Facts: We are Still Young and Inexperienced

#76
#76
emzeeee said:
It's a fact.

You don't get to dismiss every single fact about the team and program since Butch took over just because you don't like it.
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So it's ok for you to dismiss all the counter points to your very tired argument? Funny how that works. You are pretty damn good at picking and choosing the facts that help spin your narrative. I will give you that. I think most have figured that out by now though.
 
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#77
#77
FLSTF-VOL said:
So it's ok for you to dismiss all the counter points to your very tired argument? Funny how that works. You are pretty damn good at picking and choosing the facts that help spin your narrative. I will give you that. I think most have figured that out by now though.
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Like what? I've said our attrition is higher than anyone else's in the country (fact). I've said CBJ has lost more games than Hugh Freeze in the first 27 (fact). I've said he needs to win the important matchups this year. I said I didn't like the play calling against OU, but I also blamed the players. I've said I expect 8-4 this year. I'm sorry my facts are tiring you out all the way into this super long 2 year and 2 week career of Butch Jones.

Not sure what argument I've been making except "give him the full three years before you start critiquing him like he's been here 3 years"
 
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#78
#78
IluvdoubleD's said:
--Jones says that 64 percent of his roster has played one year of college football or less.
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He also said his players are "17 and 18 year olds".....even though we literally don't have one player on the team who is 17 years old.....

@Vol_Football: JONES: I think we have to sit back when you're growing a football program, these are still 17-18 year old kids.


He also said that 5 hours worth of analytic thought and discussion went into his decision to kick the early field goal vs OU during his Monday teleconference.....only to change his comments and say that it was 2 hours of analytic thought and discussion during an interview with 104.5 in Nashville on Wednesday when asked the same question about the decision.

I like Butch and really want to see him succeed here. But he needs to re-evaluate his public comments and the things about the team (such as youth) he chooses to continually stress imo.
 
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#79
#79
Rifleman said:
Phil Steele

The stats are correct.

Even the yards returning are young, but we expect them to play like seasoned vets because they really have done better than their years would suggest. Dobbs abd Hurd are elite talents, but they have to go through learning curves like the rest.
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Hmm, Steele is closer to right than I thought. We actually return 56.93% of our offensive ydg production, which makes Steele's chart about 2.5% off. The correct number would only move us up about 6 spots, to the #80 position. I really thought he would be further off than that.

I stand corrected.


p.s. His methodology includes no measurement for returning vs lost WRs and TEs...is the principle way my impression and his calculations differed.
 
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#80
#80
Rifleman said:
Phil Steele

The stats are correct.

Even the yards returning are young, but we expect them to play like seasoned vets because they really have done better than their years would suggest. Dobbs abd Hurd are elite talents, but they have to go through learning curves like the rest.
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Very misleading stat.

For example, Oklahoma was ranked #5, yet their starting QB Baker Mayfield didn't throw a pass for OU last year. However, because Trevor Knight returns, even though he is now a backup and hasn't yet played and likely will not play a meaningful snap barring injury this year, it's counted as them returning virtually 100% of their passing yards.

Meanwhile, Tennessee only gets credited for returning 42% of its passing yardage from last year, even though Josh Dobbs was 4-1 as a starter last year and threw for 1200+ and 9 TDs.

Aside from that very skewed statistic, we return 79% of our rushing yards, 92% of our receiving yards and 65% of our return yards.

Btw, we're tied with Florida at #86 and well ahead of both Georgia (95th) and Bama (126th).....not that it means much of anything.
 
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#81
#81
KBVol said:
Very misleading stat.

...

Aside from that very skewed statistic, we return 79% of our rushing yards, 92% of our receiving yards and 65% of our return yards.
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Yeah, him not counting receiving yards in the returning production is what really threw me off. Don't know why he would do that.

You're right about the misleading nature of the stat when one keeps a QB from the year before but no longer starts him, instead replacing him with a new QB who had zero previous production, too. That really skews situations like OK's.
 
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#83
#83
CountVolcula said:
We've been young and inexperienced since 2007
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When you go through 4 coaches and scrub recruits for years, that happens.

Again, I'm not sure (outside of it being the mantra of all the negative nancy boys of the board) why it is so difficult to look at the numbers and see the truth - we are playing young players.

Just because we had a young team last year for example, doesn't mean the starting players this year can't be younger. When you have attrition and a coach who can actually recruit talent, it is common to have an older player replaced by someone younger and better. It's why we have so many starters on both sides of the ball. Outside injuries, they are starting because they are better.
 
#85
#85
We've got some experienced talent on offense--and yet our passing game against ou was terrible and we essentially got out-coached by the sooners. We've got some potential playmakers/playmakers in Pearson, Malone, Howard, Kamara, Hurd and Dobbs. That's a pretty nice collection of skill talent--and I've left out the TE and North. It is time to go out and make some plays, and I'm not just talking about against non-conference teams. It's time to start lighting it up a little, no?
 
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#86
#86
armchair said:
We've got some experienced talent on offense--and yet our passing game against ou was terrible and we essentially got out-coached by the sooners. We've got some potential playmakers/playmakers in Pearson, Malone, Howard, Kamara, Hurd and Dobbs. That's a pretty nice collection of skill talent--and I've left out the TE and North. It is time to go out and make some plays, and I'm not just talking about against non-conference teams. It's time to start lighting it up a little, no?
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If we could get our playmaker surplus years to line up with our O-Line not being a trash heap, it'd be awesome. Mahoney isn't winning himself any favorable opinions at the moment.
 
#87
#87
emzeeee said:
If we could get our playmaker surplus years to line up with our O-Line not being a trash heap, it'd be awesome. Mahoney isn't winning himself any favorable opinions at the moment.
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Butch would do good to stop hanging onto his buddies and get people in here that can coach while he does what he does best, recruit and represent the team
 
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#90
#90
Those numbers may be facts

Another fact is we saw this young team up 17-0 and that changed expectations in this game. OK made adjustments and TN didnt. TN decided not calls plays to counter the blitz
 
#91
#91
jbr82 said:
Those numbers may be facts

Another fact is we saw this young team up 17-0 and that changed expectations in this game. OK made adjustments and TN didnt. TN decided not calls plays to counter the blitz
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TN got outplayed and outcoached in the fourth quarter. Period. Move on.
 
#92
#92
Rifleman said:
I don't want to hear this any more than the rest of you, but anger and frustation aside . . .

These are the facts:

1) OL - Tennessee was 64th in career OL starts, before the Jackson injury. With Jackson gone we are tied for 100th in FBS. That is if you count Crowder's starts and not those of Thomas who is the guy playing most snaps at center.

2) We were 66th in lettermen returning before the key injuries at OL and DL.

3) We are 86th in the percentage of offensive yards gained returning.

4) We were 45th in the percentage of tackles returning before the key DL injuries and suspensions - and counting McNeil as active (we don't know how that will shake out). This would have qualified as a strength 2 months ago.

5) Our 2-deep class experience rank was 87th - again this was before key hits to our depth.

Those are the facts. Depth is building but not restocked by any stretch of the imagination. Depth and experience was a key factor against Oklahoma and perhaps the critical factor.

This doesn't mean the coaches are absolved of their part in our losses, nor does it make this situation any easier to swallow.

Those are just the facts.
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1) Year three of the Jones era (Why?)
2) Where did they go? We have to be better since none were drafted
3) Who left? Worley? I thought we upgraded?
4) MLB leaves/is dismissed the program and we lost a senior that caught on as a free agent. Replaced with four and five star talent (except Jumper but our coach believes he is better than the highly rated younger players)
5) Another unique way of rationalizing failure. Who left that would have made us better?

Facts -
1) we have never lost a 17 point lead in Neyland
2) Second time in two years a two score lead has been lost in the fourth quarter with a sell out crowd and checkered stands
 
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#93
#93
thebjd said:
1) Year three of the Jones era (Why?)
2) Where did they go? We have to be better since none were drafted
3) Who left? Worley? I thought we upgraded?
4) MLB leaves/is dismissed the program and we lost a senior that caught on as a free agent. Replaced with four and five star talent (except Jumper but our coach believes he is better than the highly rated younger players)
5) Another unique way of rationalizing failure. Who left that would have made us better?

Facts -
1) we have never lost a 17 point lead in Neyland
2) Second time in two years a double digit lead has been lost in the fourth quarter with a sell out crowd and checkered stands
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TIL 9 is double digits.
 
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#94
#94
emzeeee said:
Dooley coached 3 seasons (got fired at the end of the collapsed last one)
Kiffin coached 3 seasons
Zook coached 3 seasons -1 bowl game
Rich Rod coached 3 seasons

Jones has coached 2 seasons, oh and one of those was 7-6 with the first bowl win since 2008.

But now that it's week 2 and we lost a close game, just start the **** show.

Complain if he collapses like Dooley did in yr 3, until then chill out.
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Chill out yourself. You're the one spazzing out.

Like I said..... 8 wins in year 3 is NOT unreasonable.

If you read my posts with the "enthusiasm" that you have in responding... you'd know that I've said multiple times that I believed OU was the 2nd most likely loss on the schedule. I don't like the strategy that helped cost UT the game because it has cost UT games before under Jones.

In college football, you're going to have those tactical mistakes that hurt UT. Players are going to miss assignments. Coaches are going to call the wrong play, make the wrong sub, or make the wrong 4th down call. You are going to have mistakes, off games, missed assignments, poor throws, missed tackles, and all the rest. Inexperienced or underdeveloped players often suffer more. That's college football. You have to learn to live with it.

What bothers me about the line of reasoning of the OP is that it casts a sort of blanket, catch all excuse for any and everything.... and it isn't exactly true since UT has a number of experienced Sophs. Maybe more than anyone. UT's Sophs are the rough equivalent of the Jrs from other teams in terms of game experience.

AND... to the extent that it is true, the excessive attrition under Jones is a MAJOR factor regardless of what you think the reasons are.
 
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#95
#95
Rifleman said:
I would have like the play calling to have been more aggressive, absolutely.

Yet, we see multiple false starts from the OL late in the game.

We see a walk-on TE drop a touchdown pass that would have had him walking into the endzone.

We see a walk on LB abused in the passing game and getting penalties that extended drives.

We see the same stunts fool the OL again and again on key third downs.

The plays that were called would have won the day had the execution been better.
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False starts - do we not coach that in practice?
Walk on TE - Who had him in the game?
Walk-on LB - Who had him in the game?
Stunts fool the O-Line - Did we not have an OC in the booth? Can he make adjustments?
Great plays called just weren't executed - I missed some of those but do we not have practice and does the coach have discretion to call plays we can execute?
 
#96
#96
Biopsyman said:
Master plan.. Keep benching upperclassman
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I'm reading this as a sarcasm blue font comment. Ironically you, Biopsyman are one of the 8 anti-crowder posters who together posted over 1,000 messages each calling for a replacement making it look like a social media outcry to replace a seasoned veteran upperclassman.

We will need a proven veteran in the hostile swamp at Center next week. I'm very concerned that those same Oline errors we saw in late 4th Qtr drives against OU will return in tense situations and cost us the ballgame against FL.
 
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#99
#99
thebjd said:
Walk on TE - Who had him in the game?
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Branisel and Helm have left the program. Not sure what happened with Branisel. The rumor on Helm was that he didn't like the way the coaches talked to players. There's been no indication that he was a bad actor and was talented enough to win PT as a Fr.

Stunts fool the O-Line - Did we not have an OC in the booth? Can he make adjustments?
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Apparently UT doesn't have a quick game with short crossing routes or fade routes that are safe and might draw a flag on physical CB's.
 
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#100
#100
sjt18 said:
Chill out yourself. You're the one spazzing out.

Like I said..... 8 wins in year 3 is NOT unreasonable.

If you read my posts with the "enthusiasm" that you have in responding... you'd know that I've said multiple times that I believed OU was the 2nd most likely loss on the schedule. I don't like the strategy that helped cost UT the game because it has cost UT games before under Jones.

In college football, you're going to have those tactical mistakes that hurt UT. Players are going to miss assignments. Coaches are going to call the wrong play, make the wrong sub, or make the wrong 4th down call. You are going to have mistakes, off games, missed assignments, poor throws, missed tackles, and all the rest. Inexperienced or underdeveloped players often suffer more. That's college football. You have to learn to live with it.

What bothers me about the line of reasoning of the OP is that it casts a sort of blanket, catch all excuse for any and everything.... and it isn't exactly true since UT has a number of experienced Sophs. Maybe more than anyone. UT's Sophs are the rough equivalent of the Jrs from other teams in terms of game experience.

AND... to the extent that it is true, the excessive attrition under Jones is a MAJOR factor regardless of what you think the reasons are.
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As a side note, I wasn't specifically replying to you to say chill out. That was a general statement.
 
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