Doug Matthews just reiterated...

[VolArmy74]

Not this bad!

Go back and look at the OL when Kiffin arrived, DL too. His second year was going to be a complete rebuild. I think the 2010 roster had 7 freshmen OL and one soph, one jr and one sr. Fulmer's line recruiting was in the gutter.

After looking back at the roster, the OL had 8 seniors and 3 juniors in 2008, otherwise it had a couple of freshman, mostly walkons. All were gone by 2010 and Aaron Douglas, the most heralded young lineman had mental health issues as it turned out.

 

[Volsfaninva917]

The number of other programs who did it that way (and UT as well) and had it work shows that we'd likely be in better shape. As someone else pointed out, the roster was in much better shape in 2005 than 2008. The OL and DL were disasters when Kiffin got here.

Fulmer- Great coach but it was time

Kiffin- few will admit it but it was amazing what he did with that 2009 roster with starting the Sullins twins.

Dooley- Was actually a good game day coach but he just didn't have it Sunday - Friday

Jones- horrible coach, he was probably the worst over the last 15 years from a football standpoint. The guy didn't have a damn clue.

Pruitt- Who knows but the clock has started after that Vandy disaster

 

[peaygolf]

Go back and look at the OL when Kiffin arrived, DL too. His second year was going to be a complete rebuild. I think the 2010 roster had 7 freshmen OL and one soph, one jr and one sr. Fulmer's line recruiting was in the gutter.

I'm know it was.....just they didn't play this bad.

 

[volgrad500]

Fulmer- Great coach but it was time

Kiffin- few will admit it but it was amazing what he did with that 2009 roster with starting the Sullins twins.

Dooley- Was actually a good game day coach but he just didn't have it Sunday - Friday

Jones- horrible coach, he was probably the worst over the last 15 years from a football standpoint. The guy didn't have a damn clue.

Pruitt- Who knows but the clock has started after that Vandy disaster

Agree on all points. Butch was by far the worst. It's crazy some still don't see that.

 

[VolArmy74]

Agree on all points. Butch was by far the worst. It's crazy some still don't see that.

Because Dooley was worse. In every way possible, even on game day. Dooley had the benefit of an amazing staff. But his ability to coach was very very very bad. In all aspects of coaching. Awful. I'm not saying Butch is remotely good, but he's better than Dooley in just about every way. Dooley wasn't even capable at lower levels of football. Missouri will turn awful soon enough with him there, they weren't great this year. Just way better than UT.

 

[volgrad500]

Because Dooley was worse. In every way possible, even on game day. Dooley had the benefit of an amazing staff. But his ability to coach was very very very bad. In all aspects of coaching. Awful. I'm not saying Butch is remotely good, but he's better than Dooley in just about every way. Dooley wasn't even capable at lower levels of football. Missouri will turn awful soon enough with him there, they weren't great this year. Just way better than UT.

Respectfuly disagree. I'm definitely not saying Dooley was a good head coach, but the SEC East he faced was much more difficult. Hell, Butch's complete lack of football acumen allowed future pro bowler AK to just languish on the bench. There was CONSTANT turmoil in the locker room. Dooley was a bad hire. Lyle was a program killer.

 

[hog88]

Lol, Nope.
There was no starting point for any of this except Hamilton and Curry.
Nothing Fulmer *may or may not have done, was a problem two years after he was gone.

My point was very simple, no matter if you believe Fulmer should have been fired or not, He has nothing to do with where we were 2 years after that point, much less over 10.

And please stop trying to twist words, I see you do it in every debate that you get into. Just argue the facts without trying to spin everything.

Fulmer did push for Hamilton to get the AD job.

 

[KBVol]

Jo

I agree with the statement that we waited too long with Phil. He should have been gone after 2005. Started ranked #2 in the nation and had that disaster season.

Johnny Majors was fired after a 3 loss season, 2 years beyond an SEC championship/Sugar Bowl win, with a loaded roster at that. It paid off and Tennessee won the NC a short time later. Had Johnny not won 5 in a row in 1988 he'd have been fired then.

Auburn fired Tommy Tuberville a few years after going 13-0. He had a loaded roster. It paid off with a National title a short while later.

Mike Shula won 10 games and finished 8th in the nation. Two years later Bama canned him and went all in for Saban. They did the same thing to Curry before they hired Stallings. And Ray Perkins before Curry (we got really lucky they picked Curry, Bobby Bowden wanted the job). They don't sit around waiting on the program to collapse because they have loyalty to a man. They'd fire Saban if he went 5-7 two times in the next 4 years.

Plenty of examples of firing a guy leading to better things, but not many in the modern SEC where you recover after going sub .500 years into your tenure.

Johnny Majors was given the longest rope in the history of coaching ropes when he wasn’t fired after going 5-6 in his 4th year here. Given his chaotic up and down, bad season after good season career at Tennessee, it’s amazing that he got 16 seasons here.

 

[VOL_Lyfe]

Jo


Johnny Majors was given the longest rope in the history of coaching ropes when he wasn’t fired after going 5-6 in his 4th year here. Given his chaotic up and down, bad season after good season career at Tennessee, it’s amazing that he got 16 seasons here.

It was a different world then - $$$

 

[butchna]

How do you know Pruitt asked? The way I understood it was Fulmer asked if he could help. Are you going to tell your boss no?

The way you understood it was the way you wanted to understand it.

 

[KBVol]

It was a different world then - $$$

I would agree, but nobody can try and argue he was somehow treated unfairly. Like I said, in today’s world , he’d have been gone after year 4, not season 16.

 

[VOL_Lyfe]

I would agree, but nobody can try and argue he was somehow treated unfairly. Like I said, in today’s world , he’d have been gone after year 4, not season 16.

Agreed. I would like to know what Major's highest UT salary was, just for a fun comparison to today (before all the TV $$$ distorted the picture).

 

[chargervol]

How do you know Pruitt asked? The way I understood it was Fulmer asked if he could help. Are you going to tell your boss no?

There was an interview with Pruitt not long ago where he discussed it a decent amount .
Maybe someone still has the link for you, I don't keep anything more than a week personally.

He said he leaned on PF for advice and many other things, including practice habits and help etc.Said he loved being able to do it and goes to him often.
And yes he could have said something nice but a lot shorter if he was just being polite.
He seemed enthusiastic about it actually.

 

[MassivePeytonManning99]

Respectfuly disagree. I'm definitely not saying Dooley was a good head coach, but the SEC East he faced was much more difficult. Hell, Butch's complete lack of football acumen allowed future pro bowler AK to just languish on the bench. There was CONSTANT turmoil in the locker room. Dooley was a bad hire. Lyle was a program killer.

I think that's more that he couldn't judge talent more than he didn't know football (and I'd also argue Kamara went to the absolute perfect team for his skillset in the NFL and would not have blossomed into the player he is had he not gone to the Saints).

Butch wasn't a great coach here because he was totally out of his depth -- he's done well everywhere else and I think if he goes to a G5 to resurrect them, he'll do fine. But he absolutely did have some X's and O's knowledge; some of the stuff we ran against Georgia in 2013 or Bama in 2015 specifically are things that were quite adept at taking advantage of specific weaknesses in those defenses.

He didn't fail because he didn't know football. He failed because he didn't know people and how to manage them properly and wasn't prepared for the Tennessee fanaconda that just crushes you with pressure if you don't win and give it something to munch on.

 

[happy-go_vol]

Jo


Johnny Majors was given the longest rope in the history of coaching ropes when he wasn’t fired after going 5-6 in his 4th year here. Given his chaotic up and down, bad season after good season career at Tennessee, it’s amazing that he got 16 seasons here.

It was a different time then

 

[Volsfaninva917]

Jo


Johnny Majors was given the longest rope in the history of coaching ropes when he wasn’t fired after going 5-6 in his 4th year here. Given his chaotic up and down, bad season after good season career at Tennessee, it’s amazing that he got 16 seasons here.

Majors won a national title at Pitt, there was confidence he would have similar success here. Plus there wasn't as much money at stake back then either.

 

[goooooovols]

Lol he is an idiot

Yeah but he did invent the internet so we can talk about the vols!

 

[VolArmy74]

Jo


Johnny Majors was given the longest rope in the history of coaching ropes when he wasn’t fired after going 5-6 in his 4th year here. Given his chaotic up and down, bad season after good season career at Tennessee, it’s amazing that he got 16 seasons here.

I will be very surprised if you were alive then, or if so, old enough to know anything about how football worked. Majors wasn't even remotely on a warm seat after that season. He was a native son, UT hero and national championship winning coach who'd returned home to save the program from the bottom of the barrel that the man from Alabama had placed it into. Once again, he was fired during a 3 loss season 2 years removed from the SEC title. And it worked well for Tennessee when it happened. It pushed Tennessee to one level higher. I'm not even saying he shouldn't have been on a hot seat after his 4th year. I'm just saying that no other SEC school practices loyalty quite as much as Tennessee does and they prospered for their mercenary ways while we floundered with loyalty.

 

[BigNasty]

Agreed. I would like to know what Major's highest UT salary was, just for a fun comparison to today (before all the TV $$$ distorted the picture).

Majors made $300,000 his last year. Him insisting on a raise was a big part of his downfall.

 

[Cobb-Webb 1989]

Fulmer- Great coach but it was time

Kiffin- few will admit it but it was amazing what he did with that 2009 roster with starting the Sullins twins.

It was Fulmers time to go, and if Crompton had 4 years under Kiffin...

Majors made $300,000 his last year. Him insisting on a raise was a big part of his downfall.

Maybe part of it, most of Johnny's downfall came from his gin.
Embarrassed Dickey one too many times at big time booster events. His fate was already sealed before the 92 season began.

Had pretty much nothing to do with money or his win loss record.

If we still had Dickey, he would had Fulmer on a way shorter lease then Fulmer had after Dickey retired.

Not one power 5 program every offered Fulmer a job, but we sure got drug after he was served his papers.
Besides "Lovey" who else did Fulmer ever produce that was not already on Johnny's staff?

 

[Steven5198]

I think that's more that he couldn't judge talent more than he didn't know football (and I'd also argue Kamara went to the absolute perfect team for his skillset in the NFL and would not have blossomed into the player he is had he not gone to the Saints).

Butch wasn't a great coach here because he was totally out of his depth -- he's done well everywhere else and I think if he goes to a G5 to resurrect them, he'll do fine. But he absolutely did have some X's and O's knowledge; some of the stuff we ran against Georgia in 2013 or Bama in 2015 specifically are things that were quite adept at taking advantage of specific weaknesses in those defenses.

He didn't fail because he didn't know football. He failed because he didn't know people and how to manage them properly and wasn't prepared for the Tennessee fanaconda that just crushes you with pressure if you don't win and give it something to munch on.

GREAT post. I am definitely NO Butch Jones supporter. In fact, I called him a "fraud" over two years ago on another message board and was ridiculed for it. This was about the same time when about 3 out of 4 people were ready to get DeBord out of town since everything was "his" fault. All while the offense was putting up record like numbers and was on the verge of defeating Alabama(as you mentioned) on what should've been a game winning drive with about five minutes left.

Regardless it's HILARIOUS how time goes along and you see the lack of ability to remember big moments that defined a coaches legacy and how now suddenly Dooley is fondly remembered. The guy treated anyone and everyone below him like ****. Ask anyone in the know from those days. Butch supposedly did this some too, but Doolander was on a whole other level. He thought he was Saban (Sounds familiar to the current situation a little bit, huh?) but lacked a few hundred wins and a handful of championships.

And now we hear that Dooley was a "good game day coach?" Really?! He defined the exact opposite in his first season as he oversaw two of the all time goofiest, comical endings in UT history with the LSU 14 (or however many) men on the field and the mismanaged ending to the Music City Bowl. Dooley did some things well, but it's hilarious how fan bases allow their opinions to change as time goes by. It's understandable to do that, and even healthy, but some just go WAY to far to the extreme. Perfect definition of a "fan" I guess...

 

[VolArmy74]

Respectfuly disagree. I'm definitely not saying Dooley was a good head coach, but the SEC East he faced was much more difficult. Hell, Butch's complete lack of football acumen allowed future pro bowler AK to just languish on the bench. There was CONSTANT turmoil in the locker room. Dooley was a bad hire. Lyle was a program killer.

Dooley was a complete and total disaster. He was so bad in the locker room and in any off the field capacity that he's unlikely to ever get a hc job again. Dooley was the program killer. Do you realize how much high school coaches across our recruiting area hated the man? There's a reason he couldn't get talent onto campus. Jones took over the program at an all time low. I hate even remotely having to defend him on here. But Dooley could have coached here 20 years and he was never signing a top 10 class and he was never winning 9 games. I'm not too sure about the world beating East you're talking about either. Only in his final year did it have a pulse. In Butch's first year Missouri and South Carolina both finished in the top 5. That hadn't happened in the East in a long time.

 

[VolArmy74]

GREAT post. I am definitely NO Butch Jones supporter. In fact, I called him a "fraud" over two years ago on another message board and was ridiculed for it. This was about the same time when about 3 out of 4 people were ready to get DeBord out of town since everything was "his" fault. All while the offense was putting up record like numbers and was on the verge of defeating Alabama(as you mentioned) on what should've been a game winning drive with about five minutes left.

Regardless it's HILARIOUS how time goes along and you see the lack of ability to remember big moments that defined a coaches legacy and how now suddenly Dooley is fondly remembered. The guy treated anyone and everyone below him like ****. Ask anyone in the know from those days. Butch supposedly did this some too, but Doolander was on a whole other level. He thought he was Saban (Sounds familiar to the current situation a little bit, huh?) but lacked a few hundred wins and a handful of championships.

And now we hear that Dooley was a "good game day coach?" Really?! He defined the exact opposite in his first season as he oversaw two of the all time goofiest, comical endings in UT history with the LSU 14 (or however many) men on the field and the mismanaged ending to the Music City Bowl. Dooley did some things well, but it's hilarious how fan bases allow their opinions to change as time goes by. It's understandable to do that, and even healthy, but some just go WAY to far to the extreme. Perfect definition of a "fan" I guess...

No kidding, I'm not sure why there is any revisionist history regarding Dooley and the low he drove the program to while here both on game day and with every other thing associated with being a successful program. Not being able to beat Kentucky with a WR at QB is one of the all time worst moments for this program in it's history.

 

[Devo182]

Butch won 3 bowl games in a row and b2b 9 win seasons. Dooley won 16 games and he is somehow better?? Butch wasn't the guy to get it done here, but he made good progress before imploding. Hard to judge all that tbh.

 

[Volsfaninva917]

Butch won 3 bowl games in a row and b2b 9 win seasons. Dooley won 16 games and he is somehow better?? Butch wasn't the guy to get it done here, but he made good progress before imploding. Hard to judge all that tbh.

The talent Jones had covered for a lot of his shortcomings, Jones also had the benefit of 2 legacy classes. He had enough talent he should have had Tennessee in Atlanta at least twice. Dooley was leaps and bounds better than Jones on game day he just couldn't get the talent here.