Excellent Explanation of Possible Violations

#76
#76
I dont really think it will either but if it did happen it would be terrible for our program because of the way we are right now.
 
#77
#77
vol4life80 said:
makes u wonder... no alcohol related charges?... c'mon now
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Found the lack of alcohol charges interesting as well. The bar owner's wife referred to the injured officer as a "friend". Curious if they have other friends within the KPD?

According to their web site, the bar does have nights when all patrons get in free. Also, former students that were not athletes have posted that they have been given free admission to Bar Knoxville. Sounds like the "VIP" practice is far from exclusive to UT athletes.
 
#78
#78
VOLinCO said:
Found the lack of alcohol charges interesting as well. The bar owner's wife referred to the injured officer as a "friend". Curious if they have other friends within the KPD?

According to their web site, the bar does have nights when all patrons get in free. Also, former students that were not athletes have posted that they have been given free admission to Bar Knoxville. Sounds like the "VIP" practice is far from exclusive to UT athletes.
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u would think VIP would get u a free drunk... no breath test... no field sob test... no report of alcohol relating to the incident.... am i missin something???
 
#79
#79
Riiiight. They need the students (fb players) to look bad. But not @ the expense of exposing their habit of feeding booz to underage fb players. But we are semi-OK if we establish that its not treatment reserved ONLY for fb players. Hell, ill tell the NCAA I'm a VIP in that joint.
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#80
#80
Not surprising by CFL. I have actually pretty much stopped watching that show. Not really important until the season starts anyway. They just dig and reach for s@!*. It's like I said in another thread, CFL is like the movie Groundhog Day. Same story ... with a different spin , everyday over and over and over until they have spun it every way they can. NFL Live actually has off-season news. CFL is a bunch of ESPN scrubs in the off-season who sit around and bastardize college football.
 
#81
#81
Orangekush423 said:
Riiiight. They need the students (fb players) to look bad. But not @ the expense of exposing their habit of feeding booz to underage fb players. But we are semi-OK if we establish that its not treatment reserved ONLY for fb players. Hell, ill tell the NCAA I'm a VIP in that joint.
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That should be believable... :whistling:
 
#83
#83
lane_train said:
I dont really think it will either but if it did happen it would be terrible for our program because of the way we are right now.
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An Ncaa hammer just wouldn't make sense here , but because the bar wench said publicly that they were let in free, it has to be investigated. The only real problem UT has from this is the possible loss of more quality depth due to internal punishment. But a couple "decent" seasons aren't worth the taint these thugs are bringing on UT.
 
#84
#84
Wezcoast said:
An Ncaa hammer just wouldn't make sense here , but because the bar wench said publicly that they were let in free, it has to be investigated. The only real problem UT has from this is the possible loss of more quality depth due to internal punishment. But a couple "decent" seasons aren't worth the taint these thugs are bringing on UT.
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Major or Not? Tennessee’s Cover Charge Violation | The Bylaw Blog

i see secondary at-most... "how much of a paper-trail does free cover leave?"... everyone wants to blow this up but really... this is vague at best
 
#86
#86
I saw it explained on the news last night. Because UT football players weren't the only ones receiving VIP treatment then it shouldn't be a violation. More than likely this will be nothing.
 
#87
#87
going to be hard for anyone to prove anything about cover charge considering that is "cash only".....No paper trail to prove how many people(total not just athletes)were there on those nights and that the players didnt pay. word of mouth can only go so far in courtroom...wouldnt shock me if some dirt gets dug up on the bar owners to ruin their credibility
 
#88
#88
also VIP in knox is not the same thing as in hollywood or miami...you can call a place and tell them we have tons of people coming and you get VIP status and discounted drinks athlete or frat or normal person.
 
#90
#90
Orangekush423 said:
Also, how in the HELL can anyone even know that they knew they were being given special treatment. For all we know, they walked up to the door and dude told them to come in. Are they now responsible for knowing the cover for the previous patrons, and getting their rulebook out and making sure they aren't being treated special?? GTFO 'AA. That is ridiculous. I would tell them I didn't know anything about a "cover". I jus walked to the door and they let me in. Am I supposed to question the bouncer as to make sure I'm in compliance? Yeh, right.
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here is what needs to be understood.

The NCAA doesn't have to prove anything one way or the other. They are not a court of law but a governing body that has a set of rules.

When something comes to light, like the owner saying what she said, they notify the institution to address it or if the institution is proactive they will go ahead and initiate an investigation. We are looking into it already is what I understand and I'm certain the NCAA hasn't asked us to yet.

It is always on the institution to address the "charges". They provide NCAA with their findings and the NCAA can accpet, reject and/or do their own investiagtion. At end of day, NCAA will decide punishment but they decide that based on institution findings and/or their own findings combined.

One concern with this current issue is the open investigation on the hostess-gate thingy. The fact it is still open on books and something else coming to light means NCAA more apt to come nosing around. How we address the VIP thing could help with keeping them out of town..
 
#91
#91
GoVols2003 said:
Surely he will be bright enough to google BAR KNOXVILLE and then follow the link the section of the website that says "Specials." There he will see that on at least 2 nights a week (Thurs & Fri) where free admission is offered. I assume that it would not be too hard to find a dozen or two students around campus who have been "comped" because of who they are/know.
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I bet that how we handle is to put in an off limts policy for our athletes. We do that and have Andre stop in from time to time and that will be fine. JMO
 
#92
#92
LWSVOL said:
I bet that how we handle is to put in an off limts policy for our athletes. We do that and have Andre stop in from time to time and that will be fine. JMO
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Thanks LWS for the information.... I appriciate you posts, they are always informative, even when they point out things I wish I didn't know :good!:
 
#93
#93
ole_orange said:
Chill guys. This is going to be identical to last year when some Bama booster took Julio Jones and Mark Inghram on a free fishing trip. Nothing.
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Riiiight... except the guy with the boat had kids at Auburn and is an Auburn booster. Jones had known him for years. None of that mattered. In the NCAA's eyes, it could be viewed as an extra benefit. The danger then was that if they participated in a game and the NCAA later deemed them ineligible, we have to forfeit the games they participated in. Accordingly, the school declared them ineligible until the NCAA cleared them. As I recall, they were cleared by the NCAA several weeks later and after repaying the Auburn booster for their portion of the cost of the fishing outing.

I suspect right now the TN staff is determining the most prudent path to take re this VIP stuff.

GreyWolf1129 said:
And here is where I agree with you. If you're a Vol fan, this place is no longer on the map. Period...end of statement. They cut their own throat.
....
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Great idea! :unsure: Vol fans should do all they can to shut down this business. I'm sure the owners would still feel a strong affinity for TN and won't share any harmful info with the NCAA investigative goons. :whistling:

Orangekush423 said:
Here's my thing, its not like our ADept set this up with the Bar. If an establishment wants to pick people to allow in for free, (Player or not) can the NCAA say isht ab it? They are wandering outside their bounderies on this aren't they? How in the HELL could they expect us(UTADept) to control this? Tell our athletes NOT to go in free to anywhere, no matter what?? I just don't see how this can be put on the institution. Help me guys?
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Agree. It isn't an institutional issue. But the rules still cover rogue boosters and improper benefits, even if the institution didn't know about it. We have some experience in that area...:no:

NCAA enforcement arm is horrendously slow. If there's nothing to this VIP stuff, you'll hear about it in a few months. Same with hostessgate. But it's a downer to be living with the aura of uncertainty that naturally arises when the NCAA is poking around. Again from experience...
 
#94
#94
BamaFossil said:
Riiiight... except the guy with the boat had kids at Auburn and is an Auburn booster. Jones had known him for years. None of that mattered. In the NCAA's eyes, it could be viewed as an extra benefit. The danger then was that if they participated in a game and the NCAA later deemed them ineligible, we have to forfeit the games they participated in. Accordingly, the school declared them ineligible until the NCAA cleared them. As I recall, they were cleared by the NCAA several weeks later and after repaying the Auburn booster for their portion of the cost of the fishing outing.

I suspect right now the TN staff is determining the most prudent path to take re this VIP stuff.


Great idea! :unsure: Vol fans should do all they can to shut down this business. I'm sure the owners would still feel a strong affinity for TN and won't share any harmful info with the NCAA investigative goons. :whistling:



Agree. It isn't an institutional issue. But the rules still cover rogue boosters and improper benefits, even if the institution didn't know about it. We have some experience in that area...:no:

NCAA enforcement arm is horrendously slow. If there's nothing to this VIP stuff, you'll hear about it in a few months. Same with hostessgate. But it's a downer to be living with the aura of uncertainty that naturally arises when the NCAA is poking around. Again from experience...
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Too bad the NCAA thought it was normal for kids to be driving around in Escalades at the age of 18. Mc Donalds minimum wage must be like 50K a year down in bamma land.
 
#97
#97
I don't know about all this, I don't think we will ever as fans get the whole story from either side. However I am glad that Dooley is our coach. I don't know what he will do as of wins, but no one can take away the man is very smart, and I have all the confidence in the world in him in this situation to keep the damages at a minimum.
 
#98
#98
BigOrangeD said:
You gotta think this goes on everywhere. Maybe we should call for an investigation of every school.
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Every school just didn't have 10 football players present or involved in beating the $hat of a couple of Cops...That was at Tennessee.

Don't defend these foolish actions, or try to spin them.. It happened. We need to figure out how to prevent them from happening again...JMO..

GBO
 
#99
#99
Because the NCAA is comprised of a bunch of absolute idiots, I can't use the word certain, but I am having a very difficult time seeing how anything 'major' comes of this. The VIP card is not something that football players get, and therefore seems a lot less like special treatment/gifts than something that is offered to them strictly as a football player.

With that said, it probably meets the definition of a gift and could result in a minor violation, IMO. However, I personally think that the NCAA needs to go choke on their own feces if they do anything more than shrug their shoulders at things like this.
 
#100
#100
LWSVOL said:
I bet that how we handle is to put in an off limts policy for our athletes. We do that and have Andre stop in from time to time and that will be fine. JMO
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This is how it works in the Army. A good example is the Cat West outside of Ft. Campbell. That place has been on and off the black ball list so many times.
 
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