Explanation of Stars

[peaygolf]

Yeah, more 5-stars is unrealistic. What we really need are more 4-stars, honestly.

Alabama got 22 4-star recruits. We have 20 guys signed total at the moment, 7 of them being 4-stars. That is the difference.

Exactly!
That seems to be what Butch was trying to do, but couldn't coach them correctly.

 

[Defaultuser]

Some programs like nebraska/Wisconsin/Iowa/ok state come in usually out of top 20 team rankings and are historically successful. Alabama is all 4 and 5 stars and is pretty much untouchable. Its as much about player development. Like Rick Barnes and his players.

The four teams you named are obviously not in the SEC. So it doesn't apply to UT. Three slow af teams, and one that doesn't play defense. They would get crushed just like UT does.

 

[UCDog90]

Too many quality football players falls through the cracks because they have depended on hard football stats and game film to get them noticed. Any common sense coach with an eye for talent would recognize these kids. The kids get left behind because they are not politically connected with an "organization" that puts 7v7 teams together and their high school coaches do absolutely nothing to promote them. Hard to believe that some of these kids get left behind when they, at worst, have equal stats (size, speed, strength, tackles, ints, tds, etc.) with those that get rated higher. Playing at the highest level of competition, winning, and sometimes against the very players that are getting the quality offers.

 

[05_never_again]

Exactly!
That seems to be what Butch was trying to do, but couldn't coach them correctly.

That and by signing a huge volume of guys. There was definitely a quantity over quality element to his recruiting strategy.

Examples: In 2014, we were #7 overall. A&M was #5. A&M had 22 guys sign. We had 32. In 2015, we were #4 overall. Florida St was #3. FSU had 20 guys sign. We had 30. We signed 10 more guys than each of those schools in each of those years, but their classes were higher rated. And in fact in 2014 and 2015, every class that was ranked higher than ours signed fewer guys.

Butch actually was a pretty good recruiter; recruiting was certainly his best skill as a head coach...but he wasn't as good at that as some think. There's an argument to be made that he actually was a worse coach overall than Dooley, even though he had a better record.

 

[The Original Fade]

To the stars don't matter gang - explain why Bama, Georgia, Clemson doesn't have a roster of 3 stars... If they don't matter

Exactly. People who dismiss star ratings just cross their fingers and hope we have a bunch of diamonds in the rough that can be coached up. It’s weak and such a cop out. Go look at the top 5 ranked recruiting classes from the last 5 years and match with on the field results and there is only one conclusion: STARS MATTER

 

[northknoxvol]

5 STAR HEARTS

 

[rocketskates]

It’s all about development. I’m grateful for the players that we have. Look at what Barnes has done on the basketball side. Admiral was a three star recruit and Barnes has developed him into one of the top players in the country. Let’s see what Pruitt can do.

 

[bag12day]

That and by signing a huge volume of guys. There was definitely a quantity over quality element to his recruiting strategy.

Examples: In 2014, we were #7 overall. A&M was #5. A&M had 22 guys sign. We had 32. In 2015, we were #4 overall. Florida St was #3. FSU had 20 guys sign. We had 30. We signed 10 more guys than each of those schools in each of those years, but their classes were higher rated. And in fact in 2014 and 2015, every class that was ranked higher than ours signed fewer guys.

Butch actually was a pretty good recruiter; recruiting was certainly his best skill as a head coach...but he wasn't as good at that as some think. There's an argument to be made that he actually was a worse coach overall than Dooley, even though he had a better record.

Recruiting went to Jones for convincing guys to come to Knoxville for his special systems, just not the ones you needed to compete in the SEC or his staff was unable to develop them. Coaching decisions and game day certainly Dools but he cared not one bit about recruiting it would seem. I'm sure he went out and "talked to guys and their families but did not develop the relationships with HS coaches and influencers that you have to in order to get the "big guys".

 

[vettefool]

I'll still take a boatload of four and five stars and take a chance on some working out for me...

GO VOLS...RECRUIT LIKE HECK!

Well if you don’t have a quarter back who is above average in running and/or passing it’s going to be a struggle to be anything but average or below. ie Dobbs, a very good runner who won several games on his own.

 

[Rooster1]

Stars put players on coaches radar, nothing more. 5 stars get more attention from recruiters than others. there is no correlation between star ratings and future production, its just a way for athletes to garner more attention based on the product they have displayed in high school.

As an individual player rating, the star system guarantees nothing. In the aggregate, a team ranking based upon stars means just about everything if your goal is to win a national championship or even compete for one. That is not an opinion, it is fact. Check out every team that has ever played for a BCS national championship or has been a final four participant and there is one common denominator....these teams have more four and five star talent than the rest of the nation.

Go ahead and mention all the 2 and 3 star kids that turned into superstars and the 4/5 star kids that were busts, that is why these rankings mean nothing on an individual basis. Its the collective/aggregate ranking that means everything. If you have not had at least 3 top ten classes out of the past 4 seasons as a very very bare minimum, you have no chance at winning a title.

 

[Pepe]

Some fans are star gazers and other feel stars don’t matter. Here are my thoughts are what the star rating mean

5* Good chance of immediate playing time and big contributor in their first year. Will not require as much one on one coaching

4*. Should contribute on special teams and as needed for depth. Playing significant minutes in second year

3*. Will need some time to grow, learn, and mature. Projected to contribute after 2 years and maybe start after 3 years. Will need more one on one coaching.

As always there are hits and misses. Players drive and attitude are big parts regardless of coaching thus some 5* bust and 3* end up all conference. All have talent but some bodies / minds mature faster. Coaching is huge as it sets the mental tone for the players. This is why continuity with a good coach (not a soft coach) allows teams like TCU, Miss St, Mich St, Wisc, etc. have successful teams. Maybe not NCs but very competitive.
Build a team in a year or 2 you need plenty of 4 or 5* guys. Building a system that works, you can use 3, 4, and 5* guys and give it a few years. Dooley and Jones in my opinion were too lax in players being deeply committed to the things that they needed to be doing to make themselves the best they could be. Pruitt seems to have it but can he get the players to buy into it?????

There must be ten thousand threads on this issue.

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

Stars put players on coaches radar, nothing more. 5 stars get more attention from recruiters than others. there is no correlation between star ratings and future production, its just a way for athletes to garner more attention based on the product they have displayed in high school.

Some kids never progress....they hit their ceiling in HS....kind of like a lot of posters on here.

 

[Rooster1]

There must be ten thousand threads on this issue.

10,001 now.

 

[05_never_again]

Recruiting went to Jones for convincing guys to come to Knoxville for his special systems, just not the ones you needed to compete in the SEC or his staff was unable to develop them. Coaching decisions and game day certainly Dools but he cared not one bit about recruiting it would seem. I'm sure he went out and "talked to guys and their families but did not develop the relationships with HS coaches and influencers that you have to in order to get the "big guys".

The thing about Dooley is that when you look at his teams on paper, I wouldn't say they underachieved overall. He had some weapons at the skill positions on offense and those guys could score points, but they were limited by an offensive line that wasn't physical and couldn't run block. His defenses, however, were really short on talent and he didn't really do anything to increase the talent level. Dooley's 2012 team in particular could have won 9 games with just an adequate defense.

When you look at Butch's teams on paper, it is obvious to anyone with even a cursory interest that they badly underachieved. On a scale of 1 to 10, if Dooley had a team that was a 5 on paper, he got 4 out of it. If Butch had 8 or 9, he got 6.

If Butch had Dooley's teams, some of those years he might have won only 3 or 4 games. If Dooley had Butch's teams, dare I say we might have actually won the East in 2015 or 2016. What a coach achieves relative to what he has is a good barometer of how good a coach it, at least tactically.

 

[bag12day]

The thing about Dooley is that when you look at his teams on paper, I wouldn't say they underachieved overall. He had some weapons at the skill positions on offense and those guys could score points, but they were limited by an offensive line that wasn't physical and couldn't run block. His defenses, however, were really short on talent and he didn't really do anything to increase the talent level. Dooley's 2012 team in particular could have won 9 games with just an adequate defense.

When you look at Butch's teams on paper, it is obvious to anyone with even a cursory interest that they badly underachieved. On a scale of 1 to 10, if Dooley had a team that was a 5 on paper, he got 4 out of it. If Butch had 8 or 9, he got 6.

If Butch had Dooley's teams, some of those years he might have won only 3 or 4 games. If Dooley had Butch's teams, dare I say we might have actually won the East in 2015 or 2016. What a coach achieves relative to what he has is a good barometer of how good a coach it, at least tactically.

Well said now if Pruitt can recruit better than Lyle and coach better than Dools we will be back to greatness!

 

[FïreBall]

One thing to always consider.. Some high school programs develop kids and help get them noticed better than some high schools. There are many 3 star kids out there that are very talented but haven't been properly coached and developed, and aren't able to do the camp circuit, that is why it's good for these kids to camp for a college coach if able, especially a coach that can properly evaluate a kid. It would be nice to grab all the kids that are highly ranked and have been well developed in high school.. But that is going to take time unfortunately.. The major school that gets these kids have continuity.. We keep having to hit the reset button.

 

[The Original Fade]

Stars put players on coaches radar, nothing more. 5 stars get more attention from recruiters than others. there is no correlation between star ratings and future production, its just a way for athletes to garner more attention based on the product they have displayed in high school.

Complete and total BS

 

[Volfan2012]

Of the 93 players that are currently signed by Tennessee 26 were four stars or better. That really isn't enough in the SEC. Need about half to be four stars.

 

[Lurkerin]

Players are first grouped qualitatively with a star rating, then given a numerical rating based on their future potential, and finally ranked according to these numerical ratings.
110 - 101 = Franchise Player. One of the best players to come along in years, if not decades. Odds of having a player in this category every year is slim. This prospect has “can’t miss” talent.
100 - 98 = Five-star prospect. One of the top 30 players in the nation. This player has excellent pro-potential and should emerge as one of the best in the country before the end of his career. There will be 32 prospects ranked in this range in every football class to mirror the first round of the NFL Draft.
97 - 90 = Four-star prospect. One of the top 300 players in the nation. This prospect will be an impact-player for his college team. He is an All-American candidate who is projected to play professionally.
89 - 80 = Three-star prospect. One of the top 10% players in the nation. This player will develop into a reliable starter for his college team and is among the best players in his region of the country. Many three-stars have significant pro potential.
79 - below = Two-star prospect. This player makes up the bulk of Division I rosters. He may have little pro-potential, but is likely to become a role player for his respective school.

 

[BootheelVol]

Dillon Bates was a 4 Star, Cam Sutton was a 3 star....

 

[VolArmy74]

To the stars don't matter crowd. From the 2013 class, 65 percent of the 5 stars on 247 were drafted in 2017, 23 percent of the 4 stars were drafted and 5 percent of the 3 star players were drafted. 5 stars do miss but the odds of them making it are much higher than those lower rated than them.

 

[MWAVolfan]

If 5 stars dont matter then Nick Saban must be a moron cause that dood has a TON of them.
Sombody better slip him a note before Alabama starts to suck.

 

[NEO]

Some fans are star gazers and other feel stars don’t matter. Here are my thoughts are what the star rating mean

5* Good chance of immediate playing time and big contributor in their first year. Will not require as much one on one coaching

4*. Should contribute on special teams and as needed for depth. Playing significant minutes in second year

3*. Will need some time to grow, learn, and mature. Projected to contribute after 2 years and maybe start after 3 years. Will need more one on one coaching.

As always there are hits and misses. Players drive and attitude are big parts regardless of coaching thus some 5* bust and 3* end up all conference. All have talent but some bodies / minds mature faster. Coaching is huge as it sets the mental tone for the players. This is why continuity with a good coach (not a soft coach) allows teams like TCU, Miss St, Mich St, Wisc, etc. have successful teams. Maybe not NCs but very competitive.
Build a team in a year or 2 you need plenty of 4 or 5* guys. Building a system that works, you can use 3, 4, and 5* guys and give it a few years. Dooley and Jones in my opinion were too lax in players being deeply committed to the things that they needed to be doing to make themselves the best they could be. Pruitt seems to have it but can he get the players to buy into it?????

I was at a party two weeks ago with Sanders who coaches at Montgomery Bell.

He said the star system is over rated and all about guys who have camped and where they camped. Said the league is built on guys who aren’t four and five stars.

Being that I have never played in D1 like he has, played in the NFL, or coached at that level...I will take his word on it.

Side note, heck of a nice guy and very laid back.

 

[1TheCoach1]

To the stars don't matter gang - explain why Bama, Georgia, Clemson doesn't have a roster of 3 stars... If they don't matter

They didn't matter too much to Boise State when they beat Oklahoma or Appy State when they went into the Big House and beat Michigan. They matter to an extent but it was a 3* recruit from Georgia that won the Thorpe Award. Heisman winners Sam Bradford 3*, Johnny Manziel 3*, Marcus Mariota 3* No. 491 in the 247 Sports Composite Rankings, Lamar Jackson 3* and Baker Mayfield wasn't even ranked in the top 1,000 recruits in the country. That is the list of not 4* or 5* players that have won the Heisman out of the last 10 winners. Half of the winners were not 4* or 5* players.

 

[VolArmy74]

They didn't matter too much to Boise State when they beat Oklahoma or Appy State when they went into the Big House and beat Michigan. They matter to an extent but it was a 3* recruit from Georgia that won the Thorpe Award. Heisman winners Sam Bradford 3*, Johnny Manziel 3*, Marcus Mariota 3* No. 491 in the 247 Sports Composite Rankings, Lamar Jackson 3* and Baker Mayfield wasn't even ranked in the top 1,000 recruits in the country. That is the list of not 4* or 5* players that have won the Heisman out of the last 10 winners. Half of the winners were not 4* or 5* players.

Upsets happen.

These are the facts. This is from a 2014 article (things haven't changed regarding recruiting vs BCS/Playoff appearances)

• FIVE-STAR: Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, LSU, Michigan, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Texas.



Note that, since 2003, the eleven teams in the "five-star" group have combined for 21 appearances in the BCS Championship game, compared to one appearance by any of the 64 teams listed below. (The lone exception in that span, Oregon, just barely missed the cut for five-star status.) The only "five-star" teams that never played for a title in the BCS era are Georgia and Michigan; among the rest, only Notre Dame failed to make a repeat trip

Georgia has now joined the 5 star title game party. Clemson's recruiting got better, and they started appearing in title games. Otherwise lots of familiar names. The ones that still top the recruiting rankings from that group are the ones that have been playing for titles since 2014.