Does Abortion SUBSTANTIALLY Reduce Crime, Baloney

#1

OrangeEmpire

The White Debonair
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#1
Paper

Article

Research paper


First, following the Roe vs. Wade decision in 1973, more women at risk of having children who could later engage in criminal activity––teen-agers

The operative word here is "could" later engage in criminal activity. The fact is they do not know for sure if they "would" later engage in criminal activity, do not know for sure what percentage would later engage in criminal activity, are ASSUMING some, or some significant number WOULD engage in criminal activity, and therefore, their conclusion is pure speculation.

As evidence for their findings, the researchers point to data regarding the timing of the crime drop:

Yes this is called a "correlation." From this correlation they draw causation. It is fallacious to draw causation from correlation. What reasoning do they rely upon to go from correlation to causation?

As evidence for their findings, the researchers point to data regarding the timing of the crime drop: the first generation of pregnancies terminated under legalized abortion would have otherwise resulted in children who reached the peak ages for criminal activity, 18 to 24, in the early 1990s. Increases in 1970s abortions by high-risk mothers may have lowered the number of potential criminals coming of age in the 1990s.

Oh yes this glorious reasoning. The "after X, therefore, because of X," fallacious reasoning, AKA post hoc, ergo propter hoc (Latin translation, after this, therefore, because of this). Here, the researchers assert since the drop in crime occurred AFTER legalized abortion, then legalized abortion must be the cause. Well this is fallacious reasoning as it assumes it is nothing more than a correlation, as expressed above, and are relying upon nothing more than since X came after Y, then X must be because of Y. This is erroneous, speculative, and fallacious.


In fact they use language indicate they are "speculating." Increases in 1970s abortions by high-risk mothers may have lowered the number of potential criminals coming of age in the 1990s.


I want to emphasize the following three words of, "may have lowered ."

by high-risk mothers

Well I would be most interested in reading the criteria for identifying a "high risk mother," in other words a mother which is at a high risk for giving birth to a future criminal deviant. Do they rely upon the trusted, tried, and true phrenology? The article is entirely devoid of any criteria relied upon to determine which mothers were at a "high risk" for birthing criminal deviants.

Happy reading!
 
#2
#2
Some interesting reads concerning this. Freakonomics makes the case that since murder rates have dropped off so drastically in the examined time frame, then abortions have led to crime reduction. However, On Killing shows an interesting correlation between aggravated assaults and murders during the same time frame, using the term aggravated assault to only apply to crimes in which the intent was to kill or mame. As murders dropped, aggravated assaults rose astronomically. This leads one to believe that the drop in murder rates might owe itself to the rise in medical technology and response rates.
 
#3
#3
i am pro-choice (not pro-abortion, i guess i am more situational pro-choice) and this is the dumbest argument i have ever seen. although i am quite sure the first thing on every woman's mind when she has an abortion is "i'm doing my part to stop the violence"
 
#4
#4
Well, you can expect more arguments like this in years to come, as the Pro-Choice side must always actively recruit constituents. People who are Pro-Choice tend to have the following amount of kids: 0,1, or 2. Those who are Pro-Life tend to have 3,4,5,6,7,8,9, and 10 kids. Simple math shows that the Choice side must push its message through any and all avenues in order to recruit a lot of the kids from the Pro-Life side.
 
#5
#5
you would think by the time you hit 10 you might lean pro-choice :)

sorry if that is completely inappropriate
 
#6
#6
i do understand what you are saying though, like i said though, there are the hard pro-choicers, and then there are those like me. in certain situations i have no beef, in others i don't know what the potential parent(s) is thinking.
 
#9
#9
10? Try something a little lower...if you have kids you'd know what I'm talking about.
 
#10
#10
Some interesting reads concerning this. Freakonomics makes the case that since murder rates have dropped off so drastically in the examined time frame, then abortions have led to crime reduction. However, On Killing shows an interesting correlation between aggravated assaults and murders during the same time frame, using the term aggravated assault to only apply to crimes in which the intent was to kill or mame. As murders dropped, aggravated assaults rose astronomically. This leads one to believe that the drop in murder rates might owe itself to the rise in medical technology and response rates.

or the fact that American youth are too lazy to get off the couch and work-out those all important beat down muscle groups.
 
#12
#12
10? Try something a little lower...if you have kids you'd know what I'm talking about.
My father had 9 siblings, his father had 9 siblings, my father-in-law has 11 siblings, and my wife and I were married on a premise of fielding our own baseball team...
 
#14
#14
Thanks for the family history....you missed the point.
You specifically tried to call me out on my desire to have 10 kids, so I answered with my family history. If you don't want that, then don't type crap like this...
if you have kids you'd know what I'm talking about.
Anyway, my point stands. Pro-life proponents have more children than Pro-Choice proponents. Therefore, Pro-Lifers will eventually breed the Pro-Choice contingent out.
 
#15
#15
Anyway, my point stands. Pro-life proponents have more children than Pro-Choice proponents. Therefore, Pro-Lifers will eventually breed the Pro-Choice contingent out.

Obviously, we are talking about behavioral issues. People form their own beliefs and opinions as they pass through life.
 
#16
#16
Obviously, we are talking about behavioral issues. People form their own beliefs and opinions as they pass through life.
I have to say that I still believe that parents have the most say in the beliefs of their children. Maybe 20% or less children stray from their parents core beliefs. Again though, that still favors the Pro-Life contingent, numbers wise, as the years pass.
 
#17
#17
I have to say that I still believe that parents have the most say in the beliefs of their children. Maybe 20% or less children stray from their parents core beliefs. Again though, that still favors the Pro-Life contingent, numbers wise, as the years pass.


Pro-Life here. Only one kid of my own. Just turned 4. Considering Pro-Choice at this point!:whistling: Just kidding. You don't know what will turn out of your kids, and what you could be taking away from this country, or mankind in general. A man (Well gifted heart specialist) gave a testimony at my parents church of a child to be born who the doctors advised abortion. Said it would never be normal or have a decent life. He thanked his mom for going through with the birth.
 
#18
#18
I first do not believe that abortion cuts down on crime....its like saying we are aborting "the bad kids"....that is recidious.....abortion is murder...that is a crime.
 
#19
#19
I first do not believe that abortion cuts down on crime....its like saying we are aborting "the bad kids"....that is recidious.....abortion is murder...that is a crime.
I get your point, but, statistically speaking, abortion absolutely has to reduce crime, as recidious as that might sound.
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#20
#20
Well, you can expect more arguments like this in years to come, as the Pro-Choice side must always actively recruit constituents. People who are Pro-Choice tend to have the following amount of kids: 0,1, or 2. Those who are Pro-Life tend to have 3,4,5,6,7,8,9, and 10 kids. Simple math shows that the Choice side must push its message through any and all avenues in order to recruit a lot of the kids from the Pro-Life side.

The error to your logic is that this is a constitutional issue rather than a vote by the people. Which is why we are a Republic and not a Democracy (mob rule).
 
#21
#21
Well, you can expect more arguments like this in years to come, as the Pro-Choice side must always actively recruit constituents. People who are Pro-Choice tend to have the following amount of kids: 0,1, or 2. Those who are Pro-Life tend to have 3,4,5,6,7,8,9, and 10 kids. Simple math shows that the Choice side must push its message through any and all avenues in order to recruit a lot of the kids from the Pro-Life side.

That assumes that all the kids take the same views as their parents, which is an unwarranted assumption. Done.
 
#22
#22
Hey Georgef, how deep down in the archives did you dig to find this jewel of a thread? You must be bored out of your mind!
 

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