Examining what I consider a Cliche - Creating your own Shot

[stllvf]

So many comments on a player, can not create her own shot, usually about the 3-point shot.

first, wording: creating and taking her own GOOD shot

a player who can attack the basket (pardon another cliche) makes the decision to create her own shot hoping to make it, get fouled and not blocked. Many posters have concerns on the number of missed layups. "were they GOOD layup shots?

Point guards almost by definition can create their own (good or suspect) shots. C. C. by definition demonstrated that.

Offense system has team/coaches determination on what should be a good shot. A team willing to take the whole shot clock if needbe to hopefully acquire (and make0 a good shot.

What is the definition of creating your own shot in the offense run by the Lady Vols? who are the acceptable (good shot creators) in the starting ten?

thanks for reading, but I offer this thread is for constructive thought from many of you I respect.

 

[NoBackBoard]

For me, creating your own shot means you can get a bucket or fouled with the ball in your hands at the top of the key.

Cooper and Whitehorn can do that.

 

[Ladyvols4ever!]

AP women's college basketball poll reaction: What's next for Top 25 teams

After USC's loss to Iowa, we offer a key stat and what's ahead for the top teams in women's basketball.

www.espn.com

 

[lvocd]

Yes, Cooper and (sometimes) Whitehorn. Also, Spencer has a quick enough first step that she gets loose to drive in 8-10 feet away from the basket pretty well and COULD be pulling up quickly there to take mid-range jumpers all day. Only she doesn't try to shoot that shot. She goes a dribble or three too deep and gets smothered by collapsing defenses instead. If I were Kim I'd be having her working on taking that shot. Timing would be everything, but Spencer is smart. She'd get it seared into her muscle memory if she'd just practice it often enough.

Unfortunately, I don't think we have any others this year who are even acceptable, much less good, shot creators. If they're not open already due to the opponent's defense being late to find them, they're unlikely to have any moves of their own crafty enough to get free for an open shot. It's the lack of lateral quickness/explosiveness that hurts them.

But ya know, I actually think Avery Strickland is pretty quick, and I hope in the upcoming off-season she works extra hard on developing some head/ball fakes and a slippery step-back move to get free. She could then either shoot the open shot she just earned, or make a quick couple of dribbles toward the basket before pulling up for the jumper BEFORE reaching the collapsing defense. She could also change her mind and make another pass outside the covered area.

Just babbling here. lol

 

[37620VOL]

@stllvf good points in your OP. To address your last question first, a good shot is easily defined IMO. A good shot follows the rule of 1. We want efficiency of >1 point per shot taken. So unless a specific situation dictates otherwise, a player should take any 2p shot that they can make >50% of the time and any 3p shot they can make >33% of the time.

Regarding creating your own shot, I prefer offensive motion to "create the shots". I love a well-designed offensive set That is not the priority of our current offense. My second choice of offense is our current one: spread the court, run an action to put the defense in some stress, let a "creator" attack the basket, if the double team comes creator kicks to an open 3. In this system, you have to have a good creator - one that can create their own scoring opportunity as well as recognizing opportunities for others. We currently have 3 creators: Cooper, Spencer, and Whitehorn.

Cooper is well-rounded at finishing her own opportunities as well as dishing to others.
Spencer is better at dishing than finishing.
Whitehorn is better finishing than dishing.
Boyd might develop these skills at some point.

You really need great shooters and rebounders around your creator to get the best results.

 

[madtownvol]

So many comments on a player, can not create her own shot, usually about the 3-point shot.

first, wording: creating and taking her own GOOD shot

a player who can attack the basket (pardon another cliche) makes the decision to create her own shot hoping to make it, get fouled and not blocked. Many posters have concerns on the number of missed layups. "were they GOOD layup shots?

Point guards almost by definition can create their own (good or suspect) shots. C. C. by definition demonstrated that.

Offense system has team/coaches determination on what should be a good shot. A team willing to take the whole shot clock if needbe to hopefully acquire (and make0 a good shot.

What is the definition of creating your own shot in the offense run by the Lady Vols? who are the acceptable (good shot creators) in the starting ten?

thanks for reading, but I offer this thread is for constructive thought from many of you I respect.

Yep, creating your own shot is a cliche and it is a misleading one at that.

Instead, let's call it players that are hard to guard in one-one situations. So, Rickea's turn around jumper was to hard to guard because she could shoot over most guards and she could fade a back which out it out of reach of a bigger defender.

Players like Caitlin Clark and Step Curry are hard to guard because they are perpetual motion machines and they have a very quick release.

Cooper is hard to guard because she can shoot over smaller defenders and blow by bigger ones.

A "good shot" is a shot a player can make at a reasonably high percentage. An open 3 pt is a good shot for Tess but not necessarily Jillian. Conversely, a shot in the paint area is a generally a good shot for Jillian but not necessarily Tess.

 

[Coach Jumper]

,,,Rickea's turn around jumper was to hard to guard because she could shoot over most guards and she could fade a back which out it out of reach of a bigger defender.

Rickea had a very good reverse-pivot-one-dribble drive to the hoop, but she wasn't effective with that until someone told her to develop a counter move that went in the other direction, which was a back-pivot fade-away

a player who can attack the basket (pardon another cliche) makes the decision to create her own shot hoping to make it, get fouled and not blocked. Many posters have concerns on the number of missed layups. "were they GOOD layup shots?

Latham is athletic and long enough to develop Rickea-type os offense,,,hope she gets a good summer coach to aid her in this

I am going to dissect the game later today: missed makeable bunnies, missed open layups, turnovers forced-not forced

For me, creating your own shot means you can get a bucket or fouled with the ball in your hands at the top of the key.

Cooper and Whitehorn can do that.

Also needed with a good first step and a good technique on the finish,,,is a set-up move to make the defender pause or react..e.g..a shot fake, ball swing etc

 

[Rooster1]

Creating your own shot requires a player with good handles on the ball and great movement off the ball.

A good shot is any shot a player can make at a good percentage as long as it is within the strategy of the team at that moment. A good shot for CC as an example is often different than a good shot for another player, everyone has a different skill set.

 

[GameTime]

Creating your own shot requires a player with good handles on the ball and great movement off the ball.

A good shot is any shot a player can make at a good percentage as long as it is within the strategy of the team at that moment. A good shot for CC as an example is often different than a good shot for another player, everyone has a different skill set.

Hell of a good post son....

 

[1morevol]

For me, creating your own shot means you can get a bucket or fouled with the ball in your hands at the top of the key.

Cooper and Whitehorn can do that.

Creating your own shot requires a player with good handles on the ball and great movement off the ball.

A good shot is any shot a player can make at a good percentage as long as it is within the strategy of the team at that moment. A good shot for CC as an example is often different than a good shot for another player, everyone has a different skill set.

Yes, and with those two skills there are any number of ways a player can get/create a good shot.

 

[stllvf]

I will bring up this thread again If I were to start over the title would be create and also MAKE their own three point shot

as I'm reading so many May 2025 "I think comments" on the coming players in the coming year will be better than this year. In the year just completed the team made threes at less than one of three - .325 for all games and .3 against SEC opponents. And Spear's percentage was the only significant one worth even mentioning. To those who write comments but never review the stats, we can only hope the percentages increase.

 

[madtownvol]

I will bring up this thread again If I were to start over the title would be create and also MAKE their own three point shot

as I'm reading so many May 2025 "I think comments" on the coming players in the coming year will be better than this year. In the year just completed the team made threes at less than one of three - .325 for all games and .3 against SEC opponents. And Spear's percentage was the only significant one worth even mentioning. To those who write comments but never review the stats, we can only hope the percentages increase.

So, the real title would actually, who can make their three point shots. I am lost as to what your point and/or question is really seeking to accomplish. Would it be better for the LVs to have more shooters who can hit over 40% than they did last year? Yes!!!.

Will that happen? Well, it depends on how will they shoot the ball. What else is there to say?

 

[chuckiepoo]

I will bring up this thread again If I were to start over the title would be create and also MAKE their own three point shot

as I'm reading so many May 2025 "I think comments" on the coming players in the coming year will be better than this year. In the year just completed the team made threes at less than one of three - .325 for all games and .3 against SEC opponents. And Spear's percentage was the only significant one worth even mentioning. To those who write comments but never review the stats, we can only hope the percentages increase.

10.8 of 25.8, 41.8% (3 pt shots total/game) will not be returning.

 

[1morevol]

Would a player have created their own shot on any shot that did not have an assist attached to it?

 

[Coach Jumper]

To me, "creating your own shot" is only in one circumstance...You are in possession with the ball (with or without a live dribble) and in a circumstance where you do not have an unguarded-open look and have to use movement or set-up moves in which to get an open look....meaning, if your dribble is live, you use that dribble (with or without a setup move) to get an open look and if your dribble has been used, you use set-up moves (e.g...upNunder, reverse-pivot-fade, step-through, etc) to get an open look.

You have to "create your open look"

Would a player have created their own shot on any shot that did not have an assist attached to it?

No...there is no open-look created for a wide open unguarded shot

 

[creekdipper]

Crossover, jab step, fadeaway, step back, drive & pull up, reverse dribble/behind the back, hesitation & shoot/lay in, ball fake/head fake/pass fake, using screensetc.

Old school lingo was "getting yourself open with the ball for a shot."

First cousin to off-the-ball movement, pick and roll, back door cuts, hard cuts across lane, posting up, etc. All part of "getting yourself open without the ball in order to receive a pass while you're in scoring position."

 

[madtownvol]

Crossover, jab step, fadeaway, step back, drive & pull up, reverse dribble/behind the back, hesitation & shoot/lay in, ball fake/head fake/pass fake, using screensetc.

Old school lingo was "getting yourself open with the ball for a shot."

First cousin to off-the-ball movement, pick and roll, back door cuts, hard cuts across lane, posting up, etc. All part of "getting yourself open without the ball in order to receive a pass while you're in scoring position."

"Old school" is the best school!

This thread remains puzzling, though. What is the issue being discussed?

Creating your own shot means you get score consistently when being guarded. It is the opposite of when a team swings the ball around and the defense leaves one player wide open in the perimeter.

In the latter case, the shot was created by ball movement and perhaps a defensive lapse (or design). If you are bad three point shooter, you will always be left open because the odds favor the defense.

 

[lvocd]

Right. The best players in the world are those who, at the end of a tight game and when everyone in the arena knows full well who is going to take the last shot, takes the shot. That player, even heavily guarded, can be depended on to shake free enough to take (and likely make) the game-winning shot. And perhaps most importantly, that player WANTS THE BALL on that last play. They don’t *think* they can get open to take the game winner, they KNOW THEY WILL.

Those players are exceedingly rare.

 

[lvocd]

Going off my last post, which Lady Vols in the past or present, if any, do y’all think fit the description of the über confident and capable shot-creator, wants-and-gets-the-ball-at-crunchtime, successful go-to player?

 

[NoBackBoard]

Going off my last post, which Lady Vols in the past or present, if any, do y’all think fit the description of the über confident and capable shot-creator, wants-and-gets-the-ball-at-crunchtime, successful go-to player?

Bridgette Gordon, Michelle Marciniak, Chamique Holdsclaw, Candace Parker, Meighan Simmons….TBD

 

[creekdipper]

Bridgette Gordon, Michelle Marciniak, Chamique Holdsclaw, Candace Parker, Meighan Simmons….TBD

...Tamika Catchings....

 

[madtownvol]

Going off my last post, which Lady Vols in the past or present, if any, do y’all think fit the description of the über confident and capable shot-creator, wants-and-gets-the-ball-at-crunchtime, successful go-to player?

Obvious answers are CP3, Holdsclaw, Catchings, and Lawson. Evina Westbrook (I know persona non grata) had that same mindset but injuries held her back. I think Rennia Davis had that quality as well at times but she had other games where she would hide (such a great but enigmatic player).

Meighan Simmons in her best season. More recently, Rickea. I think Coop has the mindset but needs a bit more consistency in her shot to be that Player. Jordan Horston same story.

[Edit in reference to NoBackBoard's post -- yes, Bridgette Gordon and "Spinderella" for sure!!!]

 

[37620VOL]

I will bring up this thread again If I were to start over the title would be create and also MAKE their own three point shot

as I'm reading so many May 2025 "I think comments" on the coming players in the coming year will be better than this year. In the year just completed the team made threes at less than one of three - .325 for all games and .3 against SEC opponents. And Spear's percentage was the only significant one worth even mentioning. To those who write comments but never review the stats, we can only hope the percentages increase.

32.5% from 3 is as good as 50% from 2, or even better once you factor in the additional offensive rebounds.

 

[37620VOL]

Right. The best players in the world are those who, at the end of a tight game and when everyone in the arena knows full well who is going to take the last shot, takes the shot. That player, even heavily guarded, can be depended on to shake free enough to take (and likely make) the game-winning shot. And perhaps most importantly, that player WANTS THE BALL on that last play. They don’t *think* they can get open to take the game winner, they KNOW THEY WILL.

Those players are exceedingly rare.

I know Cooper can be that player. She cannot be stopped 1 vs 1. The key is having the talent around her to make them pay for every double team, see end of 1997 NBA Finals Game 1, and the team knowing how to play off of what she creates, see end of 1993 NBA Finals Game 6. (spoiler: MJ took neither game-winning shot even though he started with the ball)

 

[stllvf]

I re opened the thread because I believe that creating and making the three point shot against top opponents who have strong post defense is essential for the LVs next. year. the victory against FLA atlantic that team packed inside and didn't really defend the three point line. Texas as coach stated in post game took us out of our game plan

UConn in three very significant games against UCLA and SC twice won lopsided and the oppponents went 4-16 3-17 and 4-16.

the great players identified above created their shots via slashing or inside the paint success. Catching I remember most of her ability to know where a missed shot would rebound and being there.

Clarke, the current example, create her own shot Curry is making $55 m this year because of that ability.