Explanation of Stars

I was at a party two weeks ago with Sanders who coaches at Montgomery Bell.

He said the star system is over rated and all about guys who have camped and where they camped. Said the league is built on guys who aren’t four and five stars.

Being that I have never played in D1 like he has, played in the NFL, or coached at that level...I will take his word on it.

Side note, heck of a nice guy and very laid back.

Where to begin here? So much is wrong. I guess I will cut to the chase, if your goal is to be competitive, then by all means go the route of "the star ratings are over rated" and just focus on developing good players up. It works for many programs like Mich State, TCU, Boise, Wisc etc...but text us back when ever one of those type teams actually plays for a championship. Do yourself a favor and go back to the beginning of the BCS championship era through the current era of a four team playoff. Now, tell me which of those types were playing in those games.

Fans who fight the simple hard truth of this matter by trying to talk their way around the reality of it sound like the conspiracy theorists that believe Trump speaks the truth.
 
So assuming 5% missed due to health or other issues not related to ability or performance then star ratings for 5 stars are wrong 30% of the time...but ultimately NFL futures means squat to college success. Id take a Roster full Tim Tebows and the NFL just didn't want him....

Are you mental? The post you responded to was about the percentage of players who got drafted from each ranking. Tebow wasn’t a huge NFL success but he was a 1st round pick. I would also take a team of 5* recruits who will perform well enough in college to be drafted in the first round.
 
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Stars have nothing to do with NFL projections and everything to do with College projections.

One example being Tebow. He was never projected to be a 1st round caliber NFL QB but in a college offense he was projected to excel.

There are plenty like that each year.

Great example. Tim Tebow, 5* QB recruit, DRAFTED in the 1st round
 
Are you mental? The post you responded to was about the percentage of players who got drafted from each ranking. Tebow wasn’t a huge NFL success but he was a 1st round pick. I would also take a team of 5* recruits who will perform well enough in college to be drafted in the first round.
Not mental at all, are you mentally capable? Would you also take a team filled with the 30% of 5 stars that weren’t good enough for the NFL?
 
Name the coaching staff that knows what to do with a player, and stars are subjective. How many titles does Jimbo have with all the recruiting success he had at FSU. Outside of Bama, how many titles do all the other top programs (FSU, Clemson, tOSU, OK, etc) have with the level of 4 and 5 star recruits they bring in. You can throw out Bama, and all the other programs that recruit at that level year in and year out have very few repeat titles within a given span of years.

Name all the 5* flameouts that never made an impact, or didn't get drafted. List probably be surprising. I'm not discounting star rating. they are not the sole attribute of college success and championships.

Ok I’ll bite. First off the other programs with great recruiting success don’t have a ton of titles, normally b/c Alabama, a team that recruits HIGHER RANKED PLAYERS than them, ends up winning the title.

But let’s use your list of the other top programs to see their success. Removing Alabama from the list the last 3 teams to win national championships are...Clemson, Ohio State, and Florida State. Now take those teams out and the next one is Auburn in 2010.

The last 7 champions have been teams loaded with top recruits. Problem with your theory is Auburn also had multiple top 10 recruiting classes. Going further back your next best bet for low ranked recruiting classes to win the championship is OU in 2000. Recruiting class rankings are hard to find from the time but OU was coming off 3 sub par years so that is your best bet. After that you have to go back to Washington in 1991.

So from 1991 - 2018 2 out of 31 (3 years of split champions) teams that have won a national championship haven’t had at least 2 top 10 recruiting classes in the previous 4 years.
 
Not mental at all, are you mentally capable? Would you also take a team filled with the 30% of 5 stars that weren’t good enough for the NFL?

So a team has to be made up of players. You have 3 groups to pick them from. 70% of the 1st group goes on to play in the NFL. 25% of the 2nd group goes on play in the NFL. 5% of the 3rd group goes on to play in the NFL. Which group do you want to get the most players from? Please make your pick b/c this should be pretty easy to show which one of us is mentally capable
 
Ok I’ll bite. First off the other programs with great recruiting success don’t have a ton of titles, normally b/c Alabama, a team that recruits HIGHER RANKED PLAYERS than them, ends up winning the title.

But let’s use your list of the other top programs to see their success. Removing Alabama from the list the last 3 teams to win national championships are...Clemson, Ohio State, and Florida State. Now take those teams out and the next one is Auburn in 2010.

The last 7 champions have been teams loaded with top recruits. Problem with your theory is Auburn also had multiple top 10 recruiting classes. Going further back your next best bet for low ranked recruiting classes to win the championship is OU in 2000. Recruiting class rankings are hard to find from the time but OU was coming off 3 sub par years so that is your best bet. After that you have to go back to Washington in 1991.

So from 1991 - 2018 2 out of 31 (3 years of split champions) teams that have won a national championship haven’t had at least 2 top 10 recruiting classes in the previous 4 years.


OK. Counter point. Auburn always has top recruiting classes. Last title 2010. So, even with top recruiting classes in multiple years, the top programs we can all name from the last say 10 years, and its pretty much the same 5 or 6 with a few exceptions, there's really no multiple titles outside Bama.

So, my next counter point, and I don't have time at work to do all this research so thanks/props to you if your numbers are factual, how many teams with lesser recruiting classes were even in the hunt come bowl/championship season. I would say it starts blending down.
 
So a team has to be made up of players. You have 3 groups to pick them from. 70% of the 1st group goes on to play in the NFL. 25% of the 2nd group goes on play in the NFL. 5% of the 3rd group goes on to play in the NFL. Which group do you want to get the most players from? Please make your pick b/c this should be pretty easy to show which one of us is mentally capable

I pick the individuals I see the most potential in regardless of what third parties have labeled them with in terms of stars..or what group a pseudo statistician trying, albeit unsuccessfully to sound intelligent types them into on a message board.
 
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Me personally, I look at the offer list. That is the most telling piece of a recruit. If a student has only offers from vandy and South Carolina, Stars don’t mean as much. If a student has offers from Michigan and Clemson, we got the right guy.
 
A lot of times as well, the difference in Stars is due to the marketing, self presentation, and exposure of a recruit. They join these recruiting video services, Hudl, and whatever else. It's up to you to get yourself on the national radar. We have a small high school in the plateau of middle Tennessee. We are not blessed with many prospects, but we've had a few the last few years. Illinois was looking at one, and more should have been. One never got recruited except for Peay, and he walked on at Tennessee Tech. Was more than capable of making a bigger school. They were never seen.

I’d rather take my chances with a 5* than hope for an exception to happen.
 
OK. Counter point. Auburn always has top recruiting classes. Last title 2010. So, even with top recruiting classes in multiple years, the top programs we can all name from the last say 10 years, and its pretty much the same 5 or 6 with a few exceptions, there's really no multiple titles outside Bama.

So, my next counter point, and I don't have time at work to do all this research so thanks/props to you if your numbers are factual, how many teams with lesser recruiting classes were even in the hunt come bowl/championship season. I would say it starts blending down.

Auburn has been very successful, just not when compared to Bama. They won a championship in 10, lost one in 13, went to a NY6 bowl game in 16 and 17. Auburn is 2 plays away form being 9-3 this year with a win over the Pac12 champions. Still their good recruiting classes aren’t at the level of Bama’s.

There have been some notable teams in the hunt with mediocre recruiting. Notre Dame in 2012. Oregon has made 2 title games with bad recruits. The B1G has had Michigan State make the playoffs and Wisconsin and Iowa have both lost close conference championship games to miss out on the playoffs and their recruiting is almost all 3* with a few 4* sprinkled in. The key takeaway is these teams have good coaches with upperclassmen leadership. Problem is they run into teams like Bama, OSU, and Clemson that also have good coaches, upperclassmen leadership, and top talent.
 
Auburn has been very successful, just not when compared to Bama. They won a championship in 10, lost one in 13, went to a NY6 bowl game in 16 and 17. Auburn is 2 plays away form being 9-3 this year with a win over the Pac12 champions. Still their good recruiting classes aren’t at the level of Bama’s.

There have been some notable teams in the hunt with mediocre recruiting. Notre Dame in 2012. Oregon has made 2 title games with bad recruits. The B1G has had Michigan State make the playoffs and Wisconsin and Iowa have both lost close conference championship games to miss out on the playoffs and their recruiting is almost all 3* with a few 4* sprinkled in. The key takeaway is these teams have good coaches with upperclassmen leadership. Problem is they run into teams like Bama, OSU, and Clemson that also have good coaches, upperclassmen leadership, and top talent.

Actually if you look that Notre Dame team was considered among the elite in recruiting from 2003-2014. Oregon was on the cusp of 5 star status. At that time every team in the elite recruiting group except for Georgia had played for the BCS title.

People are insane if they don't think having 5 stars matter if you want to win titles. They are what wins when you pair them with good coaching. Great coaches with 4 star talent like Michigan State and Washington occasionally compete. The only programs that waste 5 star talent are those without competent coaches for player development and game day. With competent coaching UT plays for the national title a few years ago. Dobbs, Kamera, Barnett and those guys would have been 14-0 with Saban/Meyer/Fisher/Dabo etc.
 
star
/stär/
noun

  1. 1.
    a fixed luminous point in the night sky that is a large, remote incandescent body like the sun.
    synonyms:celestial body, heavenly body, sun;
 
Some fans are star gazers and other feel stars don’t matter. Here are my thoughts are what the star rating mean

5* Good chance of immediate playing time and big contributor in their first year. Will not require as much one on one coaching

4*. Should contribute on special teams and as needed for depth. Playing significant minutes in second year

3*. Will need some time to grow, learn, and mature. Projected to contribute after 2 years and maybe start after 3 years. Will need more one on one coaching.

5* - Unless playing for Botch Jones and staff, will be left on his own to develop at his pace with voluntary Strength and Conditioning. May never pan out as a player, 50/50 in botch System.

4* - See above with odds of success at 70/30.

3* - Under Botch 3* can see the field quickly IF Mommy and Daddy want to contribute cash. Must be a sizable donation to see the field early, big donations can result in starting as early as freshman year.
 
To the stars don't matter gang - explain why Bama, Georgia, Clemson doesn't have a roster of 3 stars... If they don't matter


You are correct. However there are usually exceptions to the rule.
Boise State, when they were winning, had few highly rated players from high school
Also Nebraska used to get 3* players and have them live in the weight room and on game down, they ran over every one
Yes, you are correct, you likely can't build a championship team on a roster of 3* and walk ons
 
The whole stars thing is a crock. I was one of the country’s very few 6 stars and never even got recruited.
 
Sorry, don't have the time to read 5 pages tonight, but here's my 0.02.

Stars are simply used by most recruiting services after they rank players 1 thru whatever by position, then by overall. It's why you can see the nation's best center prospect be a 3*, he simply isn't as good as the 14th best tackle prospect. Anyways, after they rank them regardless of position, they simply go down that list to a cut off point, that varies year to year, and players above that line are 5 stars, down to the next cut line to split the 4 and 3 stars. After that, players move up and down based on so many factors it's amazing. A percentage of that ranking is affected by offers from schools, a recruit that gets offered by Alabama, Clemson and such, gets a nod up, offers from only Indiana State, a nod down. Obviously, these guys watch film, go to games, dig into stats, vitals and everything and either using a consensus between a few, or one man's opinion, they slot them into a ranking. Yes, top athletes get higher stars, we can all go watch a highschool game and see talent. So these guys can usually determine the difference between a number 1 thru 5 vs a 26 thru 30 player. What isn't taken into consideration, or is very difficult to do, is mentality, personality, etc. Basically, these are the unknowns that a coaching staff devotes a lot of time and effort to dig deeper, evaluate more closely and such. Even then, it's an educated guess, Another thing to consider, that isn't factored into rankings, is fit. Will said player fit the scheme, will the scheme change for or against him during his time. During the players career, what will all the changes that occur, affect.

The reality is, the higher ranked recruits are more likely to perform up to a consistent starter level at some point in their college career. No determination is made about freshmen play ability. Some players are ready, depending on the team they go to, others are not. There is no clear answer other than the odds of success. A 5* has a better betting line to be successful than a 4* and so on. The star system was, and still is, marketed towards the fans. Coaches will use it to their advantage in some press conference or interview, but no coach who's successful, recruits based on any recruiting services evaluation. It's tape, in person game watching, practice, camps, visits. Simply put, their eyeballs.

I enjoy the stars. I like getting more than the next guy. I also don't look at a 3 star guy who the coaches offered and took a commitment from after their own personal observations in a negative light. Any coach worth his salt is going to go for the best player he can get at the position he needs him to fill, if he can't get his number one choice, he moves down until he gets what he can. Our problem is, the coaches number one choice isn't always the same as ours. We look at a list and want the top players in every position we take. The Doomsday cult will use any failure here as proof of the impending asteroid impact they live in fear of.

The fact is, you can only evaluate a recruiting class after the 3rd and 4th year, after signing. That's where you'll see the most accurate, and pertinent ranking.
 
Stars matter because they indicate the quality of the "raw material." The second part is development of talent - as everyone on here knows. Under ALL of our coaches since Fulmer left (with the possible exception of Kiffin, who despite his character issues could definitely coach on teh offensive side of the ball), we have been not just bad but TERRIBLE. Butch Jones couldn't develop a junior high school back-up long snapper. Derek Dooley was a flaming incompetent as a HC and fully embedded a culture of losing at UT. Jones was the icing on that slimy, maggot-infested cake.

At least now it seems that we have coaches who have at least a reputation for being able to develop players as coordinators and position coaches. We haven't seen many of those in the last 10 + years. A few exceptions, but not a lot.
 
Missouri's average ranking for recruiting is #40- Average talent for Tiggers over last 5 years-but they develop players really well, usually have 1-2 players at skill positions that are as good as anybody in the Country and seem to always have a plethora of 5th year O and D linemen. WITH that #40 ranking over last 5 years they average about 8-9 wins a season. That is their ceiling based on talent.
Contrary to that Cheating Gumps and GA Ball lickers get top 1-5 classes, develop, have GREAT S/C programs and they are in the hunt at the end of the year. You CAN have a winning program with lower rated recruits and win 75% of your games, but to bust into the elite playoff status you must recruit top 7 class every year.

Tennessee AVG recruiting rank last 5 years #12- if it was all stars we would be kicking the **** out of SC, Vandy and Mizzou.

Multi-year recruiting rankings: Penn State and Miami are joining elite company
 
Where to begin here? So much is wrong. I guess I will cut to the chase, if your goal is to be competitive, then by all means go the route of "the star ratings are over rated" and just focus on developing good players up. It works for many programs like Mich State, TCU, Boise, Wisc etc...but text us back when ever one of those type teams actually plays for a championship. Do yourself a favor and go back to the beginning of the BCS championship era through the current era of a four team playoff. Now, tell me which of those types were playing in those games.

Fans who fight the simple hard truth of this matter by trying to talk their way around the reality of it sound like the conspiracy theorists that believe Trump speaks the truth.
It's even worse than this because an exceedingly small handful of teams (less than ten, maybe 6 tops) have cornered the market on these players. The vast majority of teams, certainly including TN, will never recruit well enough to crash this talent party. Even getting to see the mighty Vol Navy and having access to the world's most aggressive selection of funneling devices (Sark's on the way) won't change this equation. But all the other bowl games are really great too.
 
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