Does Butch have a higher level of trust with these new coaches?

#27
#27
MiramarVol said:
Come on Cat. Really? I know you post for likes bit you know yoire wrong. Its the 1st day. He needed to get a feel forbhis staff and evaluate the new guys on the staff and obvserve how things were going. Its common sense. But with you sense aint common.
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Cats idea is highly probable.

You can be a great manager without having to be a great coach.

It is his best bet, cause he ain't a great coach.
 
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#28
#28
sjt18 said:
Do WHAT? There is no alignment with the "Dabo timeline". In his first 4 full seasons as CU HC, Swinney won the ACC twice and his division 3 times. This is after taking over for Tommy Bowden who had never won the ACC or the division... or more than 9 games in a season. There is MUCH more of a direct comparison to be made between T Bowden and CBJ. Hopefully UT won't take 10 years to take action.
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There were comparisons made at the end of last year. The term "clemsoning" was synonymous with Dabo, who wasn't considered a good hire when he was hired, went 3-3 as interim HC with a team that started the season #9, and was starting to get a pretty hot seat before 2012. The Clemson fans constantly complained about him not being able to win the games that matter and was nothing more than a good recruiter. That first 9 win season also had 5 losses, went 6-7 the following year and ended the next season 10-4 but got embarrassingly stomped when WVU dropped 70 pts on them in the bowl game.

Point is that it took him a while to hire the right coaches, step back, and let them do their job and then they took off from there. Or so the comparisons claimed.
 
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#29
#29
dcm3w said:
I think it's more of that he realizes he's on the hot seat. He can't keep pulling top 5 recruiting classes without being a top contender in the SEC, as well as not winning the east. His brilliant marketing strategies aren't going to fool anyone and that's why I think the coaching cliches and statements like "champions of life" will stop. He got by winning at his former schools with his philosophy/strategy but he knows the change is needed now more than ever. I respect CBJ for everything he has done for the program because he brought us back and has us legitimate threats. With that being said, he knows he can't have mediocrity with our fan base/boosters. I applaud him for his moves in the offseason, they were good moves (at least on paper). Now is your time Butch to step up.
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He only has 1 top 5 recruiting class his first five years here. Agree with everything else.
 
#30
#30
I've always thought that Butch was a great program manager and that he needed to surround himself with good people and let them do their jobs. I feel that way about most coaches. Look at what Fulmer did with good coordinators compared to his record without.

Butch has surrounded himself with a lot of experienced guys on this staff, even with his graduate assistant positions (I think they're called offensive and defensive analysts now).

Gerald Brown is the offensive analyst. He's the brother of Kippy Brown, for those who may not know, and he has college and NFL experience. I don't know if I've heard who the defensive analyst is? Has that hire been made?

Kevin Beard is probably one of the youngest guys on the staff but he's a high-energy guy, which I think players can sometimes relate to. Even so, Tony Sorrentino will help with the receivers. He has NFL experience with the Jaguars. From what understand, he basically coached the receivers in Jacksonville even though that wasn't his title.

And we all know about the experience of the other coaches: Hoke has been a head coach and DC; Shoop was a DC; Scott was an interim head coach; Warren was an associate head coach and DC; Canales has been an OC; Wells has been an OC; etc.

There's definitely a theme on this staff. Most of these guys have been around the block -- several times. I really do think this can be a good staff if Butch sticks to his strengths and let's these guys do their jobs.

We'll see.
 
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#31
#31
I almost forgot, Butch also talked about having coaches from the Charges and Saints in this week working out our players, which hasn't been done in a long time, he said.
 
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#32
#32
tnvols72 said:
Don't bring the poor guy off his high. If he wants to believe that Butch is an elite recruiter then let him.
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Haha you guys are ruthless. I was actually using "top 5" as an exaggeration of knowing he can't keep selling the same pitch. Obviously, I know he hasn't gotten all top 5 classes. His first offseason and last year for sure. Although, didn't we have a number 7 class or something one year?
 
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#33
#33
eskimovol said:
There were comparisons made at the end of last year. The term "clemsoning" was synonymous with Dabo, who wasn't considered a good hire when he was hired, went 3-3 as interim HC with a team that started the season #9,
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Yeah. He took over after Bowden completely lost the team and finished the season. He then won 9 games the very next year and his division. He stumbled his second full year and there was some grumbling but immediately righted the ship. He's won at least 10 games in each seasons since. That is NOTHING like what Jones has done. Jones has squandered the best two chances UT has had in several years to win the East these past two years.
and was starting to get a pretty hot seat before 2012.
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Not really. But even if you believe that... his response was COMPLETELY unlike what Jones did this past season.

The Clemson fans constantly complained about him not being able to win the games that matter and was nothing more than a good recruiter.
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Really? Who did that?

That first 9 win season also had 5 losses,
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Yes... one of them being the conference championship game.

went 6-7 the following year and ended the next season 10-4 but got embarrassingly stomped when WVU dropped 70 pts on them in the bowl game.
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And.... a conference championship.

Point is that it took him a while to hire the right coaches, step back, and let them do their job and then they took off from there. Or so the comparisons claimed.
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Jones MAY have figured it out. Maybe he's "grown" and realized that what made him a "great" coach against poor competition doesn't work in the SEC. But his performance to date bears very little similarity to Swinney's through 4 full seasons.
 
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#34
#34
GAVol said:
Hopefully he's evolved a little. I've never thought screaming at players was particularly effective.
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I prefer a teaching approach. When your roster fails to execute on film what you've taught, you re teach and discipline till they do.
 
#36
#36
If he wins 4- 5 games this year he's 100% fired so that isn't exactly true. How do you keep him with that record?
 
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#37
#37
sjt18 said:
Really? Who did that?
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Their fans and media people, Clemson fans were always complaining about everything except recruiting with Dabo. I lived there then and most of the calls on 107.5 were Clemson fans complaining. You can keep throwing saying 9 wins, 10, etc but Clemson choked hard multiple games a year for years. Yes he got Clemson to the ACC championship twice, also really only had to worry about FSU. For instance, one of the years Wake forest was #2 in their division as a 6-7 team.

For instance Jim McElwain was listed in some article saying his seat was getting warm, this in spite of him winning the East twice. The notion that Florida has walked backwards into the SEC Championship has been much more common than them earning it.imo On the Butch/Dabo comparisons, I don't think they were trying to say Butch is as good as Dabo but were trying make the case that it's not too late for Butch.
 
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#40
#40
Fingers said:
Yesterday Butch was quieter than normal. There was no screaming and he wasn't walking around with a mic as he normally does. Daniel Lewis said "he was as quiet as I've ever heard on the practice field."

Higher trust factor with this staff?

Maturity as a coach?

Or simply taking it all in on the first day of practice?
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Laryngitis.
 
#42
#42
As someone who lived in Columbia from 2011-2015, I can vouch for this. Many of their fans wanted him gone every year, and losing to USC for them was like losing to Florida every year for us. Personally amazed they kept him around long enough to succeed (and hope Butch can follow that same pattern, but we'll see).

sjt18 said:
Yeah. He took over after Bowden completely lost the team and finished the season. He then won 9 games the very next year and his division. He stumbled his second full year and there was some grumbling but immediately righted the ship. He's won at least 10 games in each seasons since. That is NOTHING like what Jones has done. Jones has squandered the best two chances UT has had in several years to win the East these past two years.
Not really. But even if you believe that... his response was COMPLETELY unlike what Jones did this past season.

Really? Who did that?

Yes... one of them being the conference championship game.

And.... a conference championship.


Jones MAY have figured it out. Maybe he's "grown" and realized that what made him a "great" coach against poor competition doesn't work in the SEC. But his performance to date bears very little similarity to Swinney's through 4 full seasons.
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#43
#43
sjt18 said:
Yeah. He took over after Bowden completely lost the team and finished the season. He then won 9 games the very next year and his division. He stumbled his second full year and there was some grumbling but immediately righted the ship. He's won at least 10 games in each seasons since. That is NOTHING like what Jones has done. Jones has squandered the best two chances UT has had in several years to win the East these past two years.
Not really. But even if you believe that... his response was COMPLETELY unlike what Jones did this past season.

Really? Who did that?

Yes... one of them being the conference championship game.

And.... a conference championship.


Jones MAY have figured it out. Maybe he's "grown" and realized that what made him a "great" coach against poor competition doesn't work in the SEC. But his performance to date bears very little similarity to Swinney's through 4 full seasons.
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The lengths you will go to. Lol
 
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#44
#44
Power T-Rev said:
The lengths you will go to. Lol
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The cake was when he was preaching one of his unilateral sermons about Butch never outcoaching a team with superior talent, and when confronted with SC in 2013 couldn't even admit exceptions to his rule or outliers...just stated that Tennessee was more talented. :lol:
 
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#45
#45
This could have been a good conversation but turned into the same old comments for some.

I hope that those you work with, your friends / family have enough respect for you that when you don't do something as well as they think you should - they don't beat you to a pulp and leave you on the road for dead just because they can. Then again, for some of you, maybe it would be appropriate - others treat you as you treat them.
 
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#46
#46
He dropped a lot of the mic stuff after some private conversations.

He's willing to change, which is a plus. Hopefully moving past gimmicks.
Also has a more vocal and motivating staff.
 
#47
#47
eskimovol said:
Their fans and media people, Clemson fans were always complaining about everything except recruiting with Dabo.
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I have heard this claimed so please don't take it personal... but I would like to see something more than your say so before accepting this as fact.

I lived there then and most of the calls on 107.5 were Clemson fans complaining.
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So your anecdotal, undocumented experience is your proof?

I remember hearing some grumbling but the guy wasn't in any real trouble. He would have been if he'd laid an egg like Jones did this year in that third full year.... but he didn't do that.

You can keep throwing saying 9 wins, 10, etc but Clemson choked hard multiple games a year for years. p
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Which ones? Jones has "choked hard multiple games"... and hasn't produced the wins or championships.

Yes he got Clemson to the ACC championship twice, also really only had to worry about FSU. For instance, one of the years Wake forest was #2 in their division as a 6-7 team.
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That would hold a little water if Jones reason for not making the game was losing games that should have been lost. 2015- chokes against an inferior Arkansas team and a beaten UF team kept UT out of ATL. This past year is even worse. The difference between winning the East and limping in 3rd... were losses to the two worst teams in the SEC.

For instance Jim McElwain was listed in some article saying his seat was getting warm, this in spite of him winning the East twice. The notion that Florida has walked backwards into the SEC Championship has been much more common than them earning it.imo On the Butch/Dabo comparisons, I don't think they were trying to say Butch is as good as Dabo but were trying make the case that it's not too late for Butch.
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No one really knows if it is too late for Jones until he's fired or it has become a foregone conclusion that he will be. But there is NO case to be made that it isn't too late by comparing him to Swinney. NONE.

The way you began this paragraph is pretty explicit proof of that. McElwain backed into winning the East and is on a warm seat at UF. Whose failure allowed him to do that? If UF is unhappy with a coach who "backed into" winning the East... what does that say about their standard compared to UT's where many argue that the guy who couldn't win the East those two years should be safe?
 
#49
#49
Ostrich said:
As someone who lived in Columbia from 2011-2015, I can vouch for this. Many of their fans wanted him gone every year, and losing to USC for them was like losing to Florida every year for us. Personally amazed they kept him around long enough to succeed (and hope Butch can follow that same pattern, but we'll see).
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Most of my in-laws are from SC so I'm very aware of that rivalry. Swinney lost to USCe with Spurrier as coach at the peak of their program's history.

That's kind of different then being o-fer against Muschamp plus another loss during UF's lowest ebb in many years... much less last year's USCe game vs Muschamp. You REALLY have to question the ability of a coach that is 0-3 vs Will Muschamp.

The "perfect storm" that finally gave Jones a win over UF was UT's most talented roster in over 10 years... and UF operating with for them a subpar roster.
 
#50
#50
volfan102455 said:
This could have been a good conversation but turned into the same old comments for some.

I hope that those you work with, your friends / family have enough respect for you that when you don't do something as well as they think you should - they don't beat you to a pulp and leave you on the road for dead just because they can. Then again, for some of you, maybe it would be appropriate - others treat you as you treat them.
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Who proposed anything of the sort for Jones?

Jones is a VERY well paid football coach with a golden parachute if he gets fired. He is paid to win. He is paid to win the East and compete for the SEC. He's had opportunities to do so... and has failed. He has failed at times in ways that seriously call his abilities as a coach into question.

I'm not sure what you do or who you do it for... but my company fires managers and commercial reps that don't "win".
 
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