ESPN Article about the Bar Knoxville Fight

#301
#301
oklavol said:
We are all UT fans and want to defend the players, but the victim, the eyewitnesses, the owners, and the bouncers have all said the same thing. The victim bumped into a player and the player(s) gave him a beating, at which point the bouncers managed to get them outside at which point they beat an off-duty officer who tried to break it up.

I haven't read anything that contradicts that, except from a player's attorney who is trying to defend him.

We know what happened. If you want to accept that or be in denial that is another matter. :twocents:
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We also know that the cop is friends with the owners/bouncers. The facts don't add up at all. The owners would probably rather let UT take the fall than deal with an angry police force.
 
#304
#304
I got it the it was started when the guy on the grassy knoll shoved one guy which led to the fight, and then Deep-throat called in and sold out all of our guys that were in the Watergate that night...I have a feeling there will be a few fall guys that emerge here and we won't ever know what went down.
 
#306
#306
oklavol said:
We are all UT fans and want to defend the players, but the victim, the eyewitnesses, the owners, and the bouncers have all said the same thing. The victim bumped into a player and the player(s) gave him a beating, at which point the bouncers managed to get them outside at which point they beat an off-duty officer who tried to break it up.

I haven't read anything that contradicts that, except from a player's attorney who is trying to defend him.

We know what happened. If you want to accept that or be in denial that is another matter. :twocents:
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Our eyewitness consists of one girl from Pellisippi CC. The others all work for the bar and aren't going to say anything that hurts their business prospects i.e. nothings ever happened like that here, the football players started it and they're now banned from admittance so come on out.

Seems a little odd to me that both owners (husband & wife) just happened to be out in the bar area that night as well. First off, few owners are around their establishment all the time and secondly the owners of bars that I know (both Knoxville & Bowling Green) when they are at the bar, they're not behind the bar or out with the people, they're in the back.

I admit there's consistency that 6-7 players were there that night and involved (oh wait 17 players were now there) but what about the other side now? We now know that his friends got the players off him and got him up. Did they just walk into the middle of it and pick him up? It would seem as though they had to do some pushing and punching as well.
 
#307
#307
I need to get everything straight! I was in the bar and I was drinking. There was a short fat guy in there he was not drinking and a skinny guy who looked like barney fife not drinking in plain cloths. I saw this big guy hit this short fat guy who started beating 19 to 29 football players. All the football players were drinking and had bar stools in their hands swinging them until bar owner took his bar stools back. The fat guy was knocking players out the front door and accidently knocked the skinny guy out the front door. Besides the players and I no one else was drinking. No bouncers or other patons were involved except the fat guy and this skinny guy in plains cloths.
P.S.
I almost did not make it to my house in Memphis before my wife woke up at 5:30. She would have made me look a lots worse than that fat guy!!!!:superman::superman::superman:
 
#310
#310
mrredskin said:
7-8 football players hovered around the guy doesn't mean that all of them were hitting/kicking. and if it only lasted for a few seconds, then why WOULD the injuries be much worse??
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Think about it, what would do more damage in a "few seconds"?? One person kicking you, or 7-8??? It would only take a few seconds for 7-8 people to do some serious damage as he would be getting blows delivered from every which direction. Sounds to me like dude got his arse kicked by 1 player and is trying to protect his pride by saying he got jumped.
 
#311
#311
oklavol said:
We are all UT fans and want to defend the players, but the victim, the eyewitnesses, the owners, and the bouncers have all said the same thing. The victim bumped into a player and the player(s) gave him a beating, at which point the bouncers managed to get them outside at which point they beat an off-duty officer who tried to break it up.

I haven't read anything that contradicts that, except from a player's attorney who is trying to defend him.

We know what happened. If you want to accept that or be in denial that is another matter. :twocents:
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The bar owner and the only eyewitness that I've seen a quote from both say they didn't see how it started, just saw a fight already in progress. But they both assume out loud that the football players started it. Russell is the only one that's said directly and publicly that a football player started it and the first one he named was very possibly not at the bar at all. Oddly enough, apparently the bar owner called in to a radio show and named the same, apparently-incorrect guy a day or two later. But that's enough 'proof' for you, it seems.

All of the football players say that Russell started it. They were apparently convincing enough in their stories told directly (and independently) to DD that Hughes isn't even suspended at this point, whereas Miles has already been dismissed (so you can't claim DD is just protecting starters or is afraid to make a decision). The lawyer for Hughes says that he has eyewitnesses who say that Russell started it.

Hughes had a 'bloody eye' from a 5'8" 215 pudgy guy as well, even though he claims Hughes just started hitting him first, out of nowhere, at which point Russell presumably danced in and punched him very successfully in the face.

From all of that, you deduce that it's obvious that the football players started it, that Russell was just minding his own business, and that nothing whatever contradicts that premise. I think your reasoning is very poor in this case unless you are directly aware of many facts that I have not seen reported anywhere.

We don't know what happened and it is important to know who started it, because he bears a lot of responsibility for the entire incident.
 
#312
#312
winchestervol63 said:
The bar owner and the only eyewitness that I've seen a quote from both say they didn't see how it started, just saw a fight already in progress. But they both assume out loud that the football players started it. Russell is the only one that's said directly and publicly that a football player started it and the first one he named was very possibly not at the bar at all. Oddly enough, apparently the bar owner called in to a radio show and named the same, apparently-incorrect guy a day or two later. But that's enough 'proof' for you, it seems.

All of the football players say that Russell started it. They were apparently convincing enough in their stories told directly (and independently) to DD that Hughes isn't even suspended at this point, whereas Miles has already been dismissed (so you can't claim DD is just protecting starters or is afraid to make a decision). The lawyer for Hughes says that he has eyewitnesses who say that Russell started it.

Hughes had a 'bloody eye' from a 5'8" 215 pudgy guy as well, even though he claims Hughes just started hitting him first, out of nowhere, at which point Russell presumably danced in and punched him very successfully in the face.

From all of that, you deduce that it's obvious that the football players started it, that Russell was just minding his own business, and that nothing whatever contradicts that premise. I think your reasoning is very poor in this case unless you are directly aware of many facts that I have not seen reported anywhere.

We don't know what happened and it is important to know who started it, because he bears a lot of responsibility for the entire incident.
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Excellent post.
 
#313
#313
winchestervol63 said:
The bar owner and the only eyewitness that I've seen a quote from both say they didn't see how it started, just saw a fight already in progress. But they both assume out loud that the football players started it. Russell is the only one that's said directly and publicly that a football player started it and the first one he named was very possibly not at the bar at all. Oddly enough, apparently the bar owner called in to a radio show and named the same, apparently-incorrect guy a day or two later. But that's enough 'proof' for you, it seems.

All of the football players say that Russell started it. They were apparently convincing enough in their stories told directly (and independently) to DD that Hughes isn't even suspended at this point, whereas Miles has already been dismissed (so you can't claim DD is just protecting starters or is afraid to make a decision). The lawyer for Hughes says that he has eyewitnesses who say that Russell started it.

Hughes had a 'bloody eye' from a 5'8" 215 pudgy guy as well, even though he claims Hughes just started hitting him first, out of nowhere, at which point Russell presumably danced in and punched him very successfully in the face.

From all of that, you deduce that it's obvious that the football players started it, that Russell was just minding his own business, and that nothing whatever contradicts that premise. I think your reasoning is very poor in this case unless you are directly aware of many facts that I have not seen reported anywhere.

We don't know what happened and it is important to know who started it, because he bears a lot of responsibility for the entire incident.
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Very well said.
 
#315
#315
"If not for my friends jumping in, I would be dead or brain-dead," Russell told ESPN.com. "It was obvious that they weren't going to stop."
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Bologna. If this kid thinks he was about to be killed, then hes got something else coming. This is a PR train wreck. I wish it would just end.
 
#316
#316
Dooley is a lawyer, so I trust he knows how to question to determine a chain of events. This doesn't add up... If we had a group of players beating him and he looks like that, we have a weak team. He admits to "inadvertently" bumping into him. This gets more ridiculous every day. Can't wait to hear the actual truth behind what went down.
 
#317
#317
Russell said Hughes and Moore were the only two players he could identify for sure and that Hughes started the whole thing by pushing him and then punching him in the chest after Russell inadvertently bumped into Hughes on his way back from the bathroom.

The 6-foot-4, 312-pound Hughes, who has not been questioned by police or charged with any crimes in connection with the brawl, has adamantly disputed Russell's version of the story. He told Tennessee coach Derek Dooley that the 5-8, 215-pound Russell hit him from behind after they bumped into each other earlier in the night and had words.
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Was Hughes on his freaking knees when he was punching this defenseless guy in the chest? And how the hell did Hughes get a damaged eye in this fiasco if the guy did nothing then got jumped by 5 to 7 football players? Sounds like Tubby landed a cheap shot then got the snot beat out of him because some of the other statistics don't add up.
 
#318
#318
And what the hell was this little tubster doing in the Bar anyway, hes only 20. I go there everytime im up for a game and theyve never let under 21 in when i am there.
 
#319
#319
winchestervol63 said:
The bar owner and the only eyewitness that I've seen a quote from both say they didn't see how it started, just saw a fight already in progress. But they both assume out loud that the football players started it. Russell is the only one that's said directly and publicly that a football player started it and the first one he named was very possibly not at the bar at all. Oddly enough, apparently the bar owner called in to a radio show and named the same, apparently-incorrect guy a day or two later. But that's enough 'proof' for you, it seems.

All of the football players say that Russell started it. They were apparently convincing enough in their stories told directly (and independently) to DD that Hughes isn't even suspended at this point, whereas Miles has already been dismissed (so you can't claim DD is just protecting starters or is afraid to make a decision). The lawyer for Hughes says that he has eyewitnesses who say that Russell started it.

Hughes had a 'bloody eye' from a 5'8" 215 pudgy guy as well, even though he claims Hughes just started hitting him first, out of nowhere, at which point Russell presumably danced in and punched him very successfully in the face.

From all of that, you deduce that it's obvious that the football players started it, that Russell was just minding his own business, and that nothing whatever contradicts that premise. I think your reasoning is very poor in this case unless you are directly aware of many facts that I have not seen reported anywhere.

We don't know what happened and it is important to know who started it, because he bears a lot of responsibility for the entire incident.
Click to expand...

You want to talk about logic but then you think a 5'8" 215lb man started a fight with a 6'5" 315 lb player?

Don't you think by now there would have been a witness identified who would have come forward and said the players didn't start the fight?

You have a owner, an eyewitness, and a victim who all have said the same thing. You had a guy come on this board before this article was written who said the same thing. But you discredit everyone but the players. Everyone is lying to throw the players under the bus? The team most everyone in the state supports? That's logical to you?

Why would the owners want to throw the players under the bus? They gave them VIP status. If anything they had an interest in protecting the players. They wanted them there, that's why they gave them VIP status.

For the sake of arguement, say the other guy started the fight. The guy was on the ground and they were picking his head up to punch him. He wasn't fighting back. The officer was lying on the ground unconscious being kicking. A fight in self defense is one thing, but kicking an unconscious man and beating a man on the ground is another. It hurts their credibility.

Maybe he bumped him and in confusion the player defended himself, but this guy wasn't just punched in self defense he was beaten badly. This with bouncers pushing them out the door to stop it. The cop was on the ground unconscious. What's the defense for that? I was so terrified of this man on the ground I had to continue beating him until the bouncers pulled me off? That's logical?
 
#320
#320
utvolpj said:
something just doesn't add up in that story

these are huge guys who did relatively little damage
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It doesn't add up because more than likely they were drunk! No one remembers what actually happened, so they are telling what they THINK happened!! You can tell a story to 10 sober people, have them tell a friend and then it becomes a story of it's own. Let alone 10 that have been drinking!!! :banghead2:
 
#321
#321
oklavol said:
You want to talk about logic but then you think a 5'8" 215lb man started a fight with a 6'5" 315 lb player?

Don't you think by now there would have been a witness identified who would have come forward and said the players didn't start the fight?

You have a owner, an eyewitness, and a victim who all have said the same thing. You had a guy come on this board before this article was written who said the same thing. But you discredit everyone but the players. Everyone is lying to throw the players under the bus? The team most everyone in the state supports? That's logical to you?

Why would the owners want to throw the players under the bus? They gave them VIP status. If anything they had an interest in protecting the players. They wanted them there, that's why they gave them VIP status.

For the sake of arguement, say the other guy started the fight. The guy was on the ground and they were picking his head up to punch him. He wasn't fighting back. The officer was lying on the ground unconscious being kicking. A fight in self defense is one thing, but kicking an unconscious man and beating a man on the ground is another. It hurts their credibility.

Maybe he bumped him and in confusion the player defended himself, but this guy wasn't just punched in self defense he was beaten badly. This with bouncers pushing them out the door to stop it. The cop was on the ground unconscious. What's the defense for that? I was so terrified of this man on the ground I had to continue beating him until the bouncers pulled me off? That's logical?
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In the past month, I've seen a 50+ year old, 180 lb guy initiate a fight with a 35 y/o 220 lb very well-built Marine who hadn't said a cross word to a soul beforehand. So, whether it's logical or not for a person who's physically inferior to start a fight, I know with absolute certainty that it can happen.

You believe the Russell's story completely, as evidenced by you stating above how the fight proceeded. Not 'according to him' or 'possibly' - you state it as a fact. You also say what happened to the policeman whereas I nor KPD know.

I don't believe any of the stories completely.
 
#322
#322
the amount of denial and spin by some fellow vol fans is amazing. My favorite though is a 5'8 fat kid picking a fight w/ a football player.
 
#323
#323
Gator H8R said:
And what the hell was this little tubster doing in the Bar anyway, hes only 20. I go there everytime im up for a game and theyve never let under 21 in when i am there.
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Its an 18 and up bar, and always has been.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#324
#324
Not one person has admitted to seeing the cop get hit to end up on the ground. Both owners and bouncers have said when they came outside he was already down. The original testimony was SEVERAL PEOPLE (FOOTBALL PLAYERS at that) were seen kicking him while on the ground. Now the owner's story is ONE PERSON was seen making what looked like a kicking motion and he COULDN'T tell who it was, only that it was a FOOTBALL PLAYER. Here's where this story doesn't add up.

Anyone can tell the difference between Marlon Walls and Matt Milton or John Brown and Denarius Moore. So for him to say it was a football player but not know which one why not be logical and narrow it down by size to begin with. If they were relatively skinny we can reasonably throw out Brown, Hughes, King and Nelson (if he was even there) and vice versa, same thing with height.

Even if you can't get to the point of narrowing down based on size it shouldn't be necessary because the owner's wife is on record saying that her husband and the football players are on a first name basis with each other, hence they get VIP. If you're on a first name basis and you know that "17" football players were present at the bar that night and that this one doing the kicking was indeed a football player then he should know who in the hell it was. If Issacs is the prominent lawyer he's been portrayed as and this does indeed go to court then I can really see these "witnesses" stories getting eaten up, because the dots just don't seem to connect.

What about the male owner saying the players were picking up bar stools to swing and he got SOME of them out of their hands. That implies he couldn't get them all away which would lead me to believe some bar stools were swung at the victim. He looks awful good considering he was possibly hit by a barstool being swung by a D-1 football player. And in these kinds of fights if you get grabbed from behind you're swinging regardless of who it is. So the bar owner is saying he was able to get the stool away from a football player (first thing hard to believe considering strength of both parties) and he was able to do so without the player adversely reacting?

So many "simple" things for cops, lawyers, courts, etc. to think about when hearing the accounts of these "witnesses" that should automatically beg for more questions. Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
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#325
#325
had a few drinks and felt he was superman. This crap is about guys like Russell having alcohol courage. If he was swamped by several players he would not be walking around getting his pub. This is all about bravado when you get that alcohol rush that you can whip some ass.
 
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