Dooley - clear upgrade

#101
#101
VolInMusicCity said:
Link up the reports he was "heading to UT before Kiffin left". There aren't any. A couple of you guys having selective memory doesn't count as a "report". The garbage here is you ignoring the words direct from Da'Rick's mouth. He wasn't coming to play for Kiffin.

To further destroy your premise that Nash Nance package deal was in the works during the Kiffin era I present this...

Still, there seemed to be a time when the Vols had the inside track on Scroggins.

When he visited in the summer, he brought along his cousin: receiver Jerry Anderson from Germantown High School.

Many thought a package deal could be in the works, especially since Scroggins had family in Memphis. If so, the deal never materialized.

Shortly after Scroggins’ visit, Kiffin, in generalities, said he was opposed to offering two players a scholarship to land one.

Scroggins firm with Southern Cal commitment GoVolsXtra

Kiffin wouldn't do a package deal to get Scroggins, his #1 quarterback in the class, but you expect us to believe he was willing to do one for Da'Rick when he already had a commit from Ambles! Come on man! Kiff is a good recruiter but he wasn't going to get Rogers. Admit it.
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So you're saying Dooley was willing to waste a scholarship on Nance to get Rogers, and Kiffin wasn't, so that makes Dooley an upgrade?
 
#102
#102
kptvol said:
Package deal was most certainly in the works. Look it up. Reports were around that Rogers was a UT lean. Perhaps they were inaccurate. That's certainly possible. They were out there. That is what I said.
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I've looked. Maybe your Google can find something mine can't. The only thing I can find is Da'Rick saying he wouldn't play for Kiffin. If you can show me one I'll gladly admit I'm off base here.

Da'Rick saying he wouldn't play for Kiffin along with the fact that Kiffin wouldn't even do a package deal for Scroggins tells me all I need to know. Dooley made the Rogers thing happen. Why can't you give him that? I'm not saying Dooley is a better recruiter than Kiffin, its still to be determined. I am saying Kiffin doesn't get Da'Rick Rogers. That's all I'm saying.
 
#103
#103
VKAman said:
So you're saying Dooley was willing to waste a scholarship on Nance to get Rogers, and Kiffin wasn't, so that makes Dooley an upgrade?
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I don't think that act alone makes him an upgrade. I do think it proves that Dooley is the sole reason we have Da'Rick and that was the only argument I was making.
 
#104
#104
VolInMusicCity said:
I've looked. Maybe your Google can find something mine can't. The only thing I can find is Da'Rick saying he wouldn't play for Kiffin. If you can show me one I'll gladly admit I'm off base here.

Da'Rick saying he wouldn't play for Kiffin along with the fact that Kiffin wouldn't even do a package deal for Scroggins tells me all I need to know. Dooley made the Rogers thing happen. Why can't you give him that? I'm not saying Dooley is a better recruiter than Kiffin, its still to be determined. I am saying Kiffin doesn't get Da'Rick Rogers. That's all I'm saying.
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Actually, you're basically saying that Kiffin didn't WANT Rogers...
 
#106
#106
kptvol said:
Package deal was most certainly in the works. Look it up. Reports were around that Rogers was a UT lean. Perhaps they were inaccurate. That's certainly possible. They were out there. That is what I said.
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No you said I was seeing things as I want!

Reports being "out there" while denying actual quotes means YOUR believing what YOU want!

He posted his proof and you cant!!!
WAKE UP!!
 
#107
#107
VolInMusicCity said:
I've looked. Maybe your Google can find something mine can't. The only thing I can find is Da'Rick saying he wouldn't play for Kiffin. If you can show me one I'll gladly admit I'm off base here.

Da'Rick saying he wouldn't play for Kiffin along with the fact that Kiffin wouldn't even do a package deal for Scroggins tells me all I need to know. Dooley made the Rogers thing happen. Why can't you give him that? I'm not saying Dooley is a better recruiter than Kiffin, its still to be determined. I am saying Kiffin doesn't get Da'Rick Rogers. That's all I'm saying.
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Was that quote from Rogers recorded before or after the coaching change?
 
#108
#108
VolInMusicCity said:
I don't think that act alone makes him an upgrade. I do think it proves that Dooley is the sole reason we have Da'Rick and that was the only argument I was making.
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He's not the sole reason. Their (Rogers and Nance's) visit to Tennessee was scheduled under Kiffin. Dooley was hired and already had a star high school WR coming to his campus two days later, because the Kiffin staff had already done a lot of the legwork.
 
#110
#110
VKAman said:
Actually, you're basically saying that Kiffin didn't WANT Rogers...
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Not sure how I am saying that....Kiffin definitely wanted Scroggins but wasn't willing to do a package deal. Why would he have done a package deal for anyone else? That's all I'm saying.

If Kiffin didn't want him then he was a bigger idiot than originally thought.
 
#111
#111
sjt18 said:
No it isn't. He was an exceptional OL coach in college then went on to coach OL on a Super Bowl team. While I don't think a rational person can say Wilcox's resume compares to CMK's. Others are debatable or lean toward the old staff... but Hiestand is a definite upgrade.
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To be fair, Wilcox is only what, 40+ years younger, and thus hasn't built the resume yet?
 
#112
#112
VolInMusicCity said:
Not sure how I am saying that....Kiffin definitely wanted Scroggins but wasn't willing to do a package deal. Why would he have done a package deal for anyone else? That's all I'm saying.

If Kiffin didn't want him then he was a bigger idiot than originally thought.
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Ambles and Prater are both better. Ambles was committed already, and Prater was making Tennessee his first visit after Carroll left. My guess is that Kiffin would have offered Nance if we didn't get Prater. Either way, Rogers was coming here if we wanted him enough that we were willing to offer Nance to get him.
 
#114
#114
VKAman said:
Ambles and Prater are both better. Ambles was committed already, and Prater was making Tennessee his first visit after Carroll left. My guess is that Kiffin would have offered Nance if we didn't get Prater. Either way, Rogers was coming here if we wanted him enough that we were willing to offer Nance to get him.
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Not willing to argue who is better between those three guys. Any coach would love to have any of them.

In regards to your statement in bold, you have zero evidence to prove that would have come close to happening. From Rogers side, he was quoted as saying he wasn't interested in playing for the previous staff. From Kiffin's side, he has a history of not making package deals.

ALL I AM SAYING IS THAT DOOLEY GOT DA'RICK ROGERS. KIFFIN DIDN'T. NOT SAYING THAT MAKES KIFFIN A BAD RECRUITER OR DOOLEY A GREAT RECRUITER. JUST GIVE THE GUY THIS ONE. DD GOT DA'RICK.
 
#115
#115
VolInMusicCity said:
ALL I AM SAYING IS THAT DOOLEY GOT DA'RICK ROGERS. KIFFIN DIDN'T. NOT SAYING THAT MAKES KIFFIN A BAD RECRUITER OR DOOLEY A GREAT RECRUITER. JUST GIVE THE GUY THIS ONE. DD GOT DA'RICK.
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I credit Dooley for holding on, but Orgeron/Kiff had Rogers and Nance locked in.
 
#117
#117
utgibbs said:
Dooley is a clear upgrade over the last coach. I've been saying it for awhile, and he hasn't disappointed. He's been quietly making the Vols better and better (not so quietly now!), and he's done more with less in Knoxville since arriving. Kiffin had SO much more to work with and SO much less to deal with.

We could have General Neyland, Nick Saban, and Vince Lombardi as our Big Three on the sidelines this year, and we might still be 2 - 6. We've got to support Dooley all the way; we can't let another mass myopia cloud his early tenure.

"[UT fans] are like a sack of potatoes. You shake 'em up and pull one out of the bag. Some are different shape from the others; some are rounder; some have more eyes. Put 'em in the oven and bake 'em and they all taste about the same...."

Reporter: "Are you saying they all love the Vols?"

"I don't know how I could have said it any clearer....."
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? I have a subscription over on volquest and, uhhhh, this quote by CDD was made about DTackles, not fans. The reporter then said "are you saying none of them have stood out?" to which Dooley responded.

Don't know where you got that it was a quote about the fans.

Sorry if this has already been pointed out, I didn't feel like reading thru the whole thread before posting.
 
#118
#118
Did some research on this whole debate...

AJC Article

First, Coach O did offer Nance and had him and Da'Rick scheduled for a Jan. 22 visit.

Orgeron, the Vols’ assistant head coach and recruiting coordinator, had an in-home visit with Calhoun’s record-setting quarterback on Tuesday. Rogers, Nance’s close friend and one-time roommate, was also in the home at the time. Nance, a three-star prospect who has been committed to Vanderbilt since June, was offered a scholarship and set up an official visit to Tennessee for Jan. 22. Nance said Rogers will make the UT visit with him.

“Coach Orgeron sat down and talked to us both and we both set official visits to Tennessee on January 22,” Nance told Scout.com’s Chad Simmons.
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Although, Da'Rick did claim to still be solid to UGA at that time.

“I’m still 100 percent solid to Georgia,” Simmons quoted Rogers as saying. “Tennessee came to offer Nash and that is what it was. Georgia fans and coaches have nothing to worry about as of this point.”
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My guess is that the package deal was a real possibility under the old staff, and Da'Rick's comments around signing day about the old staff were just him playing to his new home and fanbase at UT.

Edit: It's worth noting that this blog was written 6 days before Kiffin left for USC.
 
#119
#119
First&Tenn said:
My guess is that the package deal was a real possibility under the old staff, and Da'Rick's comments around signing day about the old staff were just him playing to his new home and fanbase at UT.
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Bingo. The package deal was done, and Rogers was planning to be a signing day surprise for Kiffin.
 
#121
#121
tnman2591 said:
? I have a subscription over on volquest and, uhhhh, this quote by CDD was made about DTackles, not fans.

Don't know where you got that it was a quote about the fans.
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true.

what CDD actually said was, "UT fans are like a box of chocolates. when you reach in you never know what you are going to get, kptvol or gibbs."
 
#122
#122
kptvol said:
I'm sorry. The reason he's better is... a snappy comment to a reporter?

I mean, let's at least try to make sense. He hasn't coached a game yet. He hasn't had a chance to prove whether or not he's an upgrade or a downgrade.
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How about zero NCAA infractions, has not called another coach a cheater,while also pointing out his lack of knowledge of the rules, he is from this region (dipshiet never looked comfortable in the Tenn Hills,Beverly Hills maybe) Lane Violation may still cause us some embarassment(sp) which I would never expect from CDD. Even though I was drinkin the Kiffin koolade, I was also extremely nervous about him (bragging about recruiting and piling up secondary violations, along with limited knowlegde or respect for the rule book are actions that lead to letters of inquiry!!! Kiffin has won 13 games total in his glorious career,thats thirteen more games than me,LMFAO and people question Dooley's coaching ability. Until he has the weapons,which we have a nice crop of young talent and adding more daily, I will trust Nick Saban, Will Muschamp and other coaches who have worked with him and praise him as a bright young coach. CDD's staff in my opinion is every bit as talented as the one RichardHead had put togther and bragged about incessantly. Now after all that, YES WE ARE IN BETTER HANDS WITH THIS STAFF THAN THE LAST ONE!! GO VOLS AND CDD!!!
 
#123
#123
VKAman said:
So you're saying Dooley was willing to waste a scholarship on Nance to get Rogers, and Kiffin wasn't, so that makes Dooley an upgrade?
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Apparently DD was willing to listen to Chaney and Chaney always liked Nance.
 
#124
#124
kptvol said:
O's been around a long time and has consistently been regarded as one of the best recruiters in the game. He did pretty good to get top 20 classes at Ole Miss while winning 3 games a year. He also did well at Miami. He was doing well here prior to his departure. I'm not sure what else there is to say.
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O has been around awhile. Perception is usually accepted as reality... but again, what credible recruiter couldn't do well in talent rich areas like LA and Miami?

I disagree completely about his performance at Ole Miss. That was the TRUE test for O. It was him and him alone. He was in a state with more talent than TN and as much per capita is most SEC states. His best recruit was probably Oher... who quite possibly would have signed with Fulmer had his "mom" stayed out of it.

I'm not sure "well" describes recruits who have attrited as fast as theirs have. I count 9 guys in the 09 class that had no interest in UT prior to CLK/O. Four are gone and 3 due to character issues. Six players were 4-5* and 3 of them are gone.

Say what you want but even Fulmer was getting "stars"... he just wasn't getting/keeping them on the field. O and Kiffin seemed to be following the same pattern.
 
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#125
#125
Jaytrain5 said:
Bingo. The package deal was done, and Rogers was planning to be a signing day surprise for Kiffin.
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So you said he was a lock before you read FirstandTenn's post, and his "maybes" and "guesses" just topped it off! WTF!

Try the FACTS, he was for sure a lock with DD cause he is here! Just cause you THINK CLK was gonna bring him here dont mean sh!t! Good Greif! And so what if he was gonna visit here with CLK, he took lots of visits, so was he a lock at other schools too!

Plus you dont know more than Rogers and his mom! Yall are assuming they were keepin it a secret till signing day! While denying their quotes!
Thats called speculation not a LOCK!
 
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