do you guys remember

#26
#26
hndog609 said:
You can't possibly mean the same Lewis that rushed for over 1300yds and had 232 rushing attempts (#6 EVER) his Fr year?

I know, I know, "the FL game" but when you look at the stats above it still comes off looking kinda weak as a way to "prove" Fulmer wouldn't play Fr.
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Uh... yeah... that 1300 yard rusher was sitting on the bench in the biggest regular season game of the year. You've proved my point again. That is the best example of fulmer not playing FR early enough. We had absolutely no rushing threat in that game...
 
#29
#29
General Jack said:
Uh... yeah... that 1300 yard rusher was sitting on the bench in the biggest regular season game of the year. You've proved my point again. That is the best example of fulmer not playing FR early enough. We had absolutely no rushing threat in that game...
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Don't know what to tell you. If you want to insist on using the #3 yardage season and the #6 most rushing attempts in a season in Vol history can still be used to make a point about not playing Fr...even with the above acheived by a Fr...I'm just not getting it.

If it works for you to point at one game and go "See, there's proof" and it works for you so be it. I can't look at Lewis's Fr season and say the argument sticks in light of all the carries and yards.
 
#31
#31
hndog609 said:
Don't know what to tell you. If you want to insist on using the #3 yardage season and the #6 most rushing attempts in a season in Vol history can still be used to make a point about not playing Fr...even with the above acheived by a Fr...I'm just not getting it.

If it works for you to point at one game and go "See, there's proof" and it works for you so be it. I can't look at Lewis's Fr season and say the argument sticks in light of all the carries and yards.
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Can you look at the '97 florida game and say "Gee, maybe we would have had a better chance at winning had our future All-American, future NFL Player of the Year not sat on the bench that day?"

I'm not arguing that fulmer didn't play J Lewis as a freshman, that would be a hard point to support as you've noted. The point I'm making is regarding not playing freshman early enough. The J Lewis example is aggravating to this day for many of us, including myself.
 
#33
#33
Phil had actually started to come around later in years ironically. Despite his stubbornness and other short-comings, playing Ainge and Schaeffer as FR in 2004 was really a break from the mold.
 
#34
#34
joevol320 said:
he didn't start that many games until mid season. i just remember the outcry that people had because fulmer wouldn't play him.
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Actually, he started every game in 07 except for the opener, and he was in on the first drive in that game.
 
#35
#35
General Jack said:
Can you look at the '97 florida game and say "Gee, maybe we would have had a better chance at winning had our future All-American, future NFL Player of the Year not sat on the bench that day?"

I'm not arguing that fulmer didn't play J Lewis as a freshman, that would be a hard point to support as you've noted. The point I'm making is regarding not playing freshman early enough. The J Lewis example is aggravating to this day for many of us, including myself.
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If phrased in the manner you do here it's a much more rational argument. And "early enough" is by what? One game? Please realize I've never argued it wouldn't have been nice to have seen Lewis in that game but it always weirds me out how people can look at that one game and think it somehow proves Fulmer wouldn't play Fr. And I mean use that phrase or it's analogue, "Fulmer wouldn't play underclassman". It's demonstrably false.

I'll also add it's a monumental assumption to try to say playing Lewis would have won us the game anyway. I'm not saying you're making that argument, just that I've heard others that basically have.
 
#36
#36
General Jack said:
Phil had actually started to come around later in years ironically. Despite his stubbornness and other short-comings, playing Ainge and Schaeffer as FR in 2004 was really a break from the mold.
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So he started doing what the fans were crying about and it lead to his demise? :eek:hmy:
 
#37
#37
General Jack said:
Phil had actually started to come around later in years ironically. Despite his stubbornness and other short-comings, playing Ainge and Schaeffer as FR in 2004 was really a break from the mold.
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You realize that, for instance, C Clausen had almost 1500yds as a Fr and nearly 3000 as a So.
 
#39
#39
ptclaus98 said:
Didn't it take us going 1-3 or something for him to get his shot, though?
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My memory isn't that good. My point is that you have to parse the argument so many people make to equivocate like that. They will make some straight up statement like "Fulmer won't/wouldn't play underclassmen" and then when people start citing example after example it ends up as some variation of "Well, yeah, but...".

If somebody wanted to say something like "Fulmer wasn't exactly the most willing coach in the world to throw the underclassman out there." then that at least has a little traction. Still, if people sat down and poured over everybody that played during the Fulmer era I really think most would be surprised by how many times they'd find themselves going "Oh yeah, I'd forgot about that guy playing as a Fr/So".

As stated earlier somebody had already made a list of notable underclassman players. Wish I'd copied it.
 
#40
#40
ptclaus98 said:
Didn't it take us going 1-3 or something for him to get his shot, though?
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No, it took him recovering from the shoulder/elbow tendonitis that kept him out the late part of fall camp and limited him until the second week of the season. Then, yes, it took two games for him to catch up on learning and executing the offense. Once he did, the job was his.
 
#41
#41
hndog609 said:
You realize that, for instance, C Clausen had almost 1500yds as a Fr and nearly 3000 as a So.
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Yes, he played well as a freshman. That is, after sitting on the bench while we suffered through AJ Suggs and Joey Mathews getting us off to bad start.
 
#44
#44
General Jack said:
Yes, he played well as a freshman. That is, after sitting on the bench while we suffered through AJ Suggs and Joey Mathews getting us off to bad start.
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See my post above. He wasn't just sitting, he was injured. Revisionist history is tough when facts get in the way.
 
#46
#46
General Jack said:
He was out for the first 2, took over starting at the midpoint of the season. Who's revising history?
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Again, did you read my posts? He missed the last two+ weeks of fall camp and the first two weeks of the season. He wasn't going to pick up the playbook and win right away. He played well in situations until he was physically ready to start.

Fulmer said at the time that if he had been healthy he probably would have been the guy from day one. But you can't take a freshman from the training room to the starting job overnight.
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#47
#47
joevol320 said:
when Berry was freshman and fulmer would not play him. it took weeks of outcry towards fulmer to play the guy and he finally did. i always think back to that whenever i hear Kiffin talk about the freshman play this year.
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no, eric almost started playing immediately. He was playing at CB since the opener (which was where he was when he picked off tebow).

Now he didn't end up at safety till a few weeks later due to injuries there and depth problems...perhaps that's what confused you
 
#48
#48
joevol320 said:
he didn't start that many games until mid season. i just remember the outcry that people had because fulmer wouldn't play him.
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the outcry was about him playing on offense (or kick return), but he was starting at CB before the UF game
 
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