ESPN+: Lessons for six former CFB powers (Tennessee)

[malibuvol]

What happens when incompetent football boosters run a program. Thankfully our most meddling and incompetent now has his hands full with making ignorant football decisions for the pro team he owns.

He's really good at the pro level as well...

 

[DaddyChad]

Fulmer was a big part of the problem. The incompetence that followed was bad... but he deserved to be fired. He simply refused to change with the game. He was stubborn and arrogant and never knew how to surround himself with the right people or hold those around him accountable.

I'm convinced that his purpose in being AD was to hire someone who believed in HIS brand of football. He wanted to use Pruitt to prove he was wrongfully fired and that his way still worked. Fulmer had his time. It passed and neither the AD nor Fulmer accepted it until it got really ugly.

Compare to Saban. Amazingly, Saban won multiple national championships with defense, a great run game, and a game manager QB. Then he saw the game shifting... and shifted with it. It is too bad that Fulmer didn't have that in him.

Idk that I agree with your first part at least not fully. I think Fulmer would’ve continued to be successful if Cut had stayed. Fulmer had a comfort zone and went outside of it once in hiring Clawson and it burned him.

Second paragraph, honestly Fulmer still wasn’t the issue. The fact that we had leadership that would even consider him for the job was the issue. Not one single major program in the country would’ve had his name on their long list of AD candidates much less at the top of the list.

 

[sjt18]

Idk that I agree with your first part at least not fully. I think Fulmer would’ve continued to be successful if Cut had stayed. Fulmer had a comfort zone and went outside of it once in hiring Clawson and it burned him.

Second paragraph, honestly Fulmer still wasn’t the issue. The fact that we had leadership that would even consider him for the job was the issue. Not one single major program in the country would’ve had his name on their long list of AD candidates much less at the top of the list.

Fulmer "lucked" into a good staff. His inability to replace Cut or hold his staff accountable is the primary cause for his downfall.

Clawson has gone on to succeed at Wake Forest... You got to let that sink in a while. People are studying his offense as a model. I never thought Clawson was the problem there and still don't. Fulmer hired him to change things then panicked when he started changing things and apparently fought him until he fired him.

 

[Rocky Top T]

Got no time for Fulmer!

 

[Maybe next year]

Tennessee made a huge mistake(In My Opinion) in firing Phil Fulmer in 2008. It started a whole bunch of chaos that has only stopped with the hiring of Danny White as AD and Josh Heupel as head football coach.

I think if Fulmer wasnt fired, Clawson would probably be our coach now and we would be with Alabama on wins. Look back at all the big name recruites we lost when Fulmer was fired.
I'm just a rambling old man remembering the glory days. I really think with Danny White in charge it will be glory days once again.

 

[Defcon5]

I think, as long as we keep Danny White and Josh Heupel, we are going to be alright. I feel like we have it truly aligned in the right direction for the first time in 20 years.

Heupel needs a raise. Not sure $4m going to keep him. $8m sounds about right.

 

[zjcvols]

It's not even close to be honest. Fulmer never had Johnnys nose when it came to sensing talent among assistants. .

It wasn’t a sense. It’s because Phil knew how he got the job and didn’t want what happened to Majors happen to him so he hired meh assistant coaches or coaches who didn’t plan on being HC’s.

 

[zjcvols]

Fulmer "lucked" into a good staff. His inability to replace Cut or hold his staff accountable is the primary cause for his downfall.

Clawson has gone on to succeed at Wake Forest... You got to let that sink in a while. People are studying his offense as a model. I never thought Clawson was the problem there and still don't. Fulmer hired him to change things then panicked when he started changing things and apparently fought him until he fired him.

Yeah because Phil was scared Clawsen would eventually replace him

 

[Volmac2022]

I think it wasn't just Hamilton or Fulmer. College football was changing late into his coaching career and he should no signs of changing. Now that could of been bc of him or him being limited on funds, either way it was going down hill. The leadership at the school wasn't interested in winning football games either. So until recently we were never gonna make the good decisions to get the right people to have a great coach to assemble a great coaching staff to get us a great team. So far I believe we are heading in that direction, players want to play for Josh and thats half the battle.

 

[MemphisVol77]

If we had given Dooley a few more years he would have figured it out.

We couldn't give him a few more years. Whether the players really quit on him or not before the 2011 Kentucky game, too many assistant bailed on him before the 2012 season.
He probably was and is more capable of learning from his mistakes than Butch or Pruitt, but after playing for OT(loss) rather than go for it against Mizzu, then losing to Vandy to finish 2012 with a 5-7 record, he wouldn't have been able to positively alter his stature as HC.

 

[zjcvols]

The mistake wasn’t firing Fulmer. It wasn’t hiring Kiffin. Kiffin would have been a star here even with the immaturity. He’s still the closest we’ve ever gotten to beating Saban.

The problem was Dooley. If Hamilton gives Cut control over staff or hires Sumlin, the program would have survived. Championships? No. But it would have stabilized and been okay. And much more attractive of a job in 2012.

Dooley torched everything. And when Dave Hart couldn’t close the deal with Kirby (who was the chaos/rebuild and said no thank you) or Strong we ended up with Butch and his mediocrity.

 

[UTFanHades]

While Stability on its own wont always lead to success you have to have positive stability to maintain. Here's the thing, If Kiffin had stayed wed likely have been back in it a few years earlier. If we had given Dooley a few more years he would have figured it out. The other two, not so sure. But it's all water under the bridge. We are where we are now. I just hope we can keep this current administration together for a while. The one good thing is that with NIL it's one less thing the coach can mess up. As long as Spyre runs a tight ship we should be fine on not having scandals over Mcdonald's bags of cash.

I gotta disagree on Dooley. He had zero control over the locker room and let Bray run things. We didn’t go to a bowl game because Tyler wanted to go home for the holidays. Ezekiel Elliot didn’t respect him in his NFL job at Dallas. He was in over his head and there’s a reason why he’s not in a on-field coaching role these days. I will say he’s better than Pruitt and Butch in terms of where he left the program.

 

[UTFanHades]

Heupel needs a raise. Not sure $4m going to keep him. $8m sounds about right.

He deserves more than $4m. 9 wins (incl FL) and a new year’s bowl and make $8m the new floor.

 

[njvols]

Hamilton was the real curse....they hamstrung Fulmer financially as to what he could pay an OC once Cutcliff left....

When you’re at the top the echo chamber is at it’s worst and you get lulled into perception that making impactully bad decisions won’t impact on the field because we are adorned to always be at the top. Then once things start spiraling it’s tough to get back on course with “tweaks”. Think Auburn getting close to this realm…and possibly LSU if the Kelly experiment doesn’t work.

 

[Jeff Clark]

When you’re at the top the echo chamber is at it’s worst and you get lulled into perception that making impactully bad decisions won’t impact on the field because we are adorned to always be at the top. Then once things start spiraling it’s tough to get back on course with “tweaks”. Think Auburn getting close to this realm…and possibly LSU if the Kelly experiment doesn’t work.

I think LSU is returning to the low level they were during the Eras of Mike Archer and Curley Hallman 1989-1994.

 

[stolitonic]

Boys, I dunno for certain yet whether or not Heupel is "the guy". I will have a much better feel for that after the FL and LSU games.


I can say for certain though that I want Heupel to be "the guy". He's likeable, he "gets it" in terms of our culture and fanbase, has a great backstory, and runs a system that is fun to watch. So far he has done absolutely nothing that makes me question my sanity for being a Vol fan. Last few regimes those thoughts were weekly.

Where we are now compared to just 18 months ago is mind boggling.

 

[Jeff Clark]

Boys, I dunno for certain yet whether or not Heupel is "the guy". I will have a much better feel for that after the FL and LSU games.


I can say for certain though that I want Heupel to be "the guy". He's likeable, he "gets it" in terms of our culture and fanbase, has a great backstory, and runs a system that is fun to watch. So far he has done absolutely nothing that makes me question my sanity for being a Vol fan. Last few regimes those thoughts were weekly.

Where we are now compared to just 18 months ago is mind boggling.

I have a whole lot more confidence in Coach Heupel than i did at any point with Butch Jones or Cornbread Pruitt.

 

[stolitonic]

I have a whole lot more confidence in Coach Heupel than i did at any point with Butch Jones or Cornbread Pruitt.

Yup. Anytime Pruitt got near a mic I always got this sinking feeling in my stomach. I just knew something bad or embarrassing was about to happen.

 

[JoAllan]

The mistake wasn’t firing Fulmer. It wasn’t hiring Kiffin. Kiffin would have been a star here even with the immaturity. He’s still the closest we’ve ever gotten to beating Saban.

The problem was Dooley. If Hamilton gives Cut control over staff or hires Sumlin, the program would have survived. Championships? No. But it would have stabilized and been okay. And much more attractive of a job in 2012.

Dooley torched everything. And when Dave Hart couldn’t close the deal with Kirby (who was the chaos/rebuild and said no thank you) or Strong we ended up with Butch and his mediocrity.

You realize Kiffin is in his 11th season as a HC…….and only has 3 which have been better than 8 wins……right?

Why do you think he would have been a star at Tennessee?

Sure maybe he would have been……however it’s a good probability he very easily could have flamed out…….he had very little experience, was young, dumb, fired with cause, left Tennessee after 1 season, fired at USC after 4………not sure anyone could say he would have definitely been a star (at that time).

 

[Remy]

There are reasons to change and "stability" in itself does not guarantee success. However, so far so good with White and Heupel. They seem to be people who respect the culture and fit it pretty well. They don't seem to be looking at UT as a stepping stone. Both appear to be good leaders and people with integrity.

Heupel still has to get it done on the field but we appear to be closer than we've been since the NC and just after.

A totally fair ;post and about where my head is as well. I like what I see now and think White and Heupel MAY be the guys we need long term. However I caution everyone Butch Jones managed to go 9-3 twice one of those years beating Florida and Georgia but turned out to be a disaster.

 

[Jeff Clark]

A totally fair ;post and about where my head is as well. I like what I see now and think White and Heupel MAY be the guys we need long term. However I caution everyone Butch Jones managed to go 9-3 twice one of those years beating Florida and Georgia but turned out to be a disaster.

Tennessee went 9-4 in 2015(should have beaten Oklahoma along with Florida and Arkansas and been 11-1 in the regular season) and 9-4 in 2016(Should have been 11-1 in the regular season beating Texas A&M,South Carolina and Vanderbilt).

 

[nomads-11]

Again, what do you/we think why a HC is needed? Fulmer got "fired", Josh got hired. In the interim we had, (or all most) got Kiffin, Dooley, Butch, Pruitt for a circa 10 years? Why TF are we relying on a HC, EVER?? We have an OC today......who's praying for a DC, that he was close. Why? It's idiocy. Just hire the OC and DC first, with as much $$ as you can afford..,...the rest will take care of itself. I want to be in the position to challenge the oc & DC...NOT WORK WITH THEM.

 

[Jeff Clark]

Again, what do you/we think why a HC is needed? Fulmer got "fired", Josh got hired. In the interim we had, (or all most) got Kiffin, Dooley, Butch, Pruitt for a circa 10 years? Why TF are we relying on a HC, EVER?? We have an OC today......who's praying for a DC, that he was close. Why? It's idiocy. Just hire the OC and DC first, with as much $$ as you can afford..,...the rest will take care of itself. I want to be in the position to challenge the oc & DC...NOT WORK WITH THEM.

That is NOT the way it works the AD hires the Head Football Coach and HE hires the Offensive and Defensive Coordinators!

 

[DrTNT]

Tennessee made a huge mistake(In My Opinion) in firing Phil Fulmer in 2008. It started a whole bunch of chaos that has only stopped with the hiring of Danny White as AD and Josh Heupel as head football coach.

I disagree, fulmer had become extremely complacent w/ Hamilton as AD. The true beginning of the problem was the retirement of Doug Dickey as AD… finally corrected that with bringing in Danny White.

 

[TNHopeful505]

Heupel needs a raise. Not sure $4m going to keep him. $8m sounds about right.

He needs to win a few more games before we start that talk.