cutcliffe and Chief made him to be. Look at what happened once Cutcliffe went to Ole Miss....a lot of NFL talent wasted on what should have been a couple more NC's on his belt....just saying. Fulmer out talented other programs during that span. He fielded superior athletes and that was the difference in a lot of games before Urban Meyer showed up at Florida.

maybe u intended Spurrier here
 
  • Like
Reactions: VolFaninFla
#55
#55
"So sucking until they prove otherwise" equates to "wait and see" how exactly?

Those are mutually exclusive ideas, even though they're included in the same statement. Hence, one is fully capable of being a fan of a crappy program while waiting to see actual evidence of it getting better . . . that's not pessimism, it's realism.
 
#56
#56
tarvol73,Good write-up.Heupel is who is here now and his record" regression"from 12-0 to 6-4 does not show the opt outs in 20,the loss of qb to injury,three losses by ,I think,6 points or less including a 2 point loss to Cinn. Bearcats with Luke Fickel that everybody drools over.Josh will get it done here.I believe this with all my orange heart.Now let us begin to kick some ass.
 
#59
#59
Those are mutually exclusive ideas, even though they're included in the same statement. Hence, one is fully capable of being a fan of a crappy program while waiting to see actual evidence of it getting better . . . that's not pessimism, it's realism.
No. Assuming that something is bad is no more "realistic" than assuming it is good.

To say that they "suck" until they prove different is very much mutually exclusive to "wait and see". If you are waiting to see... then you don't make any conclusive judgments... until you literally see.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 24/7vol
#60
#60
To the OP. You make a bunch of assumptions that aren't necessarily true.

Dooley had an ego... all coaches do. But he was in over his head in every respect and knew it early in year 2. He was ready to humble himself, take a reduced buyout, and leave after that year. The AD convinced him to stay and try another year. The ill-fated Sunseri experiment left him emotionally broken and DONE. He wasn't an awful guy who was trying to sink UT football. He was simply a guy without the talent to take on the Herculean task of fixing what was wrong at UT. His personality with recruits didn't help. He's more worthy of pity than contempt.

Jones was a used car salesman with a Donald Trump ego.... but nothing like the competence. He had one "skill". He could sell BS. He brought in a team talented enough to win the SEC and promptly mis-coached them to underperform in all 5 years. The only guy I can think of who came close to criminally squandering talent like he did is Mark Richt... except Richt is a guy you could like and respect. He simply did not have the skill as a coach of the game either in development of players or in game to succeed at this level no matter how much talent he was able to sign.

Pruitt was pretty close to Jones' opposite. (The arrogant stuff about his accent, background, et al duly noted. I'm sure all "hicks and hillbillies" that do not speak as well as the OP are stupid and lesser people too). He is a "football coach". Want evidence? He was fired and almost immediately picked up by an NFL team. Jones was fired and spent how many years as a GA at Bama? What he is not is a leader capable of being at the top of a football program. You can coach a group of LB's under someone else with his style. You cannot lead a program made up of coaches, assistants, medical staff, S&C staff, administrative staff, academic support staff, logistics, equipment management, etc without having a leadership style that sets a clear vision and positively motivates people toward it. Look up the "Peter Principle" and you'll see why Pruitt was such an abject failure. It isn't because he doesn't know football or can't coach a group of guys. It is because he lacks leadership ability.

The last 2 failed miserably at the one skill that every leader must have to succeed. They were incapable of surrounding themselves with the right people. Dooley until Sunseri actually did a better job than those two of hiring assistants.

These are all flawed guys brought in to do a very difficult job... and failed. They're not "evil". They didn't take UT on purpose. Every one of them saw an opportunity soar in their careers by resurrecting one of CFB's great programs. Some of the reasons they failed were predictable.... Jones lack of actual football acumen for sure. Some weren't so easy to see.

We are where we are. Some don't like the turnover but the absolute worse thing you can do is keep a coach who isn't getting it done.

Can't win, right? Lincoln faced General RE Lee. The Civil War had to be won in Virginia to be won. Lee with an inferior force and supplies out-generaled the Union repeatedly. Much like Washington in the Revolution, many times "victory" was simply keeping his army together and in good order. He believed that he could win precisely like Washington did by stringing it out and at some point finding a decisive battle. He was brilliant. His soldiers were often more motivated. Stonewall Jackson was superior to any other General on either side prior to his untimely death and enabled Lee greater freedom to maneuver.

Lincoln hired, and fired, 5 very highly respected Generals to go against Lee in less than 4 years. McDowell, McClellan, Burnside, Hooker, and Meade. Finally he found a guy that was largely considered an unintelligent drunk. Unlike the others he wasn't all that interested in the press, politics, or image. He wasn't scared of Lee and seemed to be the first one to recognize that he had a vastly superior force. His one, overriding trait that made him successful was aggression. He wanted to be on the attack all the time. Far from being brilliant, he simply realized that if he marched on Richmond that Lee would have to put his army in front of his own... and the war would be over.

Point is that Lincoln hired and fired "good" guys before finding Grant who communicated a "vision" and then aligned his troops and officers to that vision. If he had stuck with McDowell or even McClellan... then there's a good chance the South would have won since they never seemed ready to attack.

Lee like Admiral Yamamoto knew that he could not win the war if it lasted longer than a couple of years. The north had the industrial resources and manpower to overwhelm the confederacy. Same in WW2 with the US and Japan. Yamamoto knew he had to knock out the US Navy Carriers out at Midway since it wasn’t done at Pearl Harbor. If they didn’t succeed there once the US geared up it’s industrial power it was over.

Same with Lee and that’s why he marched to Gettysburg. It was the knock out blow to the Union and march to DC. What determined the battle at Gettysburg ? Jeb Stuart was supposed to arrive early, recon the terrain and hold it if necessary till Lee’s army arrived. He arrived too late. A union artillery detachment that rode up from DC took one of the ridges and sent a messenger to get the rest of the army ASAP to seize the other high grown. If that union detachment doesn’t beat Stuart to the high ground Lee probably wins at Gettysburg and therefore has a clear shot to DC. Now you know the rest of the story.
 
#64
#64
No. Assuming that something is bad is no more "realistic" than assuming it is good.

To say that they "suck" until they prove different is very much mutually exclusive to "wait and see". If you are waiting to see... then you don't make any conclusive judgments... until you literally see.

You're over analyzing what I wrote. It's pretty simple. Generally, the Vols have a less than mediocre reputation, built on 15 + years of poor performance (i.e., that's the "suck" part). Until they prove otherwise, that's who they are. I'm waiting to see improvement, but I can still be fan while "I wait to see" that improvement.

I have no need to humor you any further.
 
#65
#65
maybe u intended Spurrier here
No he was out recruiting the SEC for most of his career….by the time Meyer showed up he was losing guys to Saban, Richt, Meyer, Miles, and Spurrier.

That was the time where all these teams were now fielding as equal or more talented teams. Then he started getting out coached. With no Cutcliffe the wheels began coming off again.

Ironically Mike DeBord was interviewed for the OC job. He’d just lit up Meyer with Mullen OC, Strong DC, and Tebow at QB. He spent the off season summer prior to his final year at Michigan learning the Colts shotgun hurry up spread system with Manning and his OC Tom Moore. Lloyd Carr refused to let him open it up until that bowl game. We had a very similar roster on offense that fit that system perfectly here. Fulmer hired Clawson & Fulmer got fired.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sjt18
#66
#66
You're over analyzing what I wrote. It's pretty simple. Generally, the Vols have a less than mediocre reputation, built on 15 + years of poor performance (i.e., that's the "suck" part). Until they prove otherwise, that's who they are. I'm waiting to see improvement, but I can still be fan while "I wait to see" that improvement.

I have no need to humor you any further.
LOL... I have no doubt that you have no "need" to recognize that you either contradicted yourself or else stated it in a way that did not convey what you meant. You would have come off better if you'd simply said, "that's not what I meant, let me rephrase it"... but apparently pride won't let you own such a small error.
 
#67
#67
22avtw.gif
The Eternal Vol pessimist (Butthead) versus Eternal Vol optimist (Coach Buzzcut).....UT football program (Beavis)
 
#68
#68
It's a public forum. Choose to read it or not. I couldn't care less.

Sped read it. Not a top 10 post. What's got you triggered if not BVS?

The proof will be in the pudding. Regardless of how talented the Vols might be and how underdeveloped they were, did Pruitt's average recruiting class break the top 6 in the SEC? And the talent haul he did have is mostly gone. I'm tired of being pumped up every season to get kicked in the groin most years since 2007. This morning the SEC Network ranked Tennessee's game day atmosphere as 2nd most underrated. That's a back handed compliment. Vanderbilt was freakin' third because it's in Nashville. "When Tennessee has it rolling, Neyland is as electric as anyplace in the country." There's a few key words in there, (has it rolling). Tired of the pessimism? Win games. Period.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: knoxvol16
#69
#69
Fulmer was a good coach at the beginning from his interim period through however many years, until he wasn't. Then there was Lane, who bonded almost as an equal with the younger crowd as he was still so young, like an older brother. His team reflected that as the players loved him but they also acted the part of kids. And then he was gone. Then there was Dooley. He shirked his duties with a sense of entitlement, perhaps due to being Vince Dooley's spoiled kid. Then there was Butch. He is what he is. I won't go there. Finally Pruitt. Though I wanted to like him, a coach with terrible grammar, a N Alabama hillbilly, who could coach or so I thought. In the end, he was a disciplinarian at best and an abusive hick or worse, with no sense of being able to run a whole team in the end. Heupel is the only one since Fulmer to have had to truly had to work for it. He is not only preaching daily perseverance, he is living it with no crazy highs and lows, just steady improvement and encouragement, a balanced show of love and discipline. It will show in the win-loss column.


This is a quote from njvols in the Best TN OLs Since Sliced Bread thread, "Net talent is probably about the same as last year, but because of the scheme, it could end up better, if JH offense is as advertised.' I am aware that his response is referring to the OL, but I would argue that the overall talent is equal or better than last year. Last year was an underachievement of epic proportions. The 2019 season saw Tennessee go 8-5 with UT winning its last 6 games. This was in spite of JG being the QB. He may have been playing his best but he was in no way a high caliber SEC QB. Flash forward to 2020, CoVid, and everything else. The team wins the first two games then is up UGA at half. We all know that they fell apart but they were on an 8 game winning streak. One could argue that this was the best that they could do, but I would argue that the ensuing implosion was the worst that they could have done and a better coaching staff would have done better than the 8 streak.

Pruitt was an ass of epic proportions. He literally could not have gotten less out of his players if he had tried. He could recruit or at least we thought he could although it is quite possible he and his staff just anteed up more than the others. He was as bad a head coach as you could be. He fired his DL coach 4 games in. I cannot go further in explaining how bad he was. Some coaches get more from less, and then there is Pruitt. If he had fallen off the face of the earth and Cheney or Ansley had been interim coach, the team could have easily gone 6-4, maybe better. And he was incredibly abusive.

I am tired off hearing about our supposed lack of talent. I am tired of hearing that there aren't enough 4 or 5 stars. It is not true. We have the "star" talent to be top 6 in the SEC. Heupel's teams from Mizzou to UCF have done much more with less. There is quite a bit of talent on the field. The problem over many years has been the coaching, not always the Xs and Os, but more importantly the psychological side, the fatherly aspect and it has been sorely lacking.

College Football is a game played in the mind as much as in the training room and on the field. The "Game" could be looked at as a coming of age, a time in which these young people go from being kids to men. The coach is certainly a surrogate father and as such the players take on his personality to a large extent with help from the assistant coaches. They might be considered uncles. Players emulate and act accordingly regarding their influences. Of course they act out at times and some players just do their own thing, BUT a team which has bought in largely follows the lead of the HC and coaches. With a better team, one that holds each other accountable, they will fall in line.

I am aware of Battered Vol Syndrome. I know what has happened for the last 20 years, but each team, especially when a new staff arrives is new. There are no players from the 2011 team on this one. All the turnover we have had in the last year is a good thing, whether the players were being paid and had to leave, or whether they had not bought in or were just bad apples from the get go.

College football is about talent. Also, training, conditioning, scheme, facilities, Xs and Os, cohesion between units as well as offense and defense, support staff,...etc. As these young men develop physically, it becomes more about the mental aspect. All top even decent schools in the top conferences have what it takes to be good or better(see Kentucky of late, Miss State with Mullen, Boise State even...UCF. Then there is talent. We do absolutely have the talent to be as good as any of the aforementioned in their best years.

This thread is not about me so I don't want to discuss more about me than generalities. I don't want to pull out my junk and compare it to everyone else's insofar as what sport I played at what level, where, when, what my 40 was, etc. Having said that, I did play a sport very seriously, about 11 months a year from 8th grade to Senior year. My coach was a disciplinarian and I had lost my father at 5 to a car accident. I wanted and needed a father figure even though I didn't know it at the time. I wasn't the most imposing specimen though I was a good athlete. I tried as hard as anyone though, and I was relentless. I wanted approval more than anything and more than anyone. I did not need to be pushed to work, at all, but that coach would ride me and ride me and ride me, even though I was generally one of the best two or three players every year until senior season, when I finally overcame a couple of other guys. I was finally the best. He never let up and leading the team in all major categories a third of the way through my senior season, I quit. I have regretted it from time to time over the years. But again, this is not about me.

These young men as they grow into men need all sorts of discipline. They need leadership. They also need love and acceptance as well as being pushed. If you dissect all of our coaches over the last 30 years, Fulmer in his early years was the only one who came close to being a decent father figure, someone who could inspire, someone who could get more out of someone than the next guy. Even if every player does not need a father figure, they do need to see a professional who knows how to be a man and handle his business, without excuses, someone who accepts responsibility for his actions and realizes that hard consistent work is the only way to success.

Not many things are given to most of us in this life. Pruitt, working for his Dad and Saban had a sense of entitlement, as did Dooley, and Lane as well. Butch was Butch riding on Kelly's coattails. Heupel from South Dakota started at Weber State, tore an ACL, transferred to a JUCO, then walked on at OU, then won the Heisman. Our fathers' lives do impact them and therefore us as children, so it would make sense that the coach's experiences would shape how he teaches and what he teaches. Heupel is the man for the job and he will get everything out of these young men. Argue as much as you want, as I will be waiting for your response at the end of the season. When he turns it around, don't be surprised.

this post was as long as the last 13 years of Tennessee football has been.. :)
 
#70
#70
LOL... I have no doubt that you have no "need" to recognize that you either contradicted yourself or else stated it in a way that did not convey what you meant. You would have come off better if you'd simply said, "that's not what I meant, let me rephrase it"... but apparently pride won't let you own such a small error.

No pride is involved here. But you certainly like beating unimportant things to death. So, while I have no need to humor you, you are definitely humoring me.
 
#72
#72
The University of Tennessee first football game of the 2021 season is just two weeks away. I bought my first season tickets in 1967 when Doug Dickey was our head coach and he kept us ranked in the top ten. He left for his Alma Mater at Florida and his young assistant, Bill Battle became our coach. The worry then was he would leave for his Alma Mater at Alabama when the Bear retired. However, moving vans showed up at his home and he was fired. Johnny Majors came marching home and things were looking great, until there appeared to be a coaching coup and Philip Fulmer took over. Soon after winning a national championship, he also was fired and enjoyed his 6 million dollar buyout and eventually showed he was not cut out to be an athletic director.

How many people remember Coach Derek Dooley and being worried he would leave for his Dad’s old school of Georgia. Lane Kiffin stayed less than a year, but left for his dream job at Southern California. Then there was Butch Jones talk of him leaving for Michigan once he had Tennessee back on top. More recently, there were people scared of Coach Pruitt leaving after Sabin retired.

Today, we have a completely new administration from our past. We have a university president who came in as a successful businessman as president without a PhD and now an athletic director with a PhD. So far, I have not heard of any rumors of anyone leaving for a dream job somewhere else. Perhaps if everything works out, our university president without a doctorate could be a candidate for The Whitehouse and our athletic director with a doctorate, could eventually become our university president.

Before anyone tells me, I do realize I have a lot of time on my hands in retirement.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Voltopia
#74
#74
No pride is involved here. But you certainly like beating unimportant things to death. So, while I have no need to humor you, you are definitely humoring me.
No pride... but you still cannot bring yourself to admit that you either contradicted yourself or else that you misspoke. I didn't make it important. You did.

Humorous? Pretty much. You contradicted yourself and no claim to have no pride involved... but can't acknowledge what is pretty obvious about that post.
 
#75
#75
this post was as long as the last 13 years of Tennessee football has been.. :)

Heh ... yeah ... I ... I'm going to regretfully go ahead and disagree with you there. While your joke was very funny, I think we can all agree that you could hide this post in the middle of your average 2010 Derek Dooley presser and no one would be the wiser. Haven't found a thing on Earth I can hide the last 20 years of Tennessee football in.
 

VN Store



Back
Top