Dooley and his way of recruiting

[sjt18]

You're giving Kiffin too much credit. He wasn't here long enough to "set the program back".

He signed one class. That class collectively is already a bust. His lack of integrity and the culture it bred may result in NCAA problems. Those two things DID set the program back. When you have Fulmer's 07 and 08 classes then you need something much better than CLK's 09 class.

 

[sjt18]

I do believe Dooley has had a hand in that but Kiffin ran a pretty tight ship as far as discipline went.

Kiffin's one positive was that he ran off some guys who were dead weight. He probably cut some muscle out with the fat... but it would be hard not to following Fulmer.

 

[CardsNVols]

He signed one class. That class collectively is already a bust. His lack of integrity and the culture it bred may result in NCAA problems. Those two things DID set the program back. When you have Fulmer's 07 and 08 classes then you need something much better than CLK's 09 class.

This is basically what I was trying to say.

 

[sjt18]

To the contrary, firing Fulmer the way it was done and bringing in an unknown like Dooley would have been catastrophic.

He wasn't an unknown. He helped Saban build LSU and then was hired by Saban when he went to the Dolphins. I have read that Saban tried to bring him to Bama as well but Dooley took the LT job instead to gain HC experience.

Had he followed Saban to Bama, he would have been on everyone's short list and might have even snubbed UT when Kiffin left as Muschamp did.

Had he been offered the job in 09 then he would have been fresh off taking LT to its first bowl win in forever. Again, he would have made the short list for many schools.

 

[tigervol9802]

BOP1 is back

It's Christmas in July!!!!!!!

 

[CardsNVols]

To the contrary, firing Fulmer the way it was done and bringing in an unknown like Dooley would have been catastrophic. Hamilton gambled on Kiffin and who all Kiffin promised to bring in. Hamilton erroneously "thought" bringing in Kiffin would pacify the people upset over the way he dismissed Fulmer. There were many people who told Hamilton he was making a mistake hiring Kiffin but Hamilton wouldn't listen. Hamilton had promised the people above him that he had a homerun hire in line, so after all the ones he had in mind turned him down, Hamilton bit into the Kiffin name. Nobody else was going to touch Kiffin even though Kiffin had applied for every job that was open. Even the slimebag Al Davis was right about Kiffin.
Anyway, after Kiffin cut and ran Hamilton couldn't find any recognizable coach who would even talk to him. These coaches saw how he did Fulmer, and they suspected NCAA problems forthcoming for Tennessee because of the Kiffin/Orgeron duo of dimwits. Plus, Hamilton got Dooley cheap.
As I said earlier, Dooley is a good person and seems to be doing many good things for the program. But he's not the homerun hire that will turn a program around in 2-3 years. Personally, I don't think Tennessee fans are willing to wait long enough for Dooley to have us in contention again.

Again, Dooley wasn't unknown. And as I said, his stock would've been higher in '09 than it was in '10.

 

[blitzinbuc]

He wasn't an unknown. He helped Saban build LSU and then was hired by Saban when he went to the Dolphins. I have read that Saban tried to bring him to Bama as well but Dooley took the LT job instead to gain HC experience.

Had he followed Saban to Bama, he would have been on everyone's short list and might have even snubbed UT when Kiffin left as Muschamp did.

Had he been offered the job in 09 then he would have been fresh off taking LT to its first bowl win in forever. Again, he would have made the short list for many schools.

Nobody else tried to hire Dooley for '09, nor did he have any offers prior to us hiring him. Nobody!!!
Notice that Dooley was NEVER promoted or was a coordinator under all those years with Saban? There's a reason.

 

[blitzinbuc]

Again, Dooley wasn't unknown. And as I said, his stock would've been higher in '09 than it was in '10.

I have no idea what you're basing that on? Please share.

Nobody else tried to hire Dooley in '09, nor did he have any offers prior to us hiring him. Nobody was after him!!! If Hamilton had hired Dooley after discharging Fulmer, Tennessee fans would have stormed the UTAD and strung Hamilton up for hiring a coach from LT with a losing record.

Notice that Dooley was NEVER promoted or was a coordinator under all those years with Saban? There's a reason.

 

[sjt18]

Nobody else tried to hire Dooley for '09, nor did he have any offers prior to us hiring him. Nobody!!!

And you know this how?

Do you understand the way coaching searches go? They are designed through agents and search companies so that both sides can deny interest until a deal is struck. That way a coach doesn't have to deal with rejection or flack in his current job. The school doesn't have to deal with the negative implications of being rejected.

Notice that Dooley was NEVER promoted or was a coordinator under all those years with Saban? There's a reason.

Are you sure about that? Going from TE/recruiting coordinator to RB/ST's coordinator to TE coach in the NFL is a decent career progression.

Beyond that, Saban has been pretty complimentary in an unsolicited way.

The point is that he was not an unknown. You are simply wrong about that. It doesn't help you cause to continue to argue to the contrary.

 

[bleedorange0037]

And you know this how?

Do you understand the way coaching searches go? They are designed through agents and search companies so that both sides can deny interest until a deal is struck. That way a coach doesn't have to deal with rejection or flack in his current job. The school doesn't have to deal with the negative implications of being rejected.


Are you sure about that? Going from TE/recruiting coordinator to RB/ST's coordinator to TE coach in the NFL is a decent career progression.

Beyond that, Saban has been pretty complimentary in an unsolicited way.

The point is that he was not an unknown. You are simply wrong about that. It doesn't help you cause to continue to argue to the contrary.

If you were Nick Saban, wouldn't you be complimentary of one of your two biggest rivals hiring a whipping post for you? I know I'd be happy sitting in Saban's chair and seeing that hire made.

 

[sjt18]

I have no idea what you're basing that on? Please share.

Nobody else tried to hire Dooley in '09, nor did he have any offers prior to us hiring him. Nobody was after him!!! If Hamilton had hired Dooley after discharging Fulmer, Tennessee fans would have stormed the UTAD and strung Hamilton up for hiring a coach from LT with a losing record.

Notice that Dooley was NEVER promoted or was a coordinator under all those years with Saban? There's a reason.

You might want to educate yourself before making any more comments like this. After the 08 season, Dooley was flying high. He had just taken one of the most futile programs in CFB to their first bowl victory and only third bowl appearance since moving up to FBS. He beat Miss ST that year. EVERYONE thought LT was moving in the right direction in a big hurry.

MULTIPLE LSU fans have said that his name was often mentioned as a replacement for Myles.

 

[bleedorange0037]

The point is that he was not an unknown. You are simply wrong about that. It doesn't help you cause to continue to argue to the contrary.

If he was so well known and respected, then why wasn't his name even as much as mentioned during the '08 coaching search when he was coming off a winning season and a bowl appearance. However, after an '09 season in which his team regressed by 4 wins, we are supposed to believe that Mike Hamilton really got the guy he thought was the man for the job? I'm calling BS on that. This was a desperation hire and Dooley was the lucky straw that MH managed to grasp onto, nothing more.

 

[sjt18]

If you were Nick Saban, wouldn't you be complimentary of one of your two biggest rivals hiring a whipping post for you? I know I'd be happy sitting in Saban's chair and seeing that hire made.

You bet... I have no doubt that you would sacrifice a long friendship with Vince Dooley by giving false praise to his son who you were privately mocking.

You just can't get by your own bias, can you?

For my part, no. I would not be complimentary of anyone like he was much less one of my biggest rivals. Why? Very simple. Even if I thought the guy was a complete joke I wouldn't want good recruits or coaches to give more credibility to them than they deserved. The fact that good players can carry bad coaches needs no more proof than Les Miles.

 

[EZE]

He signed one class. That class collectively is already a bust. His lack of integrity and the culture it bred may result in NCAA problems. Those two things DID set the program back. When you have Fulmer's 07 and 08 classes then you need something much better than CLK's 09 class.

Bingo. The only good thing about Kiffin is that he served as the transition coach from Fulmer. It is always hard to follow a long-time coach at a school, and the coach that does it usually doesn't last. Let's hope that Dooley gets it done and we don't have any more transition for a while. The record will speak for itself over the next few years and then he can be fairly evaluated.

Other than the above, Kiffin was an absolute embarrassment and disaster for UT. Sadly, he is like a bad venereal disease, and keeps reappearing like an ugly rash ever so often.

 

[sjt18]

If he was so well known and respected, then why wasn't his name even as much as mentioned during the '08 coaching search when he was coming off a winning season and a bowl appearance.

You do not know that he wasn't... any more than I know he was. If you remember, the chant then was that UT needed to hit a homerun. They needed some high profile guy who would immediately get attention.

However, after an '09 season in which his team regressed by 4 wins, we are supposed to believe that Mike Hamilton really got the guy he thought was the man for the job? I'm calling BS on that. This was a desperation hire and Dooley was the lucky straw that MH managed to grasp onto, nothing more.

Once again, you let your bias shade your statement of the facts. DD was the anti-Kiffin for sure. He has many of the things that UT should be looking for with regard to skill- organization, willingness to make tough calls, integrity, hard work, intelligence, class, etc. At that point MH was still the AD. The Pearl stuff had not happened. Hamilton was making a career defining hire. He chose to hire someone who he thought was headed for great things. He probably thought he was hiring a "Saban" after 3 years at Mich St instead of 7. Left with very few "proven" options, I believe he tried to find the best up and comer that he could... it happened to be Dooley.

Odd tidbit. It might well have been Clawson had he not accepted the OC job a year before.

But I have acknowledged that Dooley was a reach. IMO, the short list guys like Muschamp and Peterson were not willing to risk their very promising careers on the situation that existed at UT in the wake of Kiffin's departure. The roster was horrible. There was no guarantee that commits would stick or even early enrollees. It was a long shot to believe that any additional top shelf recruits were going to listen. It was a set up for failure. Why should anyone who could wait on a Texas, UF, UGA, LSU, etc job risk their career on UT?

The answer is extremely obvious... they wouldn't. No guy with an NFL legacy was going to risk that either.

Some suggest that UT didn't offer enough money. Well, if I offered you $6 million to take a job with strong odds of ending in failure and your being unable to find another job after 3 years would you take it knowing that you were in line for a job with much better prospects for long term success and reward?

 

[bleedorange0037]

You do not know that he wasn't... any more than I know he was. If you remember, the chant then was that UT needed to hit a homerun. They needed some high profile guy who would immediately get attention.

Once again, you let your bias shade your statement of the facts. DD was the anti-Kiffin for sure. He has many of the things that UT should be looking for with regard to skill- organization, willingness to make tough calls, integrity, hard work, intelligence, class, etc. At that point MH was still the AD. The Pearl stuff had not happened. Hamilton was making a career defining hire. He chose to hire someone who he thought was headed for great things. He probably thought he was hiring a "Saban" after 3 years at Mich St instead of 7. Left with very few "proven" options, I believe he tried to find the best up and comer that he could... it happened to be Dooley.

Odd tidbit. It might well have been Clawson had he not accepted the OC job a year before.

The point I'm making is that by all accounts, DD's name was never even once in serious consideration for the job in '08, a time when any sane person will admit his stock was at his highest. If Mike Hamilton truly though Dooley was the next Saban, surely he had to know of him during the '08 coaching search, and regardless of the public perception at the time, if he honestly believed that DD was Nick Saban v2.0, he would have been a fool to pass on him.

What I would like to know is what happened during that 4-8 season where DD's team regressed SIGNIFICANTLY that then convinced Hamilton he was the next Saban? Something doesn't quite add up there. That's I personally believe that DD just caught a lucky break that no qualified coaches were interested and got the job just because Hamilton was willing to hire just about anyone who would take the job, regardless of whether they were deserving or not.



As for Dave Clawson, he has proven himself a capable coach with the lone exception of the year he was forced to deal with Fulmer's incessant meddling. Does that mean he would have been a good coach at UT, we'll never know.

*Edit... I didn't even look at Bowling Green's 2010 record. I knew he had a decent first year there, but had really not paid any attention since then. 2010 was a pretty awful showing for him as well.

 

[blitzinbuc]

If he was so well known and respected, then why wasn't his name even as much as mentioned during the '08 coaching search when he was coming off a winning season and a bowl appearance. However, after an '09 season in which his team regressed by 4 wins, we are supposed to believe that Mike Hamilton really got the guy he thought was the man for the job? I'm calling BS on that. This was a desperation hire and Dooley was the lucky straw that MH managed to grasp onto, nothing more.

Amazing how people like to isolate one good year that Dooley had out of the four he was there at LT. You're right that Dooley regressed to a losing record the year Tennessee hired him. Overall, Dooley had a losing record at LT.

 

[Kurtastrophe]

Amazing how people like to isolate one good year that Dooley had out of the four he was there at LT. You're right that Dooley regressed to a losing record the year Tennessee hired him. Overall, Dooley had a losing record at LT.

Don't let silly little things like facts get into the way.

 

[bleedorange0037]

Amazing how people like to isolate one good year that Dooley had out of the four he was there at LT. You're right that Dooley regressed to a losing record the year Tennessee hired him. Overall, Dooley had a losing record at LT.

He was only there for 3 years. Either way, I have a feeling that 1 winning season in 3 years isn't going to cut it at UT, much less serve as a springboard to a better job that his years at La Tech did.

 

[blitzinbuc]

You might want to educate yourself before making any more comments like this. After the 08 season, Dooley was flying high. He had just taken one of the most futile programs in CFB to their first bowl victory and only third bowl appearance since moving up to FBS. He beat Miss ST that year. EVERYONE thought LT was moving in the right direction in a big hurry.

MULTIPLE LSU fans have said that his name was often mentioned as a replacement for Myles.

Replacement for Myles......are you serious? Dooley's name has never been even hinted about replacing ANY coach at any major University. :loco:

The year Dooley lead LT to a bowl game and beat MSU was the same year he lost to Nevada and Army. That was Dooley's ONLY winning year at LT. Dooley's last year at LT, they won something like 4 games.

 

[justingroves]

The point I'm making is that by all accounts, DD's name was never even once in serious consideration for the job in '08,

Dooley's name was mentioned but never seriously.

To be fair to a lot of the candidates, minds were made up on Kiffin relatively early in the search.

 

[kptvol]

To the contrary, firing Fulmer the way it was done and bringing in an unknown like Dooley would have been catastrophic. Hamilton gambled on Kiffin and who all Kiffin promised to bring in. Hamilton erroneously "thought" bringing in Kiffin would pacify the people upset over the way he dismissed Fulmer. There were many people who told Hamilton he was making a mistake hiring Kiffin but Hamilton wouldn't listen. Hamilton had promised the people above him that he had a homerun hire in line, so after all the ones he had in mind turned him down, Hamilton bit into the Kiffin name. Nobody else was going to touch Kiffin even though Kiffin had applied for every job that was open. Even the slimebag Al Davis was right about Kiffin.
Anyway, after Kiffin cut and ran Hamilton couldn't find any recognizable coach who would even talk to him. These coaches saw how he did Fulmer, and they suspected NCAA problems forthcoming for Tennessee because of the Kiffin/Orgeron duo of dimwits. Plus, Hamilton got Dooley cheap.
As I said earlier, Dooley is a good person and seems to be doing many good things for the program. But he's not the homerun hire that will turn a program around in 2-3 years. Personally, I don't think Tennessee fans are willing to wait long enough for Dooley to have us in contention again.

Could you present a few more of your fantasies as fact, please?

 

[blitzinbuc]

He was only there for 3 years. Either way, I have a feeling that 1 winning season in 3 years isn't going to cut it at UT, much less serve as a springboard to a better job that his years at La Tech did.

Thanks for the correction. If he doesn't win at least 8 games this year I can see trouble ahead for him.
I see that many of the same people saying last year to wait until 2011 are already saying wait till 2012. Just keep sliding the date out there folks.

 

[blitzinbuc]

Could you present a few more of your fantasies as fact, please?

Since you're apparently disputing it, prove it's not fact.

 

[kptvol]

Since you're apparently disputing it, prove it's not fact.

Right. I need to spend time proving that Hamilton was thinking hiring Lane Kiffin would appease people that were angry about Phil getting fired. Otherwise, everyone will believe you.