Dooley and his way of recruiting

#151
#151
JFizzle said:
Honestly... I think we all get dooped and have to realize these ratings are for public consumption, and the difference between classes might be one player that is a 5 star, and one that may never even step on the field in the long run. I agree that everyone needs to let things play out and see what this last class does on the field before we can crucify Dooley and say he can't recruit.
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Thank God! Some sensibility.
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#152
#152
JFizzle said:
Honestly... I think we all get dooped and have to realize these ratings are for public consumption, and the difference between classes might be one player that is a 5 star, and one that may never even step on the field in the long run. I agree that everyone needs to let things play out and see what this last class does on the field before we can crucify Dooley and say he can't recruit.
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And sometimes all it takes is that one 5* guy to make all the difference. Just like Cam Newton did with Auburn last year. Again, I'd still like to see somebody who says these recruiting rankings are BS try to explain why the teams that the rankings say are getting the best players are also the ones winning the championships, yet they still aren't to be trusted. At some point you have to admit they offer a pretty accurate big picture of college football recruiting.
 
#153
#153
If a team does not have off years in recruiting it should not have to make up for the off year with a top 5 class. A series of consecutive years assembling top 10% national talent should be enough to win.

I dont think the rankings are BS, but they are not perfect. That is why I feel a multi year average is a more accurate way to look at it.
 
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#154
#154
Wow couldn't agree with jfizzle & lawsonvfl more we've had top classes before & they didn't achieve, for any team it comes down to them being coached up. Its nice to have that top 5 class but in all honesty as long as your in that top 15 you can do damage, again as long as there being coached up, its gonna take another year or so to see if Dooley can do that. Jmo
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#155
#155
theutvolunteers said:
If a team does not have off years in recruiting it should not have to make up for the off year with a top 5 class. A series of consecutive years assembling top 10% national talent should be enough to win.
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Again, the data available from the last 10 years since detailed recruiting rankings have been kept on the internet clearly indicates that simply isn't what happens though. Why is it that you are so convinced that UT is now going to be the team that breaks the mold and wins championships while never bringing in top 10 talent? It hasn't happened yet in the BCS era.
 
#156
#156
bleedorange0037 said:
And sometimes all it takes is that one 5* guy to make all the difference. Just like Cam Newton did with Auburn last year. Again, I'd still like to see somebody who says these recruiting rankings are BS try to explain why the teams that the rankings say are getting the best players are also the ones winning the championships, yet they still aren't to be trusted. At some point you have to admit they offer a pretty accurate big picture of college football recruiting.
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Good observations! To the ones saying the rankings are BS then why does Dooley and his staff subscribe to them....so they can laugh and say how inaccurate they are?
Again I'll note that Dooley offered several of there 5* studs last year for a reason. They were his first choice and when he realized we weren't getting them he moved to choices B or C.
 
#157
#157
vol or die said:
Wow couldn't agree with jfizzle & lawsonvfl more we've had top classes before & they didn't achieve, for any team it comes down to them being coached up. Its nice to have that top 5 class but in all honesty as long as your in that top 15 you can do damage, again as long as there being coached up, its gonna take another year or so to see if Dooley can do that. Jmo
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If you're counting on Dooley's staff coaching up the talent we have to beat the better talent coached by Saban's, Chizik's, Petrino's, Miles' and Muschamp's staff, then you must believe in the tooth fairy.
 
#158
#158
vol or die said:
Wow couldn't agree with jfizzle & lawsonvfl more we've had top classes before & they didn't achieve, for any team it comes down to them being coached up. Its nice to have that top 5 class but in all honesty as long as your in that top 15 you can do damage, again as long as there being coached up, its gonna take another year or so to see if Dooley can do that. Jmo
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10 years worth of recruiting data say you're dead wrong.

@theutvolunteers: You say you think the 4 year average is more indicative, but IMO you can win a championship with one elite class. The thing that separates a top 5 class and a top 15 class is those 4-5 special players that are just head and shoulders above the other guys. You can go along getting good talent and then add those 5 special guys and go out and win a title. That's what UT is lacking when they sign classes in the 10-15 range. You may be getting some decent players, but you simply aren't getting that handful of special players that are going to get you over the hump.
 
#159
#159
LawsonVFL said:
Might want to check and see how much of a difference there is in classes 6-15. One recruit getting a 5 star over a 4 star rating can make a class jump several spots. Placing your faith in these "experts" with limited limited viewing capacity if the recruits is far from accurate. *see previous post about talent assessment. It's pointless. These rankings are the dumbest thing to put your faith in! And for those that are worried, a number 9 class, a number 12, and what is shaping up to be a top 5 for '13, is plenty enough talent to win a NC.
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We have zero commits for 2013. People said the same thing about this class ("Wait until Dooley has been here a year/wait until recruits can actually see his system on the field") and we're not any better off than last year.
 
#160
#160
bleedorange0037 said:
Again, the data available from the last 10 years since detailed recruiting rankings have been kept on the internet clearly indicates that simply isn't what happens though. Why is it that you are so convinced that UT is now going to be the team that breaks the mold and wins championships while never bringing in top 10 talent? It hasn't happened yet in the BCS era.
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Im not convinced of anything and know that every recent team that has won the SEC had a top 5 class. Im just curious about the multi year average.

That being said the last couple of years should give a nice base to get stability and some wins. The SEC doubtful, but get some more wins and then elite players are more likely to come IMO. There was no way Dooley would be able to have the Saban method Dooley was to unproven. Seems like he has a plan if it will work who knows.
 
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#161
#161
VKAman said:
We have zero commits for 2013. People said the same thing about this class ("Wait until Dooley has been here a year/wait until recruits can actually see his system on the field") and we're not any better off than last year.
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What are you talking about VKA? We're locked in a 120-way tie for first with our '13 class. :)
 
#162
#162
LawsonVFL said:
Look at Auburn! Didn't blow anybody away with their recruiting until they got the class with Cam. Even then, no one expected him to be what he was.
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2008 Florida
2006: 2nd
2007: 1st
2008: 3rd

2009 Alabama
2007: 10th (Saban's first couple months)
2008: 1st
2009: 1st

So yeah, we could always hope to stumble on one of the best college football players ever, Cam Newton-style (and have about 250K to spare), but aside from that we're eventually going to need to recruit at a championship level.
 
#163
#163
theutvolunteers said:
Im not convinced of anything and know that every recent team that has won the SEC had a top 5 class. Im just curious about the multi year average.

That being said the last couple of years should give a nice base to get stability and some wins. The SEC doubtful, but get some more wins and then elite players are more likely to come IMO. There was no way Dooley would be able to have the Saban method Dooley was to unproven. Seems like he has a plan if it will work who knows.
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How are we going to do that when there are 6 teams in the SEC that are clearly superior to us right now? That's why I thought Kiffin got the recruiting thing much more than Dooley seems to. You aren't going to be able to win games until you start bringing in talent that is better or at least comparable to what your rivals have. That's why his method of hyping up UT and making our brand more visible and "hip" in the eyes of the recruits was essential. For the time being we aren't capable of making any noise on the field, so you have to come up with some other method of drawing recruits attention, and DD simply doesn't seem like the kind of guy that's going to be able to do that.
 
#165
#165
bleedorange0037 said:
How are we going to do that when there are 6 teams in the SEC that are clearly superior to us right now? That's why I thought Kiffin got the recruiting thing much more than Dooley seems to. You aren't going to be able to win games until you start bringing in talent that is better or at least comparable to what your rivals have. That's why his method of hyping up UT and making our brand more visible and "hip" in the eyes of the recruits was essential. For the time being we aren't capable of making any noise on the field, so you have to come up with some other method of drawing recruits attention, and DD simply doesn't seem like the kind of guy that's going to be able to do that.
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You dont think our talent level is comparable to South Carolina or Arkansas? Because that is who we will have to beat first. According to the rankings we should have more talent than Arkansas and been ahead of Carolina too.

Yet, everyone thinks we get waxed by Arkansas. Im not sure of the prevailing opinion of Carolina.
 
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#167
#167
theutvolunteers said:
You dont think our talent level is comparable to South Carolina or Arkansas? Because that is who we will have to beat first. According to the rankings we should have more talent than Arkansas.
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Arkansas isn't as much of a factor because we don't play them every year. I don't know where USCjr is going to go in the coming years because who knows how long Spurrier will hang around, but for the time being they have one of the best QB's in the league as well as arguably the best RB and WR. Couple that with the fact that we almost have no defense right now, and we probably won't be beating them in 2011. Top to bottom our talent may very well be better. The big concerns are our main rivals that we play every year in UF, Bama and UGA. We aren't anywhere near their level right now.
 
#169
#169
Escape Goat said:
South Carolina has one of the better QB's in the SEC???????? Lol
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He's a 4 year starter in a league where solid experienced QB play is sorely lacking, so yeah, I'd say he's one of the better QB's in the conference. Who would you say is better?
 
#170
#170
bleedorange0037 said:
Arkansas isn't as much of a factor because we don't play them every year. I don't know where USCjr is going to go in the coming years because who knows how long Spurrier will hang around, but for the time being they have one of the best QB's in the league as well as arguably the best RB and WR. Couple that with the fact that we almost have no defense right now, and we probably won't be beating them in 2011. Top to bottom our talent may very well be better. The big concerns are our main rivals that we play every year in UF, Bama and UGA. We aren't anywhere near their level right now.
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Yes, but we have ranked higher than Ark and Carolina the past few years. Ark is a concern because we play them for the next two. Those should be the extra wins I was talking about.

I agree the main rivals will always recruit well. I think we have to beat a couple of the other mid tier teams before we get to that level. That does not mean we cant pull an upset before that time though.
 
#171
#171
VKAman said:
2008 Florida
2006: 2nd
2007: 1st
2008: 3rd

2009 Alabama
2007: 10th (Saban's first couple months)
2008: 1st
2009: 1st

So yeah, we could always hope to stumble on one of the best college football players ever, Cam Newton-style (and have about 250K to spare), but aside from that we're eventually going to need to recruit at a championship level.
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It's no surprise what direction Florida and Alabama's programs went with those kind of recruiting numbers.
 
#172
#172
theutvolunteers said:
Yes, but we have ranked higher than Ark and Carolina the past few years. Ark is a concern because we play them for the next two. Those should be the extra wins I was talking about.

I agree the main rivals will always recruit well. I think we have to beat a couple of the other mid tier teams before we get to that level. That does not mean we cant pull an upset before that time though.
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We rarely play well in Fayetteville, so I don't really see us going out there and winning this season. It's just a bad matchup for us anyway. They have the potential to have a dynamic offense, if Tyler Wilson plays anything like what we saw in his short time on the field last season, and we have the potential to have one of the worst defenses in the SEC.
 
#173
#173
So here's the 2010 Top 10 BCS rankings and their previous 3 recruiting rankings...

1. Auburn
2008: #20
2009: #19
2010: #4

2. TCU (#1 Defense in the country)
2008: Not listed in the top 50
2009: #46
2010: #46

3. Oregon (Just competed for a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP)
2008: #19
2009: #32
2010: #13

4. Stanford (Undefeated through most of the season)
2008: #50
2009: #20
2010: #26

5. Ohio State (We all see how character plays in to the mix)
2008: #4
2009: #3
2010: #25

6. Oklahoma (#1 Preseason without a top 5 class)
2008: #6
2009: #13
2010: #7

7. Wisconsin (Champions of the Big 10)
2008: #41
2009: #43
2010: Not Listed in the Top 50

8. LSU
2008: #11
2009: #2
2010: #6

9. Boise State (Not a Boise fan or supporter of this ranking, but the BCS has final say)
2008: Not Listed in the Top 50
2009: Not Listed in the Top 50
2010: Not Listed in the Top 50

10. Alabama
2008: #1
2009: #1
2010: #5

And where's Florida and Georgia? Same coach, same top tier recruiting classes?
 
#174
#174
blitzinbuc said:
If you're counting on Dooley's staff coaching up the talent we have to beat the better talent coached by Saban's, Chizik's, Petrino's, Miles' and Muschamp's staff, then you must believe in the tooth fairy.
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I give you Saban & Miles but Chizik is a joke he's nothing without Mulzahn & without Scam Newton & Fairley there 6-6/7-5, Arkansas is in that same mold although Petrino is a heck of a coach but there talent isn't so much better than ours just a lil more expereince. I'm not so delusional that I don't see the our talent is down but we have enough that we should've one 2 more games than we did I know can see that.
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#175
#175
LawsonVFL said:
So here's the 2010 Top 10 BCS rankings and their previous 3 recruiting rankings...

3. Oregon (Just competed for a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP by cheating)
2008: #19
2009: #32
2010: #13

And where's Florida and Georgia? Same coach, same top tier recruiting classes?
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Small FYP, and what's your point? Tennessee is never going to take the TCU route to the top 5.
 
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