Evan Berry Kick Return Fumble

[CLCVol]

If you're running with the ball, then you're not considered a defenseless player, hence the no call. Sucks but seriously proud of this team they've played with so much heart the entire year. This loss has been the easiest for me to accept since I can remember

"Defenseless" is not the only definition of targeting. Will people look up the definition before commenting?

 

[nagle]

"Defenseless" is not the only definition of targeting. Will people look up the definition before commenting?

lol, i get this, but those refs decided we was gonna get beat up before the game begun.

 

[volnation2217]

Below is how the targeting rule reads when dealing with hits that are made on non-defenseless players like Berry was on his play. It states that a hit to the head does not immediately mean targeting, but that if they lead with the crown of their helmet and make one of the moves listed in Note 1 it is a foul:

No player shall target and make forcible contact against an opponent with the crown (top) of his helmet. This foul requires that there be at least one indicator of targeting (See Note 1 below). When in question, it is a foul.

Note 1: "Targeting" means that a player takes aim at an opponent for purposes of attacking with forcible contact that goes beyond making a legal tackle or a legal block or playing the ball. Some indicators of targeting include but are not limited to:

Launch—a player leaving his feet to attack an opponent by an upward and forward thrust of the body to make forcible contact in the head or neck area
A crouch followed by an upward and forward thrust to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area, even though one or both feet are still on the ground
Leading with helmet, shoulder, forearm, fist, hand or elbow to attack with forcible contact at the head or neck area
Lowering the head before attacking by initiating forcible contact with the crown of the helmet


According to sb nation, things that don’t factor into the decision to call a targeting foul, according to the rulebook, include:

how superhumanly tough the television viewer thinks football players should aspire to be

how much the fan in the stands enjoyed football’s previously higher levels of violence

the TV commentator's worries that this is all becoming flag football

the coach's conclusion that avoiding a targeting hit would require a player to approach a play awkwardly

or the reader's assumption that the writer of this article never Played The Game

lol

 

[Cdywolfe]

Posted this in another thread but I'll repost here as many of our members clearly need remediation on the rule book...

As someone else mentioned, there are 2 different rules 9-1-3 and 9-1-4.

Targeting and Making Forcible Contact With the Crown of the Helmet ARTICLE 3. No player shall target and make forcible contact against an opponent with the crown (top) of his helmet. When in question, it is a foul. (Rule 9-6) (A.R. 9-1-3-I)

http://www.americanfootball.ru/Sport/Rule/2015_football_rules.pdf

The player only has to be defenseless in regards to 9-1-4.

So whether or not it changes the result or not we'll never know but it doesn't change that we should've had the ball 1st and 10 around the UT 40 and #12 should've been watching the rest of the game from the locker room. Then they compounded their mistake with the garbage unsportsman like call the next time around.

 

[apevol]

If you're running with the ball, then you're not considered a defenseless player, hence the no call. Sucks but seriously proud of this team they've played with so much heart the entire year. This loss has been the easiest for me to accept since I can remember

One more time...you don't have to be a defenseless player. You cannot hit another football player with the crown of your helmet. Berry got smacked right in the facemask.

 

[UT_Tix79]

One more time...you don't have to be a defenseless player. You cannot hit another football player with the crown of your helmet. Berry got smacked right in the facemask.

No one has called it targeting except our fans, not one single ref, or expert, no one. Don't you find that the least bit odd?

Maybe, just maybe, it was a legal hit, that we as fans didn't like, because of the outcome. That play happens on every hard hit kickoff return

 

[apevol]

No one has called it targeting except our fans, not one single ref, or expert, no one. Don't you find that the least bit odd?

Maybe, just maybe, it was a legal hit, that we as fans didn't like, because of the outcome. That play happens on every hard hit kickoff return

It was a helmet to
Helmet hit, dude. I've seen teams lose on softer hits.

 

[majic73]

Somehow the hit on Evan was not targeting and yet two guys blocking the guy that did it was a 15 yarder and the block bt warrior was targeting.

We left enough on the field to win the game ...but the refs were disgraceful

 

[UT_Tix79]

It was a helmet to
Helmet hit, dude. I've seen teams lose on softer hits.

It's a hit that happens on every kickoff return, ever. Berry wasn't defenseless, it was a hard hit, and it went against us. Our fans have been asking experts all night, and every single one of them have said its not a penalty.

 

[AdoptedVOL]

Anyone know how to post that play?
Everyone say it should have been targeting, but since it happened so fast, I did not notice.

Butch knows. He's sending a copy of the tape to the SEC head of officials.

 

[apevol]

It's a hit that happens on every kickoff return, ever. Berry wasn't defenseless, it was a hard hit, and it went against us. Our fans have been asking experts all night, and every single one of them have said its not a penalty.

You are in direct contradiction of the rulebook. What you're saying was correct a few years ago. Not now. It was a penalty.

 

[rocketskates]

It should have been targeting. Also, how many PIs did Willis get away with? I mean we cost ourselves that game with the fumbles but still. Either way love Tennessee and love this team. The fact that we were even in position to win after all the fumbles shows we are a good team. Shoops adjustments were good and DeBord called a good game as well. Let's get ready for Bama boys!

 

[DancingOutlaw]

It's a hit that happens on every kickoff return, ever. Berry wasn't defenseless, it was a hard hit, and it went against us. Our fans have been asking experts all night, and every single one of them have said its not a penalty.

He hit him in the face mask.
With his helmet.
He knocked him out.
It was not a hit that happpens every kickoff.
Refs tossed a Miami player for putting his shoulder into another players shoulder because it looked "bad".
It's an inconsistently applied and understood rule.

 

[apevol]

He hit him in the face mask.
With his helmet.
He knocked him out.
It was not a hit that happpens every kickoff.
Refs tossed a Miami player for putting his shoulder into another players shoulder because it looked "bad".
It's an inconsistently applied and understood rule.

It was an incredibly obvious call. I can't believe there are vol fans that are defending it.

 

[UT_Tix79]

He hit him in the face mask.
With his helmet.
He knocked him out.
It was not a hit that happpens every kickoff.
Refs tossed a Miami player for putting his shoulder into another players shoulder because it looked "bad".
It's an inconsistently applied and understood rule.

He was running directly at Berry, aimed at his chest, Berry saw him and lowered his head to take the hit. Berry was fine after that hit, he got knocked out on the scrum for the ball when the A&M player dove in trying to recover it. That will never, and has never, been called.

You're grasping for straws, it's not a penalty, the only people calling it one are our fans, think about that. There were millions of people watching that game, and there's like 100 fans calling it targeting, that's it...

 

[Cdywolfe]

It's a hit that happens on every kickoff return, ever. Berry wasn't defenseless, it was a hard hit, and it went against us. Our fans have been asking experts all night, and every single one of them have said its not a penalty.

Defenseless player rule applies to forcible contact above shoulders (9-4-1), not crown violations(9-3-1). Not really sure of an easier way to say it.

 

[apevol]

He was running directly at Berry, aimed at his chest, Berry saw him and lowered his head to take the hit. Berry was fine after that hit, he got knocked out on the scrum for the ball when the A&M player dove in trying to recover it. That will never, and has never, been called.

You're grasping for straws, it's not a penalty, the only people calling it one are our fans, think about that. There were millions of people watching that game, and there's like 100 fans calling it targeting, that's it...

He missed half the game. Your eyes are defective.

 

[Cdywolfe]

If what he is saying is true (which it's not but let's pretend) then they should do away with 9-3-1, as it would literally serve no purpose. As it stands though, there's a different criteria for crown violation and the player being defenseless isn't a part it.

 

[UT_Tix79]

If what he is saying is true (which it's not but let's pretend) then they should do away with 9-3-1, as it would literally serve no purpose. As it stands though, there's a different criteria for crown violation and the player being defenseless isn't a part it.

Go through the history of kickoff returns, heck, limit them to our big hits this year, and you'll see us hit people like that every game, and it's never been called and will never be called.

I was saying after the initial hit, Berry was fine, maybe had the breath knocked out, but that was it. He took a bigger helmet to helmet hit while he was trying to recover the fumble and the A&M guy dove in for the ball. That's when you see Berry get knocked out. The initial hit was a good hard hit, that had that been us delivering it would have led to a standing ovation

 

[apevol]

Go through the history of kickoff returns, heck, limit them to our big hits this year, and you'll see us hit people like that every game, and it's never been called and will never be called.

I was saying after the initial hit, Berry was fine, maybe had the breath knocked out, but that was it. He took a bigger helmet to helmet hit while he was trying to recover the fumble and the A&M guy dove in for the ball. That's when you see Berry get knocked out. The initial hit was a good hard hit, that had that been us delivering it would have led to a standing ovation

Show me all these hits.

 

[DancingOutlaw]

He was running directly at Berry, aimed at his chest, Berry saw him and lowered his head to take the hit. Berry was fine after that hit, he got knocked out on the scrum for the ball when the A&M player dove in trying to recover it. That will never, and has never, been called.

You're grasping for straws, it's not a penalty, the only people calling it one are our fans, think about that. There were millions of people watching that game, and there's like 100 fans calling it targeting, that's it...

You need to go back and watch the replay. He was out on the hit, why do you think he fumbled? He made no attempt to recover it. I am not tracking how many people thought it was or wasn't targeting because I don't care.

 

[Cdywolfe]

Show me all these hits.

Exactly... Show me where somebody gets drilled in the head with the crown of a defender's helmet "all the time".

While we're at can you show me all the experts saying it was a clean hit cause I can't seem to find any.

 

[Cdywolfe]

You need to go back and watch the replay. He was out on the hit, why do you think he fumbled? He made no attempt to recover it. I am not tracking how many people thought it was or wasn't targeting because I don't care.

Exactly... The moment he was drilled in head he dropped the ball and went straight to the ground.

 

[UT_Tix79]

Exactly... The moment he was drilled in head he dropped the ball and went straight to the ground.

You need to rewatch it, you can see him crawling and reaching for the ball, and then the A&M player slides in and Berry was out.

 

[Cdywolfe]

You need to rewatch it, you can see him crawling and reaching for the ball, and then the A&M player slides in and Berry was out.

I've watched it enough.