Explain Your Logic Please

#102
#102
Volsfaninva917 said:
Its been said several times Jennings won't play QB here, has something changed?
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Yes it has. JJ has improved immensely. I questioned whether or not JJ would be able to play QB in the SEC. I don't question it now. Kid is a stud. I believe he will push QD to the brink for the starting job.
 
#106
#106
Dagreek1998 said:
K-town Vol Fan said:
Are you actually saying Mullen has had more to work with?? Seriously.
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MSU generally has a good D. Without Prescott they struggled to score last year...this year he is in beast mode...aka Cam and AU a few years back. It is a team sport but w/out the spark and ability they provide a QB teams would lose more close ones than they win.

I am disappointed in the UF loss....our O came in flat and never turned it around. Losing Hurd's production definitely had an impact....but teams do have flat games or you wouldn't see upsets by half the top 10 in one week.

not necessarily a sunshine pumper....but remain optimistic that they can win at least 4 if key players remain healthy and the intensity level stays
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#107
#107
I don't get the "Jones has started with more talent" part of the debate. If someone were to ignorantly look up recruiting rankings from before Butch, it might indicate that.

But I don't think that Hugh Freeze or Dan Mullen have started this many true freshman at any time. That is a much better measure of "starting with more talent."

And I don't think that Hugh Freeze or Dan Mullen have replaced all the starters on their OL and DL in a single season.

Also, when OP uses phrases like "cool-aid drinkers" and "Sunshine Sally", he is shifting his argument from an objective argument to a personal argument. It is less about what is being said, than how it is said.

If you cannot make your argument without disparaging detractors, then people are probably not going to listen to the premise of your argument. I happen to disagree with OP's argument. And I especially disagree with OP's disparaging tone.
 
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#108
#108
landscapingvol said:
You literally just made all of that up and said absolutely nothing, CBJ had no choice but to play youth and still doesn't. You don't seem to grasp that both teams have more talent than UT.
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If I made it up then you should be able to very easily point to facts that refute it.... but you probably know that you can't.

In the 5 years prior to Mullen's arrival at MSU they had one winning season while posting an overall record of 21-38. That... is an irrefutable FACT. He posted a 5-7 record in year one and no losing records since. Overall he's 36-28 and now has his team ranked in the top 10.

These teams may well have more talent than UT NOW... but that's not the comparison. The comparison is how they did in the first two years AFTER these coaches took over difficult situations compared to what Jones is doing.

Mullen went 9-4 in year two. He did not have an extremely talented team.

Freeze has made and won two bowl games to start his tenure at Ole Miss. We was 8-5 last year with a win over LSU. In the two years before he took over, the Rebels won 4 then 2 games. He had a monster recruiting class his first year and played lots of youth in his first two years.


I'm not calling for Jones head. I am simply pointing out obvious things that do not compare well for him. You are devoted to making excuses and dismissing anything you find unpleasant.

Sorry about that... When I see good... I'll call it good. When I see bad... I'll call it bad. When Jones compares well then I'll say so and praise him. When he fails or compares poorly... I'll point that out too.
 
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#109
#109
BigOrangeTrain said:
Has either of those teams had to replace both the OL and DL?
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Mizzou lost 4 of their starting front 7 on D and 3 of 4 DB's. They lost all three of their best receivers and their two best OL's.

Don't make excuses. The OL isn't playing well. We are all speculating as to why... but there are many valid possibilities. One undeniable fact is that this staff has chosen who to play and did not in two cases choose players that they've had the most time to develop. While 2 Fr start.... Sanders, Wiesman, Kendrick, etc sit.

Maybe they made the exact right decision... maybe they didn't develop those players well enough... maybe they lack talent... whatever the reason the coaches chose who to play, developed the players, recruited a good portion of them.... so they own responsibility.
 
#110
#110
sjt18 said:
Mizzou lost 4 of their starting front 7 on D and 3 of 4 DB's. They lost all three of their best receivers and their two best OL's.
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I thought we were comparing the Mullen, Freeze, and Butch rebuilding jobs. Why are we talking about Missouri now?
 
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#111
#111
EZE said:
Have you considered that Mullen has been at MSU six years and Freeze at Miss for three?
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This is the logic you were looking for

How many Freshmen did the other two teams play?

How many NON-SEC top 5 teams did the other teams play at the beginning of the season?
 
#113
#113
I think what we are seeing is Butch and the coaching staff's ability to get this team to play their hearts out and put together a great performance overall on the field against a talented UGA team significantly bloated our expectations of what was going to happen against Florida. This young team went from playing their best game to their worst in a week. This is not very surprising considering Florida had an extra week to scheme and these young guys gave everything against UGA.

The fact of the matter is the sample size just isn't big enough yet to know what kind of coach Butch is going to be in the end. What we do know is that he is a stellar recruiter and will leave a good roster if he doesn't succeed in the next 3-4 years.

It's all a matter of perspective right now. In August we weren't sure if we could beat Utah State and we were all thinking 6-6 season was the goal. 6-6 is still the goal and still very plausible.
 
#114
#114
So what's the point?

Fire Jones and replace him with whom?

This is so stupid.

How does this crap help anything?
 
#115
#115
37L1 said:
So what's the point?

Fire Jones and replace him with whom?

This is so stupid.

How does this crap help anything?
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I don't think anyone is calling for Jones to be fired, but some are expressing concerns they have after a 4 quarter meltdown Saturday. I don't think anyone on here could argue against the fact that the way that game was lost was very similar to some losses Dooley had on the hill. I think it scares people.
 
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#116
#116
Volsfaninva917 said:
I don't think anyone is calling for Jones to be fired, but some are expressing concerns they have after a 4 quarter meltdown Saturday. I don't think anyone on here could argue against the fact that the way that game was lost was very similar to some losses Dooley had on the hill. I think it scares people.
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If you are not suggesting that he be replaced, then what exactly are you suggesting? If you truly believe that he can get it done, then why the unrelenting criticism after a poor performance?
 
#117
#117
sjt18 said:
If I made it up then you should be able to very easily point to facts that refute it.... but you probably know that you can't.

In the 5 years prior to Mullen's arrival at MSU they had one winning season while posting an overall record of 21-38. That... is an irrefutable FACT. He posted a 5-7 record in year one and no losing records since. Overall he's 36-28 and now has his team ranked in the top 10.

These teams may well have more talent than UT NOW... but that's not the comparison. The comparison is how they did in the first two years AFTER these coaches took over difficult situations compared to what Jones is doing.



Mullen went 9-4 in year two. He did not have an extremely talented team.

Freeze has made and won two bowl games to start his tenure at Ole Miss. We was 8-5 last year with a win over LSU. In the two years before he took over, the Rebels won 4 then 2 games. He had a monster recruiting class his first year and played lots of youth in his first two years.


I'm not calling for Jones head. I am simply pointing out obvious things that do not compare well for him. You are devoted to making excuses and dismissing anything you find unpleasant.

Sorry about that... When I see good... I'll call it good. When I see bad... I'll call it bad. When Jones compares well then I'll say so and praise him. When he fails or compares poorly... I'll point that out too.
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They did not take over more difficult situations and CBJ did not inherit more talent. It really isn't that difficult to understand or require three paragraphs to justify. UT is one of the most difficult jobs in the country made even more difficult by two previous disastrous coaching hires.
 
#118
#118
landscapingvol said:
If you are not suggesting that he be replaced, then what exactly are you suggesting? If you truly believe that he can get it done, then why the unrelenting criticism after a poor performance?
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Ah I was just mad like everyone else but I never lashed out calling for Jones job. I do question why we are remaining in this offense, which I think is fair. I think 2 TE set would help a lot or even the I formation with 2 wr and a TE would help this young line and simplify things for Worley.
 
#120
#120
landscapingvol said:
They did not take over more difficult situations and CBJ did not inherit more talent. It really isn't that difficult to understand or require three paragraphs to justify. UT is one of the most difficult jobs in the country made even more difficult by two previous disastrous coaching hires.
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Common excuses for the sheep. This was not the worst program in American college football history.

Stop kidding yourselves.
 
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