ESPN Article about the Bar Knoxville Fight

#276
#276
Professor Nono said:
Uh - has anybody noticed that there is one consistent theme - 7 huge guys beating one 5'8" fat guy on the ground? Let's assume that the fat guy started it and threw the first punch. If we assume that, I think ALL of us would agree that one punch from Hughes or Nelson or whatever football player is the most that is justified (that should have ended it don't you think?). Anything after that is criminal and thugish.
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If 7-8 football players were beating this guy, then his injuries would be much worse.
 
#277
#277
davethevol said:
If 7-8 football players were beating this guy, then his injuries would be much worse.
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7-8 football players hovered around the guy doesn't mean that all of them were hitting/kicking. and if it only lasted for a few seconds, then why WOULD the injuries be much worse??
 
#278
#278
mrredskin said:
7-8 football players hovered around the guy doesn't mean that all of them were hitting/kicking. and if it only lasted for a few seconds, then why WOULD the injuries be much worse??
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See, there's a huge difference in guys simply being hovering him and getting a beatdown by that many guys. Why would the injuries be much worse? I take it you've never been in a fight.
 
#279
#279
Davethevol - Ok - I guess under your logic, if the kid was dead, then the ass-kicking happened. The reality is that 1) clearly the guy took a beatin' from somebody (unless he just made up that stuff about nine stitches, broken nose, black eyes etc...); 2) nobody is disputing that multiple football players did it 3) you would have fit in great on the OJ Simpson jury.
 
#280
#280
Professor Nono said:
Davethevol - Ok - I guess under your logic, if the kid was dead, then the ass-kicking happened. The reality is that 1) clearly the guy took a beatin' from somebody (unless he just made up that stuff about nine stitches, broken nose, black eyes etc...); 2) nobody is disputing that multiple football players did it 3) you would have fit in great on the OJ Simpson jury.
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The injuries he has would indicate he was only hit a few times.
 
#281
#281
Russell said. "Finally, my friends were able to help get them off me, and the bouncers started dragging them outside."

sounds about right,figured his backup would jump in when he started flapping his gums.
 
#282
#282
Professor Nono said:
Uh - has anybody noticed that there is one consistent theme - 7 huge guys beating one 5'8" fat guy on the ground? Let's assume that the fat guy started it and threw the first punch. If we assume that, I think ALL of us would agree that one punch from Hughes or Nelson or whatever football player is the most that is justified (that should have ended it don't you think?). Anything after that is criminal and thugish.
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if it happened like you are describing then there's no possible way it ends with one punch. Sorry that may work in your bubble but not the way a fight happens in the real world
 
#283
#283
I did notice one thing out of the ESPN article that was interesting. CDD apparently suspended King for a fight related incident. Some have tried to say he was suspended for curfew violation.
 
#285
#285
davethevol said:
The injuries he has would indicate he was only hit a few times.
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That's a stupid assumption. You get hit, you go down, maybe get caught in the face a time or two, and then you start protecting your face while on the ground. Most of the kicks would be body shots which would not be evident in the pictures but seem to fit his claims. I know, it's happened to me.

I fully believe that his story is very plausible. I'm not saying it's definitively true, but to blow it off is very homerish and blind.
 
#286
#286
If I had try this case in front of a jury as a prosecutor, my closing argument would be as follows: Stand up, point at the victim, then point at the defendant(s), look at the jury and raise my eyebrows, then wordlessly sit down.
 
#287
#287
Baulder said:
You couldn't see well enough to ID him but you could tell it was a football player? Was he wearing his pads at the time?
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I agree with this (good point). It will be hard for anyone to prove a true story.
The incident is a shame, but in the end it was a brawl with a lot of different stories.
 
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#288
#288
Does anyone think maybe one of Russells friends threw a punch. Supposedly they saved him right?
 
#289
#289
Professor Nono said:
If I had try this case in front of a jury as a prosecutor, my closing argument would be as follows: Stand up, point at the victim, then point at the defendant(s), look at the jury and raise my eyebrows, then wordlessly sit down.
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great plan to lose the case. If I'm ever in court against you I will save a bundle on attorney's fees and rep myself
 
#291
#291
Here's a question regarding the beaten cop and I ask this because I really don't have answer. So, he jumped into the melee outside and tries to break up whatever fight was still going on. He's off duty and in plain clothes at 2:00am. If he just states "I'm a cop!" without flashing a badge is he still a cop? I know he's still a cop, but is he seen as one in the law's eyes if he doesn't somehow prove it first before getting involved?
 
#293
#293
DenverVol01 said:
Here's a question regarding the beaten cop and I ask this because I really don't have answer. So, he jumped into the melee outside and tries to break up whatever fight was still going on. He's off duty and in plain clothes at 2:00am. If he just states "I'm a cop!" without flashing a badge is he still a cop? I know he's still a cop, but is he seen as one in the law's eyes if he doesn't somehow prove it first before getting involved?
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the truth is you have 7-17 (???) players and several other patrons who have just been pepper sprayed ... some or all have been drinking .. I don't know if anybody would have listened, even if he flashed a badge ....

that wheelchair ramp of an entrance just makes it even more complicated


my favorite part. . :crazy: :ermm:
Morton said after Capouellez was kicked that several players started to run, but others came back toward the bar with their shirts off and wanting to fight some more.
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#294
#294
Weezy said:
That's a stupid assumption. You get hit, you go down, maybe get caught in the face a time or two, and then you start protecting your face while on the ground.
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Actually, it's not. The "victim" claims they were holding his head up so they could continue punching him. You honestly don't see the fault in that logic?
 
#295
#295
Gary Russell is as much a good ole boy as Marshall Mathers


Jake Tate said:
Yea no doubt, I get the feeling that these bar owners are not the Vol fans that they claim to be. they keep coming out with stuff, like, "I had to take a few stools away from players," and "I saw 9 or 10 players stomping on the cop" turns into, "I saw a kicking motion, and when I got close enough, realized that it was the off-duty cop getting kicked". Seems like if you are close enough to see a kicking motion in the middle of a large crowd from one person, you could also see who that person was.

I've read numerous accounts and talked to people who allegedly were there or know somebody who was there, and I think a lot is going unsaid, or mixed up.

It's like ESPN qouting that Paige person who was in the bar, She said, " there's no way that other guy started it because the player was so big." Why does that determine what she witnessed?

I would say that the real situation is somewhere in the middle of all of the stories.

Something like, this guy and his friends were good ol' boys who were partying and shooting pool, and this guy was the "Billy Badarse" of the group. Both groups probably exchanged words and dude decided that he was gonna start the exchange by doing the shoulder bump into Hughes as he walked by. Well, Hughes probably said something along the lines of, "Watch where you are going (female dog) and dude through a punch. Then the Hughes destroyed him, his friends came forward and the football team did too and a "brawl" insued.

When the bouncers were able to push the fight out the front door, the off-duty cop jumped in to break it up and was probably mistaken for one of the good ol' boys, maybe grabbing Hughes or somebody and another player (nelson) punched him to get him off of the player, not knowing he was trying to end the confrontation. Then he got stomped just like any other person who ended up on the ground.

When there is a lot of people fighting at once, shat gets crazy quick. Anybody you dont know gets considered as an enemy and especially if they are hanging onto one of your buddies.

Im not trying to justify the players, they should be at home, in bed, preparing for summer work-outs at 6am. but they werent. And I would say that nobody involved is completely innocent. I just hope this all works out, for our team's sake. We are already lacking players.

Sorry for the long post, just havent commented on this situation at all.
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#296
#296
DenverVol01 said:
Here's a question regarding the beaten cop and I ask this because I really don't have answer. So, he jumped into the melee outside and tries to break up whatever fight was still going on. He's off duty and in plain clothes at 2:00am. If he just states "I'm a cop!" without flashing a badge is he still a cop? I know he's still a cop, but is he seen as one in the law's eyes if he doesn't somehow prove it first before getting involved?
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I know with MPs their authority ends as soon as alcohol touches their lips.

I'd imagine it would (if not it should) be the same with civilian police forces.
 
#297
#297
Hi guys, I come on and read everyday, but I don't always log in. I thank all of you for posting the news on here, cause I can read it without looking every were for it. I don't normally write comments, cause I am the worst at spelling and such. Your welcome for not having to read it. I just wanted to say that I had a problem with my little girls old boyfriends father. The man was picking his son up from school, we live right next to the school so my daughter walks home and she was telling me some of the names the kid and his father was calling her. Well long story short, one day it was raining and I went to pick her up and heard some of it, and I snapped and went after him. He was about 5ft10. 220? guess, and I am 5ft 9. 225. We both hit each other and he ended up on his rear up against the tire of the truck, when he went to get up, I put my knee in his chest and hit him 6/7 times. This guy looked a lot worse then the guy in the picture did. I am no football player, and I sure am not 6/7 of them holding him down and pounding on him. This guy had a black eye, one nasty cut over the other eye, and his lips did not fair well either. I am ashamed of this, it should not have went down, but as a father I guess I just lost it. That not being and excuse. Point is, I just don't see the damage of 7/8 big healthy football players holding you down and pounding on you on this guy. Whatever went down, should not have, but this story just gets weirder by the minute. Well anyway sorry for the long post, I will not do it again anytime soon. Thanks for your time.
 
#298
#298
1) Russell and the bar owner or bouncer originally say Nelson threw the first punch and he's named in the report.

2) Russell now says Hughes pushed and punched him first so he admittedly threw a punch quickly w/o thinking in order to defend himself (the punch was while facing Hughes) then Moore jumps in on it.

3) Hughes, King and players claim Hughes was hit in the back of the head and King admits he threw the first punch at Russell defending Hughes.

I know everyone's going to have their side of the story but it's usually clear what went down b/c both sides are consistent and the discrepancy arises between what side initiated it. There's no consistency in this story whatsoever. It baffles me that someone can claim three different people hit him (Nelson, Hughes, Moore) and we have someone admitting to hitting him and its none of the three he's saying. :no:
 
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#299
#299
bowlinggreenvol said:
1) Russell and the bar owner or bouncer originally say Nelson threw the first punch and he's named in the report.

2) Russell now says Hughes pushed and punched him first so he admittedly threw a punch quickly w/o thinking in order to defend himself (the punch was while facing Hughes) then Moore jumps in on it.

3) Hughes, King and players claim Hughes was hit in the back of the head and Kind admits he threw the first punch at Russell defending Hughes.

I know everyone's going to have their side of the story but it's usually clear what went down b/c both sides are consistent and the discrepancy arises between what side initiated it. There's no consistency in this story whatsoever. It baffles me that someone can claim three different people hit him (Nelson, Hughes, Moore) and we have someone admitting to hitting him and its none of the three he's saying. :no:
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I can understand mistaking Nelson (6'3 295) and Hughes (6'4 315)... but mistaking them with Moore (6'1 195) is baffling.
 
#300
#300
We are all UT fans and want to defend the players, but the victim, the eyewitnesses, the owners, and the bouncers have all said the same thing. The victim bumped into a player and the player(s) gave him a beating, at which point the bouncers managed to get them outside at which point they beat an off-duty officer who tried to break it up.

I haven't read anything that contradicts that, except from a player's attorney who is trying to defend him.

We know what happened. If you want to accept that or be in denial that is another matter. :twocents:
 
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