Dooley is outpacing Butch Jones in the wins column

[TGVol]

Hold Butch accountable in 3 more years, after he has had a chance to have his first real recruiting class with for 4 years. When this group of Fr are Srs, if we still can't seem to win anything, then it will be time to make a coaching decision. Until then, support your coach. Gripe about coaching if you want to, but if we were to fire Butch right now, no coach in his right mind would come here.

I fully agree. I hate Bajakian's offense but if CBJ wants to take his chances with him he obviously gets to make that decision. They (the staff) should not be on the hot seat in terms of getting fired for at least 3 years - should get as much time as Dooley had to see if they can turn it around. In the meantime, we should certainly be allowed to continue to ***** about poor OC play calling (or whatever else we please) - this is what passionate fans do so the coaches need to have thick enough skin to take it (and perhaps if CBJ is reading the forums it may move him to think about the direction this is heading - he strikes me as someone who actually may do this since he seems to pay a lot of attention to the fan base).

 

[VolunteerVandiver]

Our fan base can be just as embarrassing as the Bammers and the Gators.

Enjoy the negativity now, pessimists. Great things are happening in Knoxville. UT is returning to power. Enjoy the ride to the top.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

Here is a few quotes from players who had pride in this program about Dooley.
Al Wilson: “I really don’t even want to say the names of the two guys who were there between Coach Fulmer and Coach Jones. They don’t deserve to have their names mentioned with Tennessee football.

Troy Fleming: “The biggest thing about Coach Jones is he actually does his job. Unlike that guy we call Derek Doolittle, who really did very little.

Corey Larkins: I want to see some guys with some fight and defend the program. That mentality came from the guy we had before Coach Jones. Derek Dooley was a loser. He’ll always be a loser and he rubbed off on the program and created a losing attitude.”

Albert Haynesworth also had strong words about Dooley on the Midday 180 last week.

 

[Dr Dread]

If Dooley had recruited ANY O-linemen at ALL in 2012...we would be 4-1 right now.

The sad thing about this post is you're probably dead serious.:no:

 

[Vols_tothe_Wall]

And Fooley handicapped the whole program for 4 years.

Everyone needs to calm down. It's blaringly obvious our O line needs to develop still. Building a championship program is going to take time.

But I think it is also blaringly obvious that Butch has this thing going the right direction. If you don't think so, ask yourself when the last tjme we had 3 successive (albeit still prospective) recruiting classes like we do now??? People, he is the man for the job and is willing to put the work in unlike some of our previous leaders.

Here's the problem, all you radical fans out there that can't enable your brain to see big picture need to RELAX! Stop calling for peoples heads. Haven't we seen how that sets us back multiple years? Multiple times? C'mon people. Just be patient, it will make that championship even more sweeter when it comes. It just won't be overnight.

 

[BeecherVol]

So moral victory = victory?

No.

No different than any recorded in the last 2 seasons.

 

[VolsRule]

hopefully butch pulls an upset over ole miss or alabama---that would take care of the post-fla game depression.

 

[BeecherVol]

hopefully butch pulls an upset over ole miss or alabama---that would take care of the post-fla game depression.

Gonna have to wait til Nov.

 

[TGVol]

hopefully butch pulls an upset over ole miss or alabama---that would take care of the post-fla game depression.

That would only slightly lessen my depression. I wanted UF game over anything else this year (hate that streak even more than I hate Bama, and I refuse to accept that UT beating Ole Piss should ever be called an upset).

 

[tnvols72]

If Dooley had recruited ANY O-linemen at ALL in 2012...we would be 4-1 right now.

Wth is this ? ^^^^^
Jones had a Sr filled OL and couldn't go 6-6 .
4-1 ? You have lost your mind.

 

[Wylo]

If Dooley had recruited ANY O-linemen at ALL in 2012...we would be 4-1 right now.

More dumb excuses. Butch can't coach his team to a win after being spotted a nine point lead, but it's all Derek Dooley's fault? ? Ok, right, sure...

Butch struggles, you blame Dooley. Dooley sucked, you blame Kiffin. When Kiffin lost, you blame Fulmer.

It's idiotic to continue to pass the blame back.

Hold the underachieving(on the field) coach responsible. He is proving to be a bad game day coach.

Soon you'll be blaming Butch for the next coach's struggles.

 

[TDawg]

What was Dooley's ranking in recruiting????He's one of the reasons Butch has to overcome....

Just a partial list of players that are either still on the team and making an impact or in the NFL right now.

Cordarelle Patterson
Antonio Richardson
Jason Croom (he gets on the field a lot at least)
Pig Howard
Marlin Lane
AJ Johnson
Curt Maggitt
Justin Worley
Devrin Young
Daniel McCullers
Raijon Neal
Justin Hunter
JaWuan James

You can also make the case that Dooley would have been able to seal the deal on quite a few of the 2013 recruits since his staff started the recruiting on most of them. I don't think personnel was quite the reason Dooley was struggling .. it was coaching.

 

[TGVol]

Just a partial list of players that are either still on the team and making an impact or in the NFL right now.

Cordarelle Patterson
Antonio Richardson
Jason Croom (he gets on the field a lot at least)
Pig Howard
Marlin Lane
AJ Johnson
Curt Maggitt
Justin Worley
Devrin Young
Daniel McCullers
Raijon Neal
Justin Hunter
JaWuan James

You can also make the case that Dooley would have been able to seal the deal on quite a few of the 2013 recruits since his staff started the recruiting on most of them. I don't think personnel was quite the reason Dooley was struggling .. it was coaching.

I agree with you but if you look at that list it's mostly offense. Dooley was a very good offensive recruiter/coach and built one of the best offenses we had at UT during his 3 years. The problem was that he completely outsourced defense and that did not work out (to put it mildly). The breaking point was the Kentucky game - after that loss Wilcox got spooked thinking Dooley's days were numbered and left - if he stayed one more year and did nothing more than what he did during his last year with Dooley we would have gone 9-3 or even 10-2 during Dooley's last year (given how well the offense played). This is the reason I supported Dooley until the end - most of his decisions seemed logical to me (keeping Chaney to maintain continuity with Kiffins recruits, bringing in Pittman to fix the oline and running game, and even hiring Sal when Wilcox left - who could have though that someone with Sal's experienced and coming from Saban's school of defense could have turned out so bad).

 

[TDawg]

I agree with you but if you look at that list it's mostly offense. Dooley was a very good offensive recruiter/coach and built one of the best offenses we had at UT during his 3 years. The problem was that he completely outsourced defense and that did not work out (to put it mildly). The breaking point was the Kentucky game - after that loss Wilcox got spooked thinking Dooley's days were numbered and left - if he stayed one more year and did nothing more than what he did during his last year with Dooley we would have gone 9-3 or even 10-2 during Dooley's last year (given how well the offense played). This is the reason I supported Dooley until the end - most of his decisions seemed logical to me (keeping Chaney to maintain continuity with Kiffins recruits, bringing in Pittman to fix the oline and running game, and even hiring Sal when Wilcox left - who could have though that someone with Sal's experienced and coming from Saban's school of defense could have turned out so bad).

Yeah, Sal turned out to be pretty weak ... and yes, most of that list is on offense but AJ was a Dooley recruit and Reeves-Maybin and Cam Sutton both committed to Dooley. Cornerstone type players. There are several guys on the roster that are sophomores and juniors that play on the DLine and they should have been plugged in there a lot more last year. Same with some of the OL guys .. no reason there should be that much inexperience on either line when the personnel are there to prepare them for when the current players leave the program.

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

And what was the reason we lost to UF last year (4-8 UF team)? We had an experienced o line last year (3 in NFL) so surely you will agree that loss was due to poor coaching? Or do we use other excuses for last year? Next year it will be Worley and AJ are gone so of course we can't win with no leadership on either side of the ball, etc.
It gets old with all the excuses - at some point this staff needs to own the poor performance and losses and stop pointing fingers at players.

So Butch jones year one should have beat Florida just because they went 4-8?? You people are hysterical!

 

[SGMVols]

So Butch jones year one should have beat Florida just because they went 4-8?? You people are hysterical!

They lost to Georgia Southern. So to answer the question...um, yeah.

 

[TGVol]

So Butch jones year one should have beat Florida just because they went 4-8?? You people are hysterical!

So we should not expect to beat the team that was bad enough to lose to Georgia Southern at home (in addition to going 4-8)?

 

[majic73]

So everything player related can be a reason but poor coaching is off limits for discussion as possibly being a reason? Can you please explain if this staff is so good how come they never beat a top 25 team until last year? During their final year at Cincy they played 2 top 25 teams (Rutgers and Louisville) and lost both. They lost to Rutgers at home 10-3! Let me repeat this - they scored 3 points vs Rutgers at home with their own experienced players, and also few leftover players from Kelly who was supposedly a great recruiter. There is something wrong here - this offensive staff has been suspect in terms of consistency of performance, and this seems to have more to do with the coaches themselves, rather than players they have had over the years.

No poor coaching is not off limits . Overall results is not indicative of poor coaching however . Rutgers and Louisville were peers of Cincinnati's . So was Toledo ...their 3 rd loss of 2012. All 4 of these teams are mid major teams . In the Rudgers game Cinci had 340 yards of offense ...hardly a lack of production. Not to mention that they were dogs in each of these games by more than 3 points . Cinci also at beat VA Tech and Pitt that season and a few mid major bowl teams , and Cinci won their bowl game. Seems like a pretty good season ...not a national championship , but I would not expect that to be won at Cinnci.

So here are the coaching items :

Headed into a second top 10 , maybe top 5 recruiting year

The worst defense in UT history is now a top performer

Worley is now tough and capable and the whole of the receiving corp is improved
***
On the negative side ...we cant run the ball and cant protect the QB .

I understand that the term 'coaching' is synonymous with 'instant results' for many but it really seems like a couple of first year starters, freshmen , walk-ons , and a juco transfer manning the O line should explain some of the negatives . I cant even recall a team with this issue and I sure cant recall them winning anything.

I am not sure how coaching can build instant strength , and instill instant technical soundness ( a process that takes thousands or reps ) in a few months ...but I am sure they are all ears .

When we can block the scheme for more than 2.8 seconds , which is the time it takes for the top layers of the west coast passing tree to develop ...the run gaps will clear out . As of right now our offense is run within 8 yards of the ball for lack of blocking. The issue would be the same if we ran an I form. If our 4 cant block their 4 ...then 7 cant block 7. There is a whole thread called Gap Scheme Question where the X and O guys are breaking down . There is alot to be learned there

 

[TGVol]

I understand that the term 'coaching' is synonymous with 'instant results' for many but it really seems like a couple of first year starters, freshmen , walk-ons , and a juco transfer manning the O line should explain some of the negatives .

And what are the excuses for our offense sucking last year when we had 3 current NFL o-lineman, senior running back, and junior QB all parts of that offense? Perhaps they were too experienced?

 

[majic73]

And what are the excuses for our offense sucking last year when we had 3 current NFL o-lineman, senior running back, and junior QB all parts of that offense? Perhaps they were too experienced?

a freshman , walk-on, and two guys that were running backs the year before manning our receiving corps.

Worley was not very good last season ...thank goodness they got him and the receivers up to speed.

I would expect that 4.9 yards per carry is indicative of an NFL caliber O - line and senior running back . Most teams wish they had that . I wish we had that this year.

The O-line will develop juuuust like the QB and receiver developed from last season . Development of any position group takes time , especially offensive linemen where strength , agility , and technique are key .

 

[Reverend Bubba Flavel]

The worst defense in UT history is now a top performer

I have not looked at the stats. But I would not call the UT defense a top performer.

They gave up 10 points to a true freshman QB who came in in the 4th quarter.

They have yet to make a play to win a big game. You can have all the stats you want, but its not a top performer if they cannot make plays and allow what happened Saturday to happen.

I won;t argue that the defense is vastly improved from where it was 2 years ago. But "top performer" is more than a stretch.

 

[majic73]

I have not looked at the stats. But I would not call the UT defense a top performer.

They gave up 10 points to a true freshman QB who came in in the 4th quarter.

They have yet to make a play to win a big game. You can have all the stats you want, but its not a top performer if they cannot make plays and allow what happened Saturday to happen.

I won;t argue that the defense is vastly improved from where it was 2 years ago. But "top performer" is more than a stretch.

28th in the country out of 124 teams ...while playing one of the toughest schedules to date . They have one of the top 5 3rd down defenses in the country . Giving up 10 points to an SEC team is not a defensive failure. The inability to score touchdowns is where the team came up short .

 

[Reverend Bubba Flavel]

28th in the country out of 124 teams ...while playing one of the toughest schedules to date . They have one of the top 5 3rd down defenses in the country . Giving up 10 points to an SEC team is not a defensive failure. The inability to score touchdowns is where the team came up short .

Its not giving up 10 points. Its giving up 10 points to a true freshman playing in his first [real] game who came in in the 4th quarter and scored 10 points when down 9.

That is not what a top performing defense does - sorry.

A top performing defense does not give up the easy plays they gave up against Oklahoma. I mean those were busted plays, a top performing defense is consistent, and does not give up multiple plays like that.

Same with Georgia. True, we faced what is possibly the best back in the country, but top defenses do not let a guy - even THAT guy, beat you the way our defense did.

Not saying the defense is the problem or that its the defense's fault we have lost any of our 3 games. But top performing defenses don't do the things our defense has done.

 

[majic73]

Its not giving up 10 points. Its giving up 10 points to a true freshman playing in his first [real] game who came in in the 4th quarter and scored 10 points when down 9.

That is not what a top performing defense does - sorry.

A top performing defense does not give up the easy plays they gave up against Oklahoma. I mean those were busted plays, a top performing defense is consistent, and does not give up multiple plays like that.

Same with Georgia. True, we faced what is possibly the best back in the country, but top defenses do not let a guy - even THAT guy, beat you the way our defense did.

Not saying the defense is the problem or that its the defense's fault we have lost any of our 3 games. But top performing defenses don't do the things our defense has done.

I am afraid that top performing defenses do give up a multitude of yards against Oklahoma ...2013 bowl game ..Bama gave up 429 yards and 45 points. Okie is going to score points on whoever they play . As a matter of fact , they scored 34 points in their losing effort this weekend.

As far as UGA ...that was their lowest regular season scoring output since they played UF last season . So yes ...GA scores points on good defenses . They scored more against Auburn than they did UT. And Girly will be hanging yardage on NFL teams next season .

10 points is Floridas 3rd lowest output in 2 seasons ...2 seasons. Only LSU and Florida St have held them to less points.

As far a a back up coming in ...that happens all the time. In college there is not enough time to practice for the backup . Matt Mauk is a case study .

All of these statistics does not even begin to compensate for the unnatural amount of snaps that our D endures because our O cannot sustain a drive and keep them off the field . Given that , coupled with the lack of overall depth , makes their performance incredible.

I respect your opinion , even though statistics and numbers and measurable things do not support it .

 

[Reverend Bubba Flavel]

I am afraid that top performing defenses do give up a multitude of yards against Oklahoma ...2013 bowl game ..Bama gave up 429 yards and 45 points. Okie is going to score points on whoever they play . As a matter of fact , they scored 34 points in their losing effort this weekend.

As far as UGA ...that was their lowest regular season scoring output since they played UF last season . So yes ...GA scores points on good defenses . They scored more against Auburn than they did UT. And Girly will be hanging yardage on NFL teams next season .

10 points is Floridas 3rd lowest output in 2 seasons ...2 seasons. Only LSU and Florida St have held them to less points.

As far a a back up coming in ...that happens all the time. In college there is not enough time to practice for the backup . Matt Mauk is a case study .

All of these statistics does not even begin to compensate for the unnatural amount of snaps that our D endures because our O cannot sustain a drive and keep them off the field . Given that , coupled with the lack of overall depth , makes their performance incredible.

I respect your opinion , even though statistics and numbers and measurable things do not support it .

Stats can tell you something, but this is not baseball, they do not really tell the tale.

Tennessee gave up huge plays against oklahoma - just like what we saw in 2012. Granted, it wasn't as many, but imo top defenses do not give up those plays. Big plays happen, but not the number of times it happened against us.

If backups come in and score just enough points to beat teams then why do all teams not put their backup in when trailing? I mean you are acting like its not big deal: just put in your backup QB in a close game you are trailing, never mind he is a true freshman.

Good defenses do not let true freshman playing in their first game come in in the 4th quarter and produce a come from behind victory.

And on the stats: Gurley had his biggest game so far against us, his only game so far over 200 yards, and his highest ypc in the conference: with games against Vandy and USC.
Perhaps more importantly Gurley had 129 of his 208 yards in the 4th quarter in a close game: the time of the game I think top defenses clamp down - not give up 129 yards to a back or let a true freshman QB come in in the 4th and score 10 when down by 9.

Seems like we define top producing defense differently. I guess if we use stat criteria: Louisville and Baylor have two of the top 5 defenses in the country.