Fair is Fair

#51
#51
cncchris33 said:
No, the defense is not good enough to win. Not even close. It is accurate to say the offense is bad. It is inaccurate to say the defense is good enough to win. Just like averaging less than 20 points is prohibitive to winning games in the SEC, so is giving up an average of 30 points.
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2020 is just different for defenses. Maybe it stays this way but our D is plenty good enough for us to be a 5-5 type team in this crazy type year for high scoring games. We held florida to their season low today.
 
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#52
#52
BruinVol said:
2020 is just different for defenses. Maybe it stays this way but our D is plenty good enough for us to be a 5-5 type team. We held florida to their season low today.
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Ok, fine, but it would be good enough to be 5-5 with wins over South Carolina, Missouri, Arkansas, Kentucky, and Vanderbilt. If that is where you feel our defense should be under a defensive-minded head coach thru year 3, then we have different goals for our program. To me, that isn't acceptable in year 3 with no significant injuries or opt-outs from our team.
 
#53
#53
cncchris33 said:
Ok, fine, but it would be good enough to be 5-5 with wins over South Carolina, Missouri, Arkansas, Kentucky, and Vanderbilt. If that is where you feel our defense should be under a defensive-minded head coach thru year 3, then we have different goals for our program. To me, that isn't acceptable in year 3 with no significant injuries or opt-outs from our team.
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You aren’t going to want to hear this but heck yea I’d be fine with 5-5 this year.


Hear me out.


A .500 record in the SEC means 7-5 or 8-4 in a regular year. This program has only won 8 regular season games twice since fulmer was fired. So yea .500 in the SEC in plenty good with me for now


It’s time we realize that playing bama, Georgia and florida every year pretty much places us at a 5-3 SEC ceiling so yes .500 in the SEC is where we have to learn to walk consistently before we can run
 
#54
#54
BruinVol said:
You aren’t going to want to hear this but heck yea I’d be fine with 5-5 this year.


Hear me out.


A .500 record in the SEC means 7-5 or 8-4 in a regular year. This program has only won 8 regular season games twice since fulmer was fired. So yea .500 in the SEC in plenty good with me for now


It’s time we realize that playing bama, Georgia and florida every year pretty much places us at a 5-3 SEC ceiling so yes .500 in the SEC is where we have to learn to walk consistently before we can run
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Going 0 for Bama/UF/UGA consistently and being uncompetitive in all of them in year 3 of any tenure is never going to unacceptable to me. Nothing you can say will change my mind on that matter.

We are arguing different points.
 
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#55
#55
cncchris33 said:
Going 0 for Bama/UF/UGA consistently and being uncompetitive in all of them in year 3 of any tenure is never going to unacceptable to me. Nothing you can say will change my mind on that matter.

We are arguing different points.
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I think the window to catch Florida and Georgia is over for awhile regardless of who the coach is

We need smart to slide dramatically which is possible and we desperately need Mullen to go to the nlf



If Mullen stays at florida I think he wins multiple National titles in the next decade
 
#57
#57
cncchris33 said:
The biggest issue with this team is the defense. The defense is awful, especially the pass defense. We have to work so hard, offensively, to get guys open. Florida, like every other team we've played, has multiple guys running wide open. No one within 5 yards of receivers. That is the most concerning thing for me if I am evaluating Pruitt and Ansley. That is supposed to be their specialty and in year 3, it's our biggest weakness. That is why I think it is safe to assume Pruitt isn't going to get things fixed.

Us having an absolute turd at QB in previous games was just the icing on top. Making a change there wasn't going to fix our biggest problem, but it at least gives us an option to try and mitigate it, both in the present and the future, because we know Guarantano isn't the answer.
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Im sorry dude but our biggest problem is scoring TD's
cncchris33 said:
The biggest issue with this team is the defense. The defense is awful, especially the pass defense. We have to work so hard, offensively, to get guys open. Florida, like every other team we've played, has multiple guys running wide open. No one within 5 yards of receivers. That is the most concerning thing for me if I am evaluating Pruitt and Ansley. That is supposed to be their specialty and in year 3, it's our biggest weakness. That is why I think it is safe to assume Pruitt isn't going to get things fixed.

Us having an absolute turd at QB in previous games was just the icing on top. Making a change there wasn't going to fix our biggest problem, but it at least gives us an option to try and mitigate it, both in the present and the future, because we know Guarantano isn't the answer.
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Im sorry dude i have to disagree. Blaming the defense is kinda tough when the offense is so non-existent. The biggest problem with the team is scoring TD's. Believe it or not that was Fla lowest scoring output since game 1 vs Miami. We werent going to shut down Trask especially when u get only 1 score in the 1st 9 possessions. The defense actually gave us a chance to get back in the game with 3 straight stops with the score 24-7. Heck if we just go get 3 on each of those possessions its 16-24. Im not blaming the Qb I blame the playcalling. We didnt play to win on offense. Its not like Fla has its typical Fla defense this year. Granted the TD before halftime & the TD right after cant happen if u want to beat Fla, but there were 7 straight non scoring drives combined after their TD to start the 3rd. We had plenty of chances to get back into the game. The sooner we fix our offense the better the team will be.
 
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#58
#58
Anyone taking up for this defense is nuts. Sure, what the heck are they doing at QB? What’s our identity on offense? Reasonable questions.

No pressure. Can’t get lined up and we line up correctly we give up what we line up to take away, and just tackle, just tackle...we didn’t play well enough on defense today, might as well have been ROA.
 
#59
#59
901 Orange said:
Im sorry dude but our biggest problem is scoring TD's

Im sorry dude i have to disagree. Blaming the defense is kinda tough when the offense is so non-existent. The biggest problem with the team is scoring TD's. Believe it or not that was Fla lowest scoring output since game 1 vs Miami. We werent going to shut down Trask especially when u get only 1 score in the 1st 9 possessions. The defense actually gave us a chance to get back in the game with 3 straight stops with the score 24-7. Heck if we just go get 3 on each of those possessions its 16-24. Im not blaming the Qb I blame the playcalling. We didnt play to win on offense. Its not like Fla has its typical Fla defense this year. Granted the TD before halftime & the TD right after cant happen if u want to beat Fla, but there were 7 straight non scoring drives combined after their TD to start the 3rd. We had plenty of chances to get back into the game. The sooner we fix our offense the better the team will be.
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You aren't wrong about the offense. It sucks. No one would argue otherwise. The point keeps getting missed, though. Jeremy Pruitt and Derrick Ansley are allegedly two of the brightest defensive minds in college football and their specialty is the secondary. My contention is that the defense is the biggest problem because it should be the strength of this team based on their ability to scheme, teach, identify talent, and develop. It isn't a strength, and in fact, it is a liability at the end of year 3. The defense should be bailing out the offense more consistently and not giving up an average of 30 ppg, by now, but they aren't.

So, yes, the offense is a problem, but our lack of QB play/talent/development is much less surprising for a defensive-minded head coach than our defense that consistently leaves receiver ers wide-open without a defender with 5 and 10 yards, sometimes.
 
#60
#60
BruinVol said:
For all those that have blamed games on the QB for all these games here you go:





This game was lost when HB didn’t complete that wide open easy pass that would have at worse put us into scoring range and more importantly kept Florida off the field for the rest of the first half.


Score would have been at worst 10-10 or 14-10 us at half.



Damn you HB for losing this game
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One bad pass doesn’t equal a career of bad QB play
 
#61
#61
For people screaming about our poor defense, there's no doubt it can be improved, however, they are a scoring juggernaut and holding them to 30 some odd points demonstrates the defense played well. Also they left Trask in to the bitter end to tryand pad their points and our guys played well to the final whistle. Then take a note of Trask's uniform at games end, it was dirty AND he was sacked multiple times. You haven't seen that occur much at all this season. Yes, we gave up a few plays, but for the defense it could have been a LOT WORSE. I'm no longer on the CJP bandwagon he has to go, but the defense played well against a nationally recognized powerful offense.
 
#62
#62
cncchris33 said:
You aren't wrong about the offense. It sucks. No one would argue otherwise. The point keeps getting missed, though. Jeremy Pruitt and Derrick Ansley are allegedly two of the brightest defensive minds in college football and their specialty is the secondary. My contention is that the defense is the biggest problem because it should be the strength of this team based on their ability to scheme, teach, identify talent, and develop. It isn't a strength, and in fact, it is a liability at the end of year 3. The defense should be bailing out the offense more consistently and not giving up an average of 30 ppg, by now, but they aren't.

So, yes, the offense is a problem, but our lack of QB play/talent/development is much less surprising for a defensive-minded head coach than our defense that consistently leaves receiver ers wide-open without a defender with 5 and 10 yards, sometimes.
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The problem I have with that take is when u have a historically bad offense, how on earth is the defense supposed to save the day?? We are at the bottom of every single offensive category. The defense is actually middle of the pack and definitely a defense u can win with.The offense is so bad that it actually doubles the pressure put on the defense. They held the nations top TD passer to 24 points through 3 quaters, including 3 straight stops with the score at 24-7. They gave the offense 3 straight shots to get us back into the game. We ran 11 plays in that time frame, got two 1st downs, & 0 points. In the game of football all 3 phases are supposed to compliment each other. The defense would look drastically better if we had even an avg offense. Your defense can look way worse then it is if your offense does absolutely nothing. Uga had what most called the best defense in the country coming into the season. Fla beat them like a drum bc their offense was a none factor. In today's game u can have all the defensive guru's u want but u better score some points. This era of football favors offenses. Look at the really good teams this year. They all have high powered offenses. Bama doesnt even play defense the same way they used to, its all about putting points on the board now. If u cant consistently score u have no chance in today's game it doesnt matter how good your defense is or isnt. In our 6 losses only 2 offenses actually got to 30 + points without our help (bama & fla). In the other 4 losses our defense actually held their offenses under 30 points. The problem is our 10 turnovers with the opponents returning half of those 10 for scores (3 pick 6's, & 2 scoop and scores). Basically our offense has inflated the opponents stats.
 
#64
#64
BruinVol said:
For all those that have blamed games on the QB for all these games here you go:





This game was lost when HB didn’t complete that wide open easy pass that would have at worse put us into scoring range and more importantly kept Florida off the field for the rest of the first half.


Score would have been at worst 10-10 or 14-10 us at half.



Damn you HB for losing this game
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Maybe, just maybe, HB could have benefitted from getting many of JG's reps in practice and games instead of waiting until the 8th game against the #6 Gators. Looks pretty obvious that Shrout could have as well.
 
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#65
#65
901 Orange said:
The problem I have with that take is when u have a historically bad offense, how on earth is the defense supposed to save the day?? We are at the bottom of every single offensive category. The defense is actually middle of the pack and definitely a defense u can win with.The offense is so bad that it actually doubles the pressure put on the defense. They held the nations top TD passer to 24 points through 3 quaters, including 3 straight stops with the score at 24-7. They gave the offense 3 straight shots to get us back into the game. We ran 11 plays in that time frame, got two 1st downs, & 0 points. In the game of football all 3 phases are supposed to compliment each other. The defense would look drastically better if we had even an avg offense. Your defense can look way worse then it is if your offense does absolutely nothing. Uga had what most called the best defense in the country coming into the season. Fla beat them like a drum bc their offense was a none factor. In today's game u can have all the defensive guru's u want but u better score some points. This era of football favors offenses. Look at the really good teams this year. They all have high powered offenses. Bama doesnt even play defense the same way they used to, its all about putting points on the board now. If u cant consistently score u have no chance in today's game it doesnt matter how good your defense is or isnt. In our 6 losses only 2 offenses actually got to 30 + points without our help (bama & fla). In the other 4 losses our defense actually held their offenses under 30 points. The problem is our 10 turnovers with the opponents returning half of those 10 for scores (3 pick 6's, & 2 scoop and scores). Basically our offense has inflated the opponents stats.
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That is certainly a lot of words to say we agree; the offense sucks. I'm not arguing otherwise. I'm not sure how clearer I can make that.

It still isn't an excuse for Florida to have receivers running wide-open with no defender in sight from 1st quarter to 4th. Your argument seems fixated on the Florida game, but it has been the same in every game. Florida failed to capitalize an several opportunities to make the outcome much worse. Those were mental errors by the Gators more than they were incredible individual efforts by our defense.

The bottom line is this; two ideas are mutually inclusive. The offense can suck and the defense can still also suck. Both are accurate to say. My contention is simply that the defense is a bigger problem because it is the area of expertise of our head coach. It is the thing that we should have the most faith in being fixed after 3 seasons. But it isn't fixed. It isn't even close to fixed. It is still a liability. Is it overshadowed by a historically bad offense? Perhaps. Is it good enough to win with if we had LSU's 2019 offense? Probably so, but the offense would still be making a poor defense, it is still awful for a team and a coach that should be able to have built it into a strength in three years. He and his staff have failed to do that, and that is why I think it is our biggest problem, because it is a direct reflection of who our coach is and his failure to fix the area in which he is supposed to be the subject matter expert.
 
#66
#66
Man that 14 pt swing that occurred at the end of the first half sure would have changed things
 
#67
#67
lifeVol said:
Thanks JG'S mom
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and thank you for nothing of any value to the conversation. You know damn well that the poster is not JGs mom and you have nothing more intelligent to add. I don't agree with the poster... but still. Does your mama know you're playing on the computer?
 
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#68
#68
cncchris33 said:
That is certainly a lot of words to say we agree; the offense sucks. I'm not arguing otherwise. I'm not sure how clearer I can make that.

It still isn't an excuse for Florida to have receivers running wide-open with no defender in sight from 1st quarter to 4th. Your argument seems fixated on the Florida game, but it has been the same in every game. Florida failed to capitalize an several opportunities to make the outcome much worse. Those were mental errors by the Gators more than they were incredible individual efforts by our defense.

The bottom line is this; two ideas are mutually inclusive. The offense can suck and the defense can still also suck. Both are accurate to say. My contention is simply that the defense is a bigger problem because it is the area of expertise of our head coach. It is the thing that we should have the most faith in being fixed after 3 seasons. But it isn't fixed. It isn't even close to fixed. It is still a liability. Is it overshadowed by a historically bad offense? Perhaps. Is it good enough to win with if we had LSU's 2019 offense? Probably so, but the offense would still be making a poor defense, it is still awful for a team and a coach that should be able to have built it into a strength in three years. He and his staff have failed to do that, and that is why I think it is our biggest problem, because it is a direct reflection of who our coach is and his failure to fix the area in which he is supposed to be the subject matter expert.
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Im not just talking about the Fla game im talking about all the games. We have a middle of the road defense. It aint horrible and it aint great its just an average defense. The offense is bottom of the entire country. U keep saying guys were open all over the field & we couldnt stop them yet they only had 24 points going into the 4th quater. U talking like they dropped 50. It was fla's 2nd lowest scoring output on the season.Thats a winnable game on any level of football. We have played 8 games and only 2 teams managed to get more then 30 points without the help of our offense. Thats bama & fla who both have high powered offenses. They both also have a heisman canidate at Qb. Our defense held everyone else to less then 30. Our offense is responsible for 5 defensive TD's & 5 more turnovers putting the opponent in scoring position. It aint the defense my friend. Our offense is just that bad.
 
#69
#69
Cormock Mac said:
and thank you for nothing of any value to the conversation. You know damn well that the poster is not JGs mom and you have nothing more intelligent to add. I don't agree with the poster... but still. Does your mama know you're playing on the computer?
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Actually, I don't know it wasn't JG'S mom, and my mon passed 10 yrs ago so yea, she prob does know I'm playing on the conputer. Is this the best thing on the board you've seen to complain about ?
 
#70
#70
You know damn well that the poster is not JGs mom

One of the goofiest lines I've ever read on VN. Never change, CM. Never change
 
#71
#71
Bailey looked pretty good for his first freshman start, way better than our 5th year senior who's had 32 starts.
 
#74
#74
FiremedicVOL127 said:
Not saying it is but you said we may have lost by 17 instead of 31. I was just pointing out we didn't loose by 31.
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No, we didn’t. The point wasn’t really about the score, just that it should have happened sooner but it still wouldn’t have been enough. I was wrong about the score.
 
#75
#75
lifeVol said:
Actually, I don't know it wasn't JG'S mom, and my mon passed 10 yrs ago so yea, she prob does know I'm playing on the conputer. Is this the best thing on the board you've seen to complain about ?
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If you can't figure out that the post was not JG's mom, then Bless your heart.
 
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