Dooley and his way of recruiting

#276
#276
VKAman said:
Not liking phonies and cheaters makes one a Vandy fan? Yeah, there are no other programs out there cleaner than Auburn...way to insult Tennessee...
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Apparently not liking a guy that believes God wanted Auburn to win a title or not liking a guy that re-recruited Willie Williams makes you a Vandy fan.
 
#277
#277
I think 8 wins is the ceiling, not the floor. Jmo.
blitzinbuc said:
For those of you who are so sure that Dooley is getting it done doing things the way he is, what are your expectations for the team this year? Before you start giving excuses remember that the ooc schedule is the weakest it's ever been, so that's 4 wins. We play Vandy & Kentucky, that's 2 more wins totalling 6.
The SEC east is the weakest it's ever been and Arkansas is rebuilding, so how many victories do you think can we get with the remaining 6 games?
I think 8 regular season victories should be the minimum expected.
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#278
#278
Cody. Is that you?
blitzinbuc said:
If Bray tore his knee up, who knows we may be better off? I'm not wishing that on Bray but Simms does a lot more big game experience than Bray does. The only half way decent team Bray played against was NC and he stunk that one up.
If you're predicting 6-6 thinking that Bray doesn't get hurt then you think about as much of his abilities as I do.
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#280
#280
Seems like simply arguing there should be a 'college' in 'college football' makes one a Vandy fan.
 
#281
#281
Calling someone a Vandy fan is a straightforward, deliberate insult. Delete and ban.
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#282
#282
VKAman said:
Do you think he set our program back 10 years or that we should have just kept Fulmer? If so, you should probably stop thinking altogether.
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Fallacy of limited alternatives.

UT should have fired Fulmer as they did. UT should not have hired Kiffin. Together they set the program back considerably. Hard to say exactly how long at this point.

Kiffin's 09 class is hurt as much as Fulmer's 08 class at this point.... maybe more.
 
#284
#284
sjt18 said:
Fallacy of limited alternatives.

UT should have fired Fulmer as they did. UT should not have hired Kiffin. Together they set the program back considerably. Hard to say exactly how long at this point.

Kiffin's 09 class is hurt as much as Fulmer's 08 class at this point.... maybe more.
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I didn't create the limited alternatives. It's what I was quoting and answering.

Fulmer set us back one hell of a lot more than Kiffin did. The 2009 and 2008 classes aren't even close.
 
#285
#285
VKAman said:
I didn't create the limited alternatives. It's what I was quoting and answering.

Fulmer set us back one hell of a lot more than Kiffin did. The 2009 and 2008 classes aren't even close.
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Have to disagree with you on that comment. But Dooley has two recruiting classes in the fold now and working on his third.
 
#286
#286
sjt18 said:
Fallacy of limited alternatives.

UT should have fired Fulmer as they did. UT should not have hired Kiffin. Together they set the program back considerably. Hard to say exactly how long at this point.

Kiffin's 09 class is hurt as much as Fulmer's 08 class at this point.... maybe more.
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Agree with this.
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#287
#287
sjt18 said:
Fallacy of limited alternatives.

UT should have fired Fulmer as they did. UT should not have hired Kiffin. Together they set the program back considerably. Hard to say exactly how long at this point.

Kiffin's 09 class is hurt as much as Fulmer's 08 class at this point.... maybe more.
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You're giving Kiffin too much credit. He wasn't here long enough to "set the program back".
 
#289
#289
orangepridenation said:
Right, he was just here long enough to not help at all.
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That's false.

Regardless of your personal feelings for the man, he brought in quite a few talented starters.

He also had quite a few busts.

Imagine Tennessee with Bryce Petty under center instead of Tyler Bray.

Carson Anderson, Cody Pope and Kevin Revis starting on the OL.

Tyler Wolf at SS.

The way Kiffin left sucked but his leaving probably saved Tennessee from the NCAA.

If Dooley turns out to be a good hire, Kiffin is nothing but an afterthought.
 
#291
#291
justingroves said:
That's false.

Regardless of your personal feelings for the man, he brought in quite a few talented starters.

He also had quite a few busts.

Imagine Tennessee with Bryce Petty under center instead of Tyler Bray.

Carson Anderson, Cody Pope and Kevin Revis starting on the OL.

Tyler Wolf at SS.

The way Kiffin left sucked but his leaving probably saved Tennessee from the NCAA.

If Dooley turns out to be a good hire, Kiffin is nothing but an afterthought.
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I have absolutely nothing against the man personally.

I just don't see the possibility that the handfull of players he brought in who haven't been kicked off, arrested, or left might help us win 7 games next season as necessarily "helping" us or moving us forward per se. Am I grateful for the talent he brought in that is contributing? Yes, but in hindsight, and realizing that much of that class has fallen apart, I have a hard time believing we'd have been worse off had we hired anyone else and they ended up leaving after one year.
 
#292
#292
orangepridenation said:
I have absolutely nothing against the man personally.

I just don't see the possibility that the handfull of players he brought in who haven't been kicked off, arrested, or left might help us win 7 games next season as necessarily "helping" us or moving us forward per se. Am I grateful for the talent he brought in that is contributing? Yes, but in hindsight, and realizing that much of that class has fallen apart, I have a hard time believing we'd have been worse off had we hired anyone else and they ended up leaving after one year.
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The man can get talented guys interested in your school. He wasn't hired because he was a great X's and O's guy (he is a pretty good offensive mind imo), he was hired because he could go out and get the best players in the country to come to Tennessee.

He did that in his limited time here. He took a lot of questionable character guys in 09. The guys from the 2010 class he brought in have kept their noses clean.

I do believe Dooley has had a hand in that but Kiffin ran a pretty tight ship as far as discipline went.
 
#293
#293
justingroves said:
The man can get talented guys interested in your school. He wasn't hired because he was a great X's and O's guy (he is a pretty good offensive mind imo), he was hired because he could go out and get the best players in the country to come to Tennessee.

He did that in his limited time here. He took a lot of questionable character guys in 09. The guys from the 2010 class he brought in have kept their noses clean.

I do believe Dooley has had a hand in that but Kiffin ran a pretty tight ship as far as discipline went.
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Kiffin is a good salesman, I'll admit that. I just think all in all, with as much talent as he brought in, there was almost just as much that fell out. And, in my opinion, that's playing a large role in why expectations are still so relatively low for next year. I'll retract my previous comment about "anyone else could leave after a year and we'd be in the same boat", my main point was that under the current circumstances, we'd be in a better position had we hired someone else in 2008 obviously.

EDIT: *After 2008
 
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#294
#294
orangepridenation said:
Kiffin is a good salesman, I'll admit that. I just think all in all, with as much talent as he brought in, there was almost just as much that fell out. And, in my opinion, that's playing a large role in why expectations are still so relatively low for next year. I'll retract my previous comment about "anyone else could leave after a year and we'd be in the same boat", my main point was that under the current circumstances, we'd be in a better position had we hired someone else in 2008 obviously.
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Kiffin was a very bad hire and hiring him would have probably cost Hamilton his job by itself. And that really set our program back further than the one year he was here.
Face it, although Dooley is a good man, he was merely a "safe" hire after Kiffin left. No other big name coach we talked to would consider Tennessee when Hamilton was looking for a quick replacement for Kiffin. If Dooley hadn't been the son of Vince, nobody would have known who he was.
As long as Dooley runs a clean program we'll just need to be happy with where we're at. Winning championships at Tennessee is no longer an expectation.
 
#295
#295
blitzinbuc said:
kiffin was a very bad hire and hiring him would have probably cost hamilton his job by itself. And that really set our program back further than the one year he was here.
Face it, although dooley is a good man, he was merely a "safe" hire after kiffin left. No other big name coach we talked to would consider tennessee when hamilton was looking for a quick replacement for kiffin. If dooley hadn't been the son of vince, nobody would have known who he was.
As long as dooley runs a clean program we'll just need to be happy with where we're at. winning championships at tennessee is no longer an expectation.
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buuuuuuuullllllllllllshhhhhhheeeeeeeettttttt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#296
#296
blitzinbuc said:
Kiffin was a very bad hire and hiring him would have probably cost Hamilton his job by itself. And that really set our program back further than the one year he was here.
Face it, although Dooley is a good man, he was merely a "safe" hire after Kiffin left. No other big name coach we talked to would consider Tennessee when Hamilton was looking for a quick replacement for Kiffin. If Dooley hadn't been the son of Vince, nobody would have known who he was.
As long as Dooley runs a clean program we'll just need to be happy with where we're at. Winning championships at Tennessee is no longer an expectation.
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In hindsight, of course Kiffin was a bad hire. Which was the whole point of my post. Dooley worked for years under Saban, people knew who he was. In fact, had we hired him in 2009, it probably would've been received much better by our fan base than it ultimately was in 2010. And our program would more than likely already be in better shape. Winning championships will always be the ultimate expectation at Tennessee, as exhibited by the recent behavior of the fan base. Whether or not Dooley is a championship caliber coach won't change that at all.
 
#298
#298
every time i hear the name kiffin i wanna go eat a ton of mexican food and feed my toilet... can we please drop that name from any form of talk in the UT sports
 
#299
#299
orangepridenation said:
In hindsight, of course Kiffin was a bad hire. Which was the whole point of my post. Dooley worked for years under Saban, people knew who he was. In fact, had we hired him in 2009, it probably would've been received much better by our fan base than it ultimately was in 2010. And our program would more than likely already be in better shape. Winning championships will always be the ultimate expectation at Tennessee, as exhibited by the recent behavior of the fan base. Whether or not Dooley is a championship caliber coach won't change that at all.
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To the contrary, firing Fulmer the way it was done and bringing in an unknown like Dooley would have been catastrophic. Hamilton gambled on Kiffin and who all Kiffin promised to bring in. Hamilton erroneously "thought" bringing in Kiffin would pacify the people upset over the way he dismissed Fulmer. There were many people who told Hamilton he was making a mistake hiring Kiffin but Hamilton wouldn't listen. Hamilton had promised the people above him that he had a homerun hire in line, so after all the ones he had in mind turned him down, Hamilton bit into the Kiffin name. Nobody else was going to touch Kiffin even though Kiffin had applied for every job that was open. Even the slimebag Al Davis was right about Kiffin.
Anyway, after Kiffin cut and ran Hamilton couldn't find any recognizable coach who would even talk to him. These coaches saw how he did Fulmer, and they suspected NCAA problems forthcoming for Tennessee because of the Kiffin/Orgeron duo of dimwits. Plus, Hamilton got Dooley cheap.
As I said earlier, Dooley is a good person and seems to be doing many good things for the program. But he's not the homerun hire that will turn a program around in 2-3 years. Personally, I don't think Tennessee fans are willing to wait long enough for Dooley to have us in contention again.
 
#300
#300
blitzinbuc said:
To the contrary, firing Fulmer the way it was done and bringing in an unknown like Dooley would have been catastrophic. Hamilton gambled on Kiffin and who all Kiffin promised to bring in. Hamilton erroneously "thought" bringing in Kiffin would pacify the people upset over the way he dismissed Fulmer. There were many people who told Hamilton he was making a mistake hiring Kiffin but Hamilton wouldn't listen. Hamilton had promised the people above him that he had a homerun hire in line, so after all the ones he had in mind turned him down, Hamilton bit into the Kiffin name. Nobody else was going to touch Kiffin even though Kiffin had applied for every job that was open. Even the slimebag Al Davis was right about Kiffin.
Anyway, after Kiffin cut and ran Hamilton couldn't find any recognizable coach who would even talk to him. These coaches saw how he did Fulmer, and they suspected NCAA problems forthcoming for Tennessee because of the Kiffin/Orgeron duo of dimwits. Plus, Hamilton got Dooley cheap.
As I said earlier, Dooley is a good person and seems to be doing many good things for the program. But he's not the homerun hire that will turn a program around in 2-3 years. Personally, I don't think Tennessee fans are willing to wait long enough for Dooley to have us in contention again.
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K. :eek:k:

EDIT: quick edit, i hate being too big of an a-hole.
 
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