Edward Snowden: American Hero

[BeecherVol]

So anything that we do not know someone did, we just assume they did it? Like I don't know that you didn't kill Jonbenet Ramsey, therefore you're guilty?

Come on, Gramps. That's absurd and you know it.

So we don't know, but we do.

 

[apevol]

I can prove I didn't kill JFK, Franz Ferdinand, or Julius Caesar

 

[Vol8188]

I can prove I didn't kill JFK, Franz Ferdinand, or Julius Caesar

What about murders within the last ten years?

 

[apevol]

What about murders within the last ten years?

My position is that Dink did it.

 

[Vol8188]

So we don't know, but we do.

Unless we have some real evidence we should assume he's not guilty.

 

[Vol8188]

My position is that Dink did it.

Reasonable

 

[KentheOrange]

I'm absurd ?

You are the one who said he didn't give info to other countries.

How do you know he didn't?

You do not know if he did or he did not, therefore I posted you don't know that.

I don't know if Snowden released specific information to any country but if memory serves he did confirm NSA monitoring 193 countries including Germany and France which pissed them off.

 

[BeecherVol]

Unless we have some real evidence we should assume he's not guilty.

and thats treason. not become it damages the US government but because it puts us, his family, his friends and every one of us in danger. thats not a risk i am comfortable taking, that he "only" gave them sensitive/secret information that won't hurt us.

Only after he exposed treason on the part of government officials did this occur. And only after the U.S. turned their back on snowden.

So the above post is speculation on your part or is this something that we know?

Maybe Im reading that wrong.

 

[Vol8188]

So the above post is speculation on your part or is this something that we know?

Maybe Im reading that wrong.

Similiar to how in a discussion about God, I wouldn't constantly say "if God existed". In this case yes, it would have been more clear if I had said "if his occurred". But no I do not believe it occurred.

And if you look back many of my post do say things along the lines of "if this occurred", I've also stated on here that it's most likely part of a government misinformation campaign designed to ruin his name.

 

[BearCat204]

That's seriously how you took that? I can't prove that anyone didn't do anything. But there's reasons to believe he didn't.

There's a ton of reasons to believe he did

 

[Vol8188]

There's a ton of reasons to believe he did

Go ahead

 

[BearCat204]

Go ahead

I would assume you are a reasonably smart person, you know what the reasons or the strong indicators are that he did. We will just start with him running to these countries. You think they would just open up their arms and welcome him in if he didnt have anything to give them in return? Come on, you are smarter than that. I understand you wanting to paint him in the most positive light you possibly can because it fits your agenda in painting him as the greatest hero in American history.

 

[Vol8188]

I would assume you are a reasonably smart person, you know what the reasons or the strong indicators are that he did. We will just start with him running to these countries. You think they would just open up their arms and welcome him in if he didnt have anything to give them in return? Come on, you are smarter than that. I understand you wanting to paint him in the most positive light you possibly can because it fits your agenda in painting him as the greatest hero in American history.

So the only thing you have is pure speculation. And what do you mean by "countries"?

 

[BearCat204]

So the only thing you have is pure speculation. And what do you mean by "countries"?

What do you have? There is just as much saying that he has than he has not. Of course he isnt guilty until proven and he faces trial, but he is making that a bit difficult now isnt he. But when you say that he didnt give anything out, you are flat out wrong. We dont know that yet

Russia wasnt the only one he was trying to flee to

 

[BeecherVol]

Similiar to how in a discussion about God, I wouldn't constantly say "if God existed". In this case yes, it would have been more clear if I had said "if his occurred". But no I do not believe it occurred.

And if you look back many of my post do say things along the lines of "if this occurred", I've also stated on here that it's most likely part of a government misinformation campaign designed to ruin his name.

But we don't know this, correct?

After some back and forth I just got the impression that you felt he probably had to turn over some info for Russia to allow him to stay. I actually see that as a very possible IMO.

 

[Vol8188]

But we don't know this, correct?

After some back and forth I just got the impression that you felt he probably had to turn over some info for Russia to allow him to stay. I actually see that as a very possible IMO.

I really don't know how many times I need to explain the whole assumed innoccent thing.

 

[BearCat204]

I really don't know how many times I need to explain the whole assumed innoccent thing.

I dont know how we can impress on you anymore that most of us arent saying we know he has, but your claim that he hasnt is just not accurate. The longer he runs and the longer that he avoids facing his charges, the more guilty he looks.

 

[Vol8188]

What do you have? There is just as much saying that he has than he has not. Of course he isnt guilty until proven and he faces trial, but he is making that a bit difficult now isnt he. But when you say that he didnt give anything out, you are flat out wrong. We dont know that yet

Russia wasnt the only one he was trying to flee to

What do I have? I don't need anything, because you have 0 evidence that he's done anything. It goes back to the concept of trying to prove a negative. This isn't about trial. It's about presumed innocence when their are no facts to go off.

And as far are your "Russia wasn't the only place he was trying to flee to", it's the only place he went. So to assume he gave other countries information and they didn't take him in, is just another baseless accusation on your part.

 

[Vol8188]

I dont know how we can impress on you anymore that most of us arent saying we know he has, but your claim that he hasnt is just not accurate. The longer he runs and the longer that he avoids facing his charges, the more guilty he looks.

He's guilty of releasing information to the public that the public had a right to know about. I agree he looks very guilty in that regard. But to claim that him not facing those charges makes him appear guilty of other charges makes no sense.

 

[BearCat204]

What do I have? I don't need anything, because you have 0 evidence that he's done anything. It goes back to the concept of trying to prove a negative. This isn't about trial. It's about presumed innocence when their are no facts to go off.

And as far are your "Russia wasn't the only place he was trying to flee to", it's the only place he went. So to assume he gave other countries information and they didn't take him in, is just another baseless accusation on your part.

He has been charged with several counts........................as of right now, he has to answer for those. They're are plenty of facts that he is at least guilty of some charges that he refused to answer to.


So I guess that trip to Hong Kong never happened.

 

[BeecherVol]

I really don't know how many times I need to explain the whole assumed innoccent thing.

When you explain it the way you do you should expect nothing less.

Assuming innocence doesn't mean you know the facts.

 

[BearCat204]

He's guilty of releasing information to the public that the public had a right to know about. I agree he looks very guilty in that regard. But to claim that him not facing those charges makes him appear guilty of other charges makes no sense.

I know it doesn't make any sense to you, that's obviously clear. He has been charged with espionage, he has to answer for that.

 

[Vol8188]

He has been charged with several counts........................as of right now, he has to answer for those. They're are plenty of facts that he is at least guilty of some charges that he refused to answer to.


So I guess that trip to Hong Kong never happened.

So he's been charged with handing information to Russia? Is that what you're trying to say?

Once again, it's a baseless accusation. You have nothing to go off.

 

[Vol8188]

I know it doesn't make any sense to you, that's obviously clear. He has been charged with espionage, he has to answer for that.

1. That's not what we were discussing. Has he been charged with providing information to Russia? No he has not.

2. He doesn't need to answer to his actual charges. He's guilty of them. We all know that. I wouldn't answer to them either if I were him. Why be a martyr?

 

[BearCat204]

So he's been ? Is that what you're trying to say?

Once again, it's a baseless accusation. You have nothing to go off.

Did I say that? It's a fact that he has been charged with:
1)Theft of Government property
2)Unauthorized communication of national defense information
3)Willful communication of classified material to an unauthorized person

Which is espionage...............never said he was "charged with handing information to Russia".