Dooley vs. History

[dont114]

Cattleman?

I'm nobody that you know.

 

[NCVol1025]

When Lou Holtz took over USCe his roster had HS kids on it and was way worse than ours. Here is his record:Lou Holtz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sweet Lou wasn't on the list, and it to two hall of fame coaches to and 10 years to get that program to one 11 win season.

 

[jcknight1]

The problem seems clear to me. IF you have to have more talent than any team you coach against to have a chance to beat them, then we have the wrong man leading the team. Doolanders keep saying we do not have enough talent to compete. They then say we can't pull the big name recruits because we don't win. See the issue here? You can't make excuses going both ways. If Dooley can not beat the big SEC schools in the recruiting battles(I am not talking about when other teams fill up and the player falls to us), then he has to out coach them with lesser talent. It's one or the other IMO or be replaced. Of course better recruits would consider the Vols if Dooley proved he could win some SEC games. He just has not shown the ability to do so. How can Dooley build an upper level SEC roster if he can't get the big time recruits until he starts winning? Are we back to the "Just give him more time and we will see BS"? He has never been a winner. Those who think he is going to wake up tomorrow and become this great SEC coach are just living a dream.

There has been a tremendous upgrade in talent since Dooley got here, so I'm not using the he has to win before he can bring in talent excuse. We aren't where we need to be yet, but I feel we are on our way. We need to develop and recruit more overall depth and we need to upgrade 3 maybe 4 starting positions on defense. This is light years ahead of where we were 3 years ago.

People seem to forget how bad of shape the program was in when Lame went west. This super coach that some feel was available and wanted to come to UT, couldn't have come in and instantly had a top tier program, nor could super coach have reloaded our talent in 1 or 2 recruiting classes.

At least, let this season play out before calling for his head. As of right now, I feel the program is moving in the right direction, so the instability created by a coaching change would be harmful.

 

[RichRollin]

Not even close. LSU was only 2 years removed from competing for the SECC when Saban took over. Not to take anything from him as a coach. It was the same when he went to bama. It only took as long as it did so that the players could learn the schemes.

They also had losing records in 8 out of 11 seasons prior to his arrival.

 

[NCVol1025]

Some folks in here obviously don't have a very good sense of the history of the Tennessee program or the Alabama program. Both schools have been down before and both schools have required time to right the ship. Look how long it took Majors to get things on track...after having won a NC at Pitt.

Nobody is happy where we're at but I'll be damned if I want to see the program continue to shoot itself in the foot...Like Skeet said...it is unlikely the guardians want to see that either.

Good post. I hope DD can be the next Majors. He won alot himself but also set up UT for some great years.

 

[jcknight1]

There are lies, damn lies, and then there are statistics. This is the perfect example of having a theory and then picking the facts that support it. Not a shining example of the scientific method.

Here's a question to answer: if Dooley had been at Alabama the last 3 years, and Saban had been at Tennessee, what would each schools respective records be?[/QUOT

I think that most coaches would look pretty good with the talent that Saban is able to recruit, and I think that most coaches would have a similar record as Dooley.

 

[ajvol01]

They also had losing records in 8 out of 11 seasons prior to his arrival.

Not due to a lack of talent in Lousiana.

Mike Archer, Curly Hallman, Gerry Dinardo can be thanked for those.

Not exactly a major "rebuilding" job when Dinardo was knocking off Spurrier every other year.

LSU had plenty of talent when Saban got there.

 

[vol4eva]

In my opinion , unless this team falls off a cliff, Dooley should get to coach his senior class. If there is still a question after next year, thats when we should start talking about a coaching change. JMO

Why should the fanbase have to suffer another year of Derek Dooley at the helm? It's actually looking worse next year.

 

[RichRollin]

Not due to a lack of talent in Lousiana.

Mike Archer, Curly Hallman, Gerry Dinardo can be thanked for those.

Not exactly a major "rebuilding" job when Dinardo was knocking off Spurrier every other year.

LSU had plenty of talent when Saban got there.

And Tennessee has plenty of talent now. Not two years ago, now. The state of the program when Dooley took over isn't why we lost to UF and UGA this year. Maybe then, but not now. And we're not finished losing. If we don't beat Bama or SC I don't see why we need to keep him. We're not in this to beat Miss St. And by now there is no excuse to not win 1 big game this year.

 

[dont114]

Not due to a lack of talent in Lousiana.

Mike Archer, Curly Hallman, Gerry Dinardo can be thanked for those.

Not exactly a major "rebuilding" job when Dinardo was knocking off Spurrier every other year.

LSU had plenty of talent when Saban got there.

I think Archer, Hallman, Dinardo or a good high school coach could have improved the UT program as much as Dooley has.

 

[ajvol01]

And Tennessee has plenty of talent now. Not two years ago, now. The state of the program when Dooley took over isn't why we lost to UF and UGA this year. Maybe then, but not now. And we're not finished losing. If we don't beat Bama or SC I don't see why we need to keep him. We're not in this to beat Miss St. And by now there is no excuse to not win 1 big game this year.

Plenty of talent? Please.

Yes we have much more talent/experience than '10/'11 Vols rosters.

We are still not up to par with the talent at Bama, Fla, UGA, USC, LSU.

Our depth is a joke compared to Bama & LSU.

 

[RichRollin]

All I kept hearing coming into the season was how loaded we were. Saw people posting the projected starting lineup, getting fired up. Now we need more time and more talent. We were gonna beat UF, blah blah blah. What next?

 

[ajvol01]

I think Archer, Hallman, Dinardo or a good high school coach could have improved the UT program as much as Dooley has.

 

[dont114]

And Tennessee has plenty of talent now. Not two years ago, now. The state of the program when Dooley took over isn't why we lost to UF and UGA this year. Maybe then, but not now. And we're not finished losing. If we don't beat Bama or SC I don't see why we need to keep him. We're not in this to beat Miss St. And by now there is no excuse to not win 1 big game this year.

I think, if he goes 6-1 for the rest of the year, he deserves a one year extension to prove it wasn't a fluke. I feel the odds of that happening are slim to none..

 

[RichRollin]

Plenty of talent? Please.

Yes we have much more talent/experience than '10/'11 Vols rosters.

We are still not up to par with the talent at Bama, Fla, UGA, USC, LSU.

Our depth is a joke compared to Bama & LSU.

Those teams have proven coaches. What have you seen from Dooley that makes you think he is on that level? At what point in his career has he proven to be on that level?

 

[Spawn]

And Tennessee has plenty of talent now. Not two years ago, now. The state of the program when Dooley took over isn't why we lost to UF and UGA this year. Maybe then, but not now. And we're not finished losing. If we don't beat Bama or SC I don't see why we need to keep him. We're not in this to beat Miss St. And by now there is no excuse to not win 1 big game this year.

amen. I can't believe people feel that it is a success if we beat MS State.

We are not losing because of a lack of talent, that was the last two years. There is no reason for DD to get another year of 500 or below football over 3 years.

 

[RichRollin]

I think, if he goes 6-1 for the rest of the year, he deserves a one year extension to prove it wasn't a fluke. I feel the odds of that happening are slim to none..

I agree. Problem is....he won't.

 

[Spawn]

And zero wins against winning teams.

Sorry, had to get that out. Can't believe being mediocre is what we want.

 

[jcknight1]

I get nauseated everytime I hear "more time". If he had an impressive coaching career before he came to UT, then I could understand giving him more time--but he doesn't. Please review his coaching experience and tell me what in his coaching background leads you to believe that he will be successful (I am not trying to be argumentative, but I have reviewed his background and I am at a loss to understand why he was hired).

If you only look at his record, then your right, there isn't anything that would lead one to believe that he will be successful. I am optimistic based on the state of the program when he arrived and the shape that it is in now.

 

[spudvol]

And zero wins against winning teams.

Sorry, had to get that out. Can't believe being mediocre is what we want.

Dooley has 2 wins against teams that finished with winning records (Fresno St 2008 and Cincinnati 2011), what Dooley doesn't have is a victory against a SEC team earlier than November 13th in any season.

 

[Spawn]

Dooley has 2 wins against teams that finished with winning records (Fresno St 2008 and Cincinnati 2011), what Dooley doesn't have is a victory against a SEC team earlier than November 13th in any season.

Sorry my friend, I don't consider those "Winning" Teams. Of course he needs to win SEC games against our Rivals in the EAST and WEST; however, I don't see him beating a winning non conference foe either.

 

[ajvol01]

All I kept hearing coming into the season was how loaded we were. Saw people posting the projected starting lineup, getting fired up. Now we need more time and more talent. We were gonna beat UF, blah blah blah. What next?

Gotta look at the big picture.

1) Roster - better, but still not near the top of the SEC. One more recruiting class and year of experience fills out roster nicely for '13.

2) Scheme - 7 coaches replaced last offseason. There is no magic formula for a defense to learn a new scheme overnight. Next year will be much improved.

3) Buzz - people are getting excited about the program again. ESPN Gameday appearance helps with recruiting. Dooley & his staff have a lot of momentum even while battling negative recruiting & hot-seat rumors.

The Georgia game was a good effort and showed significant improvement from the Florida game. 2012 Vols have been competitive with our SEC rivals - this is significant improvement from '10 & '11 results where we were blown out in 2nd half of most games.

We are 3-2 right now and have 7 games left in the regular season. I want to see what this team and staff can do.

 

[Spawn]

Gotta look at the big picture.

1) Roster - better, but still not near the top of the SEC. One more recruiting class and year of experience fills out roster nicely for '13.

2) Scheme - 7 coaches replaced last offseason. There is no magic formula for a defense to learn a new scheme overnight. Next year will be much improved.

3) Buzz - people are getting excited about the program again. ESPN Gameday appearance helps with recruiting. Dooley & his staff have a lot of momentum even while battling negative recruiting & hot-seat rumors.

The Georgia game was a good effort and showed significant improvement from the Florida game. 2012 Vols have been competitive with our SEC rivals - this is significant improvement from '10 & '11 results where we were blown out in 2nd half of most games.

We are 3-2 right now and have 7 games left in the regular season. I want to see what this team and staff can do.

If CDD gets Zero SEC wins except for Vanderbilt and Kentucky, all of that goes buzz, ESPN, and Recruits go away. For all you mention, recruiting is still bad as this point. I just don't truley believe he can do it.

But I will cheer for him every saturday as long as he is here.

 

[vols-1]

Plenty of talent? Please.

Yes we have much more talent/experience than '10/'11 Vols rosters.

We are still not up to par with the talent at Bama, Fla, UGA, USC, LSU, and KY.

Our depth is a joke compared to Bama & LSU.

FYP:loco:

 

[ajvol01]

Those teams have proven coaches. What have you seen from Dooley that makes you think he is on that level? At what point in his career has he proven to be on that level?

Character & Recruiting.

Dooley is a high character guy. Character sells parents/kids on a coach.

Consistently recruiting at a high level will bring the Vols back to competing for SEC Championships.

Holding the '12 recruiting class together while replacing multiple assistant coaches incuding your best recruiter (Sirmon) and DC (Wilcox) is a significant feat.