Dooley - clear upgrade

#151
#151
On NSD Christian Jones, DaRick Rogers (if Prater fell through), Chaz Green, and Justin Hunter would have been Vols. The NSD splash is just how they do things. It's likely Shon Coleman and others would have been as well.
 
#152
#152
kptvol said:
Correct. We did not sign Scroggins. Now, you're claiming I'm just looking for reasons to burn Dooley, but then you post this obviously unrelated swipe at Kiffin... To be honest, I've said nothing disparaging about Dooley. The class we got under Dooley was not as good as the class we'd have gotten if Kiffin stayed. That's not an insult. That would have been the case if Dooley were the best recruiter college football has ever seen. I merely wanted to correct the 470,000th inaccuracy utgibbs has posted.
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1. Swipes at Kiffin are acceptable and should be encouraged on this site. He damaged our football program. There is no reason to defend. I will not be made to feel bitter for taking swipes at a deserving target.

2. I agree that the class under Kiffin would have ended up higher rated than what Dooley ended up with. Big picture, I think we are on the same page there. The only thing I disagreed on was where Rogers would have ended up if Kiffin had stayed. I believe he is a Bulldog if Kiffin is our coach. We'll agree to disagree on that point and say GBO.
 
#153
#153
VolInMusicCity said:
1. Swipes at Kiffin are acceptable and should be encouraged on this site. He damaged our football program. There is no reason to defend. I will not be made to feel bitter for taking swipes at a deserving target.

It was a realistic swipe and I have no problem with it. Just pointing out that while you were questioning my objectivity and saying I was just searching for ways to criticize Dooley you were clearly doing that to Kiffin.

2. I agree that the class under Kiffin would have ended up higher rated than what Dooley ended up with. Big picture, I think we are on the same page there. The only thing I disagreed on was where Rogers would have ended up if Kiffin had stayed. I believe he is a Bulldog if Kiffin is our coach. We'll agree to disagree on that point and say GBO.
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I'm not sure we'd have gotten Rogers. I don't think it's a foregone conclusion we wouldn't have. The staff was definitely making a push at the end.
 
#154
#154
volwarrior33 said:
On NSD Christian Jones, DaRick Rogers (if Prater fell through), Chaz Green, and Justin Hunter would have been Vols. The NSD splash is just how they do things. It's likely Shon Coleman and others would have been as well.
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Slurp, slurp......
 
#156
#156
We all know it's going to come down to the staff CDD has put together. The individual work is what makes players who they are. They're technique and performance lies on the position coaches. The attitude and drive is the HC's job. Practice format and game planning is where I hope CDD excells!
 
#158
#158
Of the last two coaches we've had. I don't remember either of them emphasising so much about perfection. Go Big Orange!!!!
 
#159
#159
volwarrior33 said:
On NSD Christian Jones, DaRick Rogers (if Prater fell through), Chaz Green, and Justin Hunter would have been Vols. The NSD splash is just how they do things. It's likely Shon Coleman and others would have been as well.
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Absolutely ALL of this is subjective conjecture.
 
#160
#160
sjt18 said:
Absolutely ALL of this is subjective conjecture.
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Why don't you talk to LV (easily one of the three most reliable recruiting guys on here) and talk about the class we were going to have with Kiffin.
 
#162
#162
"
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,576

Quote:
Originally Posted by kptvol View Post
I'm sorry. The reason he's better is... a snappy comment to a reporter?

I mean, let's at least try to make sense. He hasn't coached a game yet. He hasn't had a chance to prove whether or not he's an upgrade or a downgrade.
Certainly his demeanor with the press is a clear upgrade.

I feel he has already done more with less than Kiffin and his staff. The way he improved K's recruiting class," this statement is ridiculous , im not a kiffin fan but if dooley signs a top 5 guy, much less the highest recruit in the nation, then u can talk.
 
#163
#163
kptvol said:
I'm not so sure. The Nash Nance package did happen prior to Kiffin leaving. That's just fact.
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Whats a fact? That your "not so sure"!

That doesnt even make sense!
Your just proving our point, it DID happen under DD and that is a FACT! No one knows for sure if it woulda happend under CLK, FACT! So we can only go by his own statements about "not so" interested under CLK but very interested under DD! FACT! Momma said that DD is what put him over the top! FACT!

Be happy we got a coach who can get top guys and let the Kiffy love go man! GEEZ!
 
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#165
#165
VKAman said:
I don't see how that makes Dooley an upgrade. Kiffin liked Tyler Bray and Tyler Bray is better.
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1. Dooley salvaged recruiting class.

2. Dooley improved recruiting class (in offseason too).

3. Dooley in no danger of 'AA.

4. Dooley better with the media.

5. Kiffin took 9 win team and made them 7.

6. Dooley has done more with less.

= upgrade
 
#166
#166
tnman2591 said:
? I have a subscription over on volquest and, uhhhh, this quote by CDD was made about DTackles, not fans. The reporter then said "are you saying none of them have stood out?" to which Dooley responded.

Don't know where you got that it was a quote about the fans.

Sorry if this has already been pointed out, I didn't feel like reading thru the whole thread before posting.
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Sigh.

I know the quote was about the D-Line. Just get excited. :rock:
 
#167
#167
I do have to note a pattern in this thread.

GoF claim Kiffin had stuff in the bag. Zero evidence.

Level-headed posters demonstrate with several links contrary information.

A recurring VolNation pattern if ever there was one.

Kiffin was a marketing genius. Aldous Huxley, author of Brave New World, gave a series of lectures at Oxford in the 1960s on the emerging science of marketing / science of suggestion. Broadly, Huxley said 20% of the population is immune to suggestion, 60% is moderately influenced by it, and 20% are completely bamboozled by it.

We know which bracket the GoF reside!
 
#168
#168
bamasucks76 said:
So you said he was a lock before you read FirstandTenn's post, and his "maybes" and "guesses" just topped it off! WTF!

Try the FACTS, he was for sure a lock with DD cause he is here! Just cause you THINK CLK was gonna bring him here dont mean sh!t! Good Greif! And so what if he was gonna visit here with CLK, he took lots of visits, so was he a lock at other schools too!

Plus you dont know more than Rogers and his mom! Yall are assuming they were keepin it a secret till signing day! While denying their quotes!
Thats called speculation not a LOCK!
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First, I didn't deal with "maybes and guesses". I put a link that showed for a fact that Nance had an offer from the old staff, which disputed a claim that someone was making that there was no chance of a package deal to get Da'Rick. From this fact, I did make one guess: Since he was scheduled for a visit and Nance had an offer, it was possible that the old staff got him.

Second, I give credit to Dooley for getting him here. I don't think it diminishes Dooley's accomplishment one bit, but your willfully blinding yourself to the facts if you continue to say that it was 100% sure he wouldn't be here if we still had the old staff. Accepting that the old staff was good at recruiting does not mean you think Dooley is worse, it just means you accept that the last staff was built around recruiting first and foremost.

Third, Da'Rick did keep his commitment to UT a secret. He was a UGA commit until signing day. Is it really such a stretch to think he might have been hiding his intentions prior to the old staff's exit? Doesn't it make sense to bash the coaches that just abandoned the school you have just signed with? I'm just trying to use logic and the facts that are available to craft the most reasonable scenario.

And let me stress one more time. Just because the deal was in the works doesn't have to be a negative for Dooley. In a little less than a month, he sold Da'Rick on coming to UT, and he should get credit for that regardless of who started the conversations with the prospect.
 
#169
#169
utgibbs said:
I do have to note a pattern in this thread.

GoF claim Kiffin had stuff in the bag. Zero evidence.

Level-headed posters demonstrate with several links contrary information.

A recurring VolNation pattern if ever there was one.

Kiffin was a marketing genius. Aldous Huxley, author of Brave New World, gave a series of lectures at Oxford in the 1960s on the emerging science of marketing / science of suggestion. Broadly, Huxley said 20% of the population is immune to suggestion, 60% is moderately influenced by it, and 20% are completely bamboozled by it.

We know which bracket the GoF reside!
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Am I in the GoF now because I posted a link that proved they were going to visit before the old staff left? I mean, you did just basically deny I posted the information in that link with the whole "Zero Evidence" comment. I'm really not a Kiffin supporter or Dooley basher, but you tend to use that generic made-up insult on anyone that disagrees with you or posts a fact that disputes one of your arguments, so I just want to know if I'm now on your mythical list of the GoF.

Also, it is worth noting that I never said Kiffin had Da'Rick in the bag, but rather made the statement that the package deal was a real possibility under the old staff because they offered Nance and had Da'Rick scheduled to visit.
 
#170
#170
zjcvols said:
Why don't you talk to LV (easily one of the three most reliable recruiting guys on here) and talk about the class we were going to have with Kiffin.
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I like LV. I respect his opinions. But no one KNOWS what would have actually come together.

IMO, it is very, very likely that it would have been better than what UT ended up with but some of the stuff being CONJECTURED is ridiculous- it wasn't going to happen anywhere but Narnia.
 
#171
#171
First&Tenn said:
Am I in the GoF now because I posted a link that proved they were going to visit before the old staff left? I mean, you did just basically deny I posted the information in that link with the whole "Zero Evidence" comment. I'm really not a Kiffin supporter or Dooley basher, but you tend to use that generic made-up insult on anyone that disagrees with you or posts a fact that disputes one of your arguments, so I just want to know if I'm now on your mythical list of the GoF.

Also, it is worth noting that I never said Kiffin had Da'Rick in the bag, but rather made the statement that the package deal was a real possibility under the old staff because they offered Nance and had Da'Rick scheduled to visit.
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It wasn't your posts I had in mind. You don't really spring to mind when I use GoF, but do you want to be?

I'm not sure what the generic insult is. GoF?

Only one thing really matters, Da'Rick signed with Dooley as did the entire 2010 class. It's over, Rock, on any other debate, IMHO.
 
#172
#172
VKAman said:
I don't see how that makes Dooley an upgrade. Kiffin liked Tyler Bray and Tyler Bray is better.
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It was an answer to a specific point... not a blanket statement. I don't know yet whether he's an upgrade or not. That will be demonstrated on the field.

The only one that I would call a "clear" upgrade is Hiestand. I personally think Smith is a better coach but he doesn't have alot of recruiting experience. The only one I would call a clear "downgrade" is Wilcox (not a negative statement toward him just respect for CMK). IMO, the jury is still way out on the rest of it.
 
#173
#173
sjt18 said:
I like LV. I respect his opinions. But no one KNOWS what would have actually come together.

IMO, it is very, very likely that it would have been better than what UT ended up with but some of the stuff being CONJECTURED is ridiculous- it wasn't going to happen anywhere but Narnia.
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This^2

The class signed with Dooley. It was his class. It was burning up in the atmosphere before he salvaged and improved it.

If we were to use GoF logic, Fulmer had a much better recruiting class than Kiffin in 2009.
 
#174
#174
sjt18 said:
It was an answer to a specific point... not a blanket statement. I don't know yet whether he's an upgrade or not. That will be demonstrated on the field.

The only one that I would call a "clear" upgrade is Hiestand. I personally think Smith is a better coach but he doesn't have alot of recruiting experience. The only one I would call a clear "downgrade" is Wilcox (not a negative statement toward him just respect for CMK). IMO, the jury is still way out on the rest of it.
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I'll agree with almost all of that.

I personally think that the potential for Wilcox to be great and actually stay for a longer period of time than a couple of years (because of age) coupled with his ability to stop the spread make his value roughly equal to Monte's. If we could have reasonably expected Monte to adjust to the spread (jury is still out) and stay for more than 2-3 years, Wilcox would be a clear downgrade.
 
#175
#175
utgibbs said:
It wasn't your posts I had in mind. You don't really spring to mind when I use GoF, but do you want to be?

I'm not sure what the generic insult is. GoF?

Only one thing really matters, Da'Rick signed with Dooley as did the entire 2010 class. It's over, Rock, on any other debate, IMHO.
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Don't really care if you consider me to be in the GoF or not. Just wanted a more clear definition of how you define this GoF since you seem to disregard any comment they make. I've just never been a fan of broad generalizations.

I can agree that Dooley getting Da'Rick is a great thing and he deserves credit for it. Regardless of who got the process started or when.
 
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