Dooley '13 vs. Wrong Coach '13-'17

[HOLLYWOOD KOBE]

Bullet Points

*CDD looks to on life-support.

*Firing him is essentially "blowing it up" since any new coach means new coordinators (the D will be on their 4th in 5 seasons).

*It's very possible the dream candidates turn us down forcing Hart to scamper through non-BCS schools, or promote an ace coordinator (personally not in favor of on-the-job training since the HC demands at UT rival any major program and would be a lot for a first-timer to walk into).

*There will be blood, er attrition with #8,11,84 leading the way out.

*New coach walks in with 1-year honeymoon, at best, since the base is ravenous for wins.

*'13 starts out with a track-meet in Oregon, followed a weekend in Gainesville and a later one in Tuscaloosa. All with 1st-year starting QB.

*'14 1st-year starting QB has 4 or 5 new starters on the OL and the DL returns maybe 1-2 experienced starters.

What does all this add up to? While it's possible a new coach could come in and experience a dramatic improvement, the more likely result will be another rebuilding job of 6-7 win seasons, forcing us to wait 2-3 years before we can assess.

Not an endorsement of Dooley--I'm personally done if he can't beat Bama or SC--though I'm wary of what happens when a program falls into the revolving door of coaching hires. Let's not forget what Bama went through once Stallings retired and before Nick got there. Without them hitting the Powerball, they'd still be wandering through the graveyard, probably on their 7-8th hire in 20 years.

Go Vols

 

[Lexvol]

Bullet Points

*CDD looks to on life-support.

*Firing him is essentially "blowing it up" since any new coach means new coordinators (the D will be on their 4th in 5 seasons).

*It's very possible the dream candidates turn us down forcing Hart to scamper through non-BCS schools, or promote an ace coordinator (personally not in favor of on-the-job training since the HC demands at UT rival any major program and would be a lot for a first-timer to walk into).

*There will be blood, er attrition with #8,11,84 leading the way out.

*New coach walks in with 1-year honeymoon, at best, since the base is ravenous for wins.

*'13 starts out with a track-meet in Oregon, followed a weekend in Gainesville and a later one in Tuscaloosa. All with 1st-year starting QB.

*'14 1st-year starting QB has 4 or 5 new starters on the OL and the DL returns maybe 1-2 experienced starters.

What does all this add up to? While it's possible a new coach could come in and experience a dramatic improvement, the more likely result will be another rebuilding job of 6-7 win seasons, forcing us to wait 2-3 years before we can assess.

Not an endorsement of Dooley--I'm personally done if he can't beat Bama or SC--though I'm wary of what happens when a program falls into the revolving door of coaching hires. Let's not forget what Bama went through once Stallings retired and before Nick got there. Without them hitting the Powerball, they'd still be wandering through the graveyard, probably on their 7-8th hire in 20 years.

Go Vols

All of this underestimates the fact that we have a real AD now. People didn't want to work for Mike Hamilton. They knew he was on his last leg already.

 

[LebanonVolunteer]

I don't think we can look at coaching changes having anything to do with 8,11,84. If Dooley continues to lose ball games, they will leave just to get the hell out. If a new coach is hired they could possibly leave to avoid learning another system.

I personally think Bray being the sure starter for a new HC would be a toss up. Alot of coaches are not going to put up with a kid who does his own thing and does not seem to have the smarts to play QB at a high level.

I think Hunter is leaving no matter what happens. His having a child plays into his decision. His past injury would as well. CP did nothing last night to hurt his draft stock and alot to help it. I think he will have an NFL team already making him a promise to take him middle/late 1st round if he comes out. He will be gone.

 

[k-town_king]

The right coach may make the players stay and try to win.

Any winning coach or successful OC/DC would be a step up from DD's resume.

The right hire with a good recruiter could fill any gaps we have with good recruiting classes. Saban had 4 people total from UA drafted his first two years. He just brought in a bunch of his own talent quickly.

 

[tnktm]

Coach makes a difference - see Ole Miss. Don't necessarily have to go through years of anguish just because a change is made (but might - its a roll of the dice). New coach would have to re-recruit some players but not a given they all bolt. It might be time for a change but it is definitely not a cut and dried decision. It could sink Tennessee lower or it could start the come back. The ideal way would be to have the new coach picked out (to make sure you get a good one) before the old one is let go but that gets tricky. I think the Auburn AD got in trouble for that when he was shopping for a replacement for Tubberville.

 

[oregonvol]

I think the main thing we need to learn from all of this is that we have to hire the right coach this time. You can't stick with Dooley, because he's a loser, but for the sake of the program, you can't get it wrong again. This time, you have to spend until it hurts. This time you have to actually talk someone into it. No more pick up the phone and see who wants to come for the average SEC paycheck. No, this time you have to get out there and recruit a coach and spend real money.

 

[HOLLYWOOD KOBE]

I think the main thing we need to learn from all of this is that we have to hire the right coach this time. You can't stick with Dooley, because he's a loser, but for the sake of the program, you can't get it wrong again. This time, you have to spend until it hurts. This time you have to actually talk someone into it. No more pick up the phone and see who wants to come for the average SEC paycheck. No, this time you have to get out there and recruit a coach and spend real money.

I don't think $ is an issue. If the "big fish" said he'd come for X amount, Hart and the boosters would go get him the money. To me, there's just not a lot of proven commodities out there and fewer who would leave their program to rebuild in Knoxville. It doesn't help the applicant pool notices we pushed DD out after 3 seasons. While it's true everyone knows we live in an age of instant gratification, "big fish" prob won't want that sort of headache for a million or two more than they make where they are at.

And, it only adds to the pressure if you're paying a guy 5+mil and he's in a rebuilding situation...

 

[HOLLYWOOD KOBE]

All of this underestimates the fact that we have a real AD now. People didn't want to work for Mike Hamilton. They knew he was on his last leg already.

Enjoy your posts for the most part, but I have to disagree. I don't think MH would be a major part of the decision making for a coach. The mere fact that he's hiring him gives the coach a strong measure of security since it would appear their fates are intertwined.

 

[Lexvol]

Enjoy your posts for the most part, but I have to disagree. I don't think MH would be a major part of the decision making for a coach. The mere fact that he's hiring him gives the coach a strong measure of security since it would appear their fates are intertwined.

Disagreement is cool. I don't think UT is going to hire on the cheap this time around.

 

[Lexvol]

Enjoy your posts for the most part, but I have to disagree. I don't think MH would be a major part of the decision making for a coach. The mere fact that he's hiring him gives the coach a strong measure of security since it would appear their fates are intertwined.

Oh..and if you ever get a chance, ask Kiffy what he thinks of MH.

 

[UTK]

We get the big name coach whatever it takes. Period.

 

[LieutenantNeyland]

Bullet Points

*CDD looks to on life-support.

*Firing him is essentially "blowing it up" since any new coach means new coordinators (the D will be on their 4th in 5 seasons).

*It's very possible the dream candidates turn us down forcing Hart to scamper through non-BCS schools, or promote an ace coordinator (personally not in favor of on-the-job training since the HC demands at UT rival any major program and would be a lot for a first-timer to walk into).

*There will be blood, er attrition with #8,11,84 leading the way out.

*New coach walks in with 1-year honeymoon, at best, since the base is ravenous for wins.

*'13 starts out with a track-meet in Oregon, followed a weekend in Gainesville and a later one in Tuscaloosa. All with 1st-year starting QB.

*'14 1st-year starting QB has 4 or 5 new starters on the OL and the DL returns maybe 1-2 experienced starters.

What does all this add up to? While it's possible a new coach could come in and experience a dramatic improvement, the more likely result will be another rebuilding job of 6-7 win seasons, forcing us to wait 2-3 years before we can assess.

Not an endorsement of Dooley--I'm personally done if he can't beat Bama or SC--though I'm wary of what happens when a program falls into the revolving door of coaching hires. Let's not forget what Bama went through once Stallings retired and before Nick got there. Without them hitting the Powerball, they'd still be wandering through the graveyard, probably on their 7-8th hire in 20 years.

Go Vols

Pretty good post, I tend to agree with you. There are other teams who brought in a new coach and it worked out for the best..... but in all my years of watching TN we don't seem to ever get the ball to bounce out way! It would probably be more of the same for us.

 

[GoBigOrange98]

Why would Bray, CP and Hunter leave? If their goal is to make it to the NFL it is obvious they need to stay!! Why wouldn't they stay and play for a coach that could do that?

 

[HOLLYWOOD KOBE]

Oh..and if you ever get a chance, ask Kiffy what he thinks of MH.

Hamilton was at a USC practice not too long ago so I think he Lane are cool. MH knew he couldn't turn USC down; it's very possible the opportunity would have never presented itself again.

On the coaching change, as I stated there doesn't appear to be a lot of proven guy walking around out there who will be willing to jump into this skillet (most of those guys are already mulch-millionaires anyway). It's a lot more likely we'll have to hire a younger guy who is emerging into the sport. Gruden, Stoops, Belichik, etc won't take this job. And frankly, 2-3 years of under 9-win seasons, we'd be collectively ready to send them packing as well. It is what it is.

 

[HOLLYWOOD KOBE]

Why would Bray, CP and Hunter leave? If their goal is to make it to the NFL it is obvious they need to stay!! Why wouldn't they stay and play for a coach that could do that?

Hunter has already stated he's gone in so many words (he's a new father as well). Did you see that ball he dropped last night when he knew he was bout to get laid out? Pre-injury Justin makes that play 10/10 times. He's had enough of injuries and is ready to make millions.

CP's hype has nowhere to go but down if he continues producing like he is.

Bray is the most likely to come back, but he might be weary of learning a whole new Offense. His attitude might push him to move on and start getting paid for his services.

 

[HOLLYWOOD KOBE]

There are other teams who brought in a new coach and it worked out for the best..... .

In most of the examples I've seen a new coach gets the benefit of taking over a deep squad that was ready to break out. Zook left Urban tons of talent; Shula to Saban; Rodriguez to Hoke; Stewart to Holgerson; Cooper to Tressel, etc etc.

In our situation, the best players save 3-4 are about to bolt this year or next with only average recruits ready to step in. IMO, we'll be rebuilding for the next 2-3 years regardless who comes in, based solely on what they'll be forced to work with. That's why I need to see we're going to make a great hire more so based on the future as opposed to competing this year or next.

 

[salocke]

I think some greatly over estimate Dave Hart. He was second string at Bama (like Sunseri) and left Florida State in a mess. Personally, I think he did push Pat Summit out, although that would be a tough decision. Don't put it past Hart to think Kirby Smart (another Sabanite) is The Guy. If a coach from Tuscaloosa is going to fix UT, the guy is Saban himself.

 

[JacketVol]

We get the big name coach whatever it takes. Period.

I respect you as a poster so this is why I am asking you.

Who can we get at the end of this season who is really a good coach who will come here and help keep recruits and energize the fan base? Plenty of names but who is someone who would come for 4 mil a year? This is considering he knows he may only get three years himself and deal with insane expectations from a fan base that thinks it should win 10 plus games every year for the next twenty years.