Evan Berry Kick Return Fumble

#101
#101
tennrich1 said:
Yeah I agree with this...by the letter of the law...IT IS TARGETING...now having said that I do agree that it was NOT and intentional target and that Berry did lower his helmet a bit...BUT THE RULE THE WAY ITS STATED IS CLEAR...CANT LEAD WITH YOUR HEAD AND SAYS NOTHING ABOUT THE OTHER PLAYER "LOWERING" HIS HEAD AND CAUSING THE HIT...Just badly worded rule IMO....
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Show me one time Targeting has been called against a player that was not defenseless...

Just one, in all of college football...there has to be one right? Somewhere? Anywhere?

There isn't? How can that be... It's because helmet to helmet hits happen all the time in football games, they're only flagged if it's against a defenseless player, whether we agree or not.



Note 2: Defenseless player (Rule 2-27-14):

A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass.

A receiver attempting to catch a forward pass or in position to receive a backward pass, or one who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a ball carrier.

A kicker in the act of or just after kicking a ball, or during the kick or the return.

A kick returner attempting to catch or recover a kick, or one who has completed a catch or recovery and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a ball carrier.

A player on the ground.

A player obviously out of the play.

A player who receives a blind-side block.

A ball carrier already in the grasp of an opponent and whose forward progress has been stopped.

A quarterback any time after a change of possession.

A ball carrier who has obviously given himself up and is sliding feet-first.
 
#102
#102
That's been posted about a dozen times now and has been shown to be irrelevant every time. In regards to 9-3-1, the player need not be defenseless.
 
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#103
#103
Cdywolfe said:
That's been posted about a dozen times now and has been shown to be irrelevant every time. In regards to 9-3-1, the player need not be defenseless.
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The time to argue has passed, sort of like all that alcohol..right through my system.
I'm still irritated but it isn't why we lost.

After a nights sleep, I'm starting to realize I just watched an amazing football game
 
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#104
#104
Kristy* said:
This. He clearly lead with the crown of his helmet and shouldn't have still been in the game for the 2 calls that went his way.
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That picture show what the targeting call should be. He was not trying to tackle - he was trying to spear.
 
#105
#105
ClockworkOrange said:
Lots of borderline dirty plays. Multiple targeting that wasn't called, lots of spearing, horse collars, hooking our receivers. Plus someone on the sidelines kept blowing a whistle on crucial plays who wasn't a ref. including the long run by Knight.
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I kept hearing that whistle also and thought it was a dead play on offense for a&m multiple times. I also thought from the beginning that the hit on Obrien was targeting also if he had done that it would have been the guy lowered his head and hit him.
 
#106
#106
There's a reason there is two different criteria. If 9-3-1 (crown hits) require the player to be defenseless (which I guess they just "accidentily" forgot to mention in the wording of the rule. Oppps...), then it would be redundant and pointless. 9-4-1 clarifies hits that are prohibited concerning defenselss player along with the criteria for what makes a player defenselss. 9-3-1 clarifies which hits are prohibited period, as the words defenseless player appears no where in the rule.
 
#108
#108
I'll just say...the SEC clearly wanted A&M to win that game. Two or three missed/no call penalties happens every game...but 9 is no accident
 
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#109
#109
Ignorance is bliss I suppose

UT_Tix79 said:
Show me one time Targeting has been called against a player that was not defenseless...

Just one, in all of college football...there has to be one right? Somewhere? Anywhere?

There isn't? How can that be... It's because helmet to helmet hits happen all the time in football games, they're only flagged if it's against a defenseless player, whether we agree or not.



Note 2: Defenseless player (Rule 2-27-14):

A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass.

A receiver attempting to catch a forward pass or in position to receive a backward pass, or one who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a ball carrier.

A kicker in the act of or just after kicking a ball, or during the kick or the return.

A kick returner attempting to catch or recover a kick, or one who has completed a catch or recovery and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a ball carrier.

A player on the ground.

A player obviously out of the play.

A player who receives a blind-side block.

A ball carrier already in the grasp of an opponent and whose forward progress has been stopped.

A quarterback any time after a change of possession.

A ball carrier who has obviously given himself up and is sliding feet-first.
Click to expand...
 
#110
#110
LittleCat said:
So I guess JRM is a POS? Or the played who hit #12 later? A lot of these plays are super fast, and it's hard to say they are doing it on purpose. Certainly some targeting is purposeful, but I'm not sure #12 was going there to KO Berry the same way JRM wasn't going out to hit the PR.

Knee jerk reaction whenever someone you cheer for is hit like that.
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The player who hit #12 was Vol legacy Nigel Warrior. Their running back Mike Ford and others led with the crown of their helmets all game . You need to GTFO Kentucky Fan.
 
#111
#111
Wilhelm16 said:
The refs were clearly in the bag for A&M. I hate to say that considering we turned the ball over 6 times (I refuse to count Berry's fumble on the no call). They did everything in their power to shorten the field for A&M
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Agreed. I kinda understand what the "12th man" is all about now.
 
#112
#112
https://twitter.com/TrevorSikkema/status/784853648333471756

Here is a link to the hit. #12 lowered his head and cought Berry on the jaw. After the play is over how dangerous this hit was for BOTH players is evident by the position of the white on #12's helmet. Props to him for the hustle but he plays with reckless abandon. This is no longer allowed in football due to safety concerns. Lowering his head like that opens himself up for

FYI credit for the video goes to the owner of the linked Twitter account.
 
#113
#113
I missed it first time thru but, definitely led with the crown of his head second time I saw it. Ditto the reckless abandon comment. If you are going to call it, be consistent.
 
#114
#114
orchidvol said:
Agreed. I kinda understand what the "12th man" is all about now.
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Yeah, pretty much an assassin. Take a player with enough talent to hit but not smart enough to really play football and turn him into a human torpedo or cannon ball. I guess some A&M tradition isn't respectable after all.
 
#116
#116
LittleCat said:
So I guess JRM is a POS? Or the played who hit #12 later? A lot of these plays are super fast, and it's hard to say they are doing it on purpose. Certainly some targeting is purposeful, but I'm not sure #12 was going there to KO Berry the same way JRM wasn't going out to hit the PR.

Knee jerk reaction whenever someone you cheer for is hit like that.
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Totally unequal comparison. JRM hit the other player with his right ear-hole and low (other player ducking simultaneously) and did not know he had called a fair catch. TAM #12 left his feet, led with the CROWN OF HIS HELMET (see marks left on top of helmet after play from EB face mask) and hit Berry who was in an upright position.

Knee-jerk reaction by LittleCat.
 
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#117
#117
apevol said:
You are in direct contradiction of the rulebook. What you're saying was correct a few years ago. Not now. It was a penalty.
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Not if they don't flag it....which they hardly ever do unless it's a defenseless player or a QB; especially if the shot comes from the front.
 
#118
#118
Wilhelm16 said:
The refs were clearly in the bag for A&M. I hate to say that considering we turned the ball over 6 times (I refuse to count Berry's fumble on the no call). They did everything in their power to shorten the field for A&M
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Including the TAM downed punt on the 2 yard line. The ball likely broke the plain of the goal line for a touchback. The replay insinuates it but could not confirm. However, it is clear by the angle and shadow that it likely touched the plain. The ref was right on the line but didn't call it. Really iffy. Since the guy was on his way out of the end zone it just looked like a bad call.
 
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#119
#119
A-RodWiLks said:
I'll just say...the SEC clearly wanted A&M to win that game. Two or three missed/no call penalties happens every game...but 9 is no accident
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Hate to agree but I do in this case. You can't ignore what you saw Saturday. There's an obvious bias....and I hate being that type of fan, but it's the truth. As for #12...I'm a huge Warrior fan now. Not saying I condone taking a shot in retaliation, but hell yes I do. I'm tire of being on the receiving end. If opponents want to play that way, fine. Let's roll.
 
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#121
#121
CAVPUT said:
Hate to agree but I do in this case. You can't ignore what you saw Saturday. There's an obvious bias....and I hate being that type of fan, but it's the truth. As for #12...I'm a huge Warrior fan now. Not saying I condone taking a shot in retaliation, but hell yes I do. I'm tire of being on the receiving end. If opponents want to play that way, fine. Let's roll.
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I feel the same way now. Let's tko everybody that we play. I want us to make every team we play feel us after games and Sunday's.
 
#122
#122
The call on Bates for the late hit out of bounds wasn't even close to a penalty. Verne and Gary even acknowledged.
 
#123
#123
UT_Tix79 said:
You need to rewatch it, you can see him crawling and reaching for the ball, and then the A&M player slides in and Berry was out.
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Watch again, he was out, the movement you see from Berry was an A&M player rolling while holding his leg. The roll turned Berry, then he was hit in the head again when they dove for the ball.
 
#124
#124
Come on folks. If anyone on here thinks the Refs intentionally botch calls, you're crazy. These guys are human beings that make mistakes. I can point out several missed calls that went in our favor. Our 1st TD we had a lineman 5 yards down field, our freshman Corner back had him a handful of jersey for about 10 yards on A&Ms last drive, etc. Warriors hit was clearly targeting.

I totally agree The hit on Berry was targeting and should have been called, it being reviewable makes it an inexcusable mistake. But I don't for one minute think it was intentional in A&M's favor.

On to Bama and lets get the biggest win since 1998!
 
#125
#125
ClockworkOrange said:
Lots of borderline dirty plays. Multiple targeting that wasn't called, lots of spearing, horse collars, hooking our receivers. Plus someone on the sidelines kept blowing a whistle on crucial plays who wasn't a ref. including the long run by Knight.
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Ya know I thought I heard a whistle blow before the play and wondered why they kept going with the play, that makes sense now
 
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