Do We Have the Talent?

#26
#26
Unforutunately, games arent played with the number of *'s received before they played one college football game. That list has a lot of busts and underachievers. The other problem is that our sophmore class is really thin and our freshman class is still up in the air.

Also, if we did lists like that for Lsu, Bama, Uga, and Uf they would have more 4* and 5* players. Its not that we dont have any talent, its that the other teams have more talent.
 
#28
#28
Stafford is definitely leaving. Top 5 Pick. I think we really do have a chance to win the East. Monte is inheriting a very good defense. With the staff Kiffin has assembled already, our offense should be better. A Stregnth Coach should make our OL tougher and a RB coach who has produced several 1000 yd rushers. I think we will run the ball much better than last year. Plus we don't have to watch Arian Foster crawl through the line of scrimmage. His slow arse only played because he was Foolmur's favorite.
 
#29
#29
BeecherVol said:
On paper.
Development of these players is in question, to this point.
Click to expand...

I agree, Eric berry aside, few players have come to Ut recently and have taken their game to the next level.
The rebound of the recievers in 2006, Meachem , Swain was the last time I remember a group making a move. Of course it took the firing of their position coach to get them there, as well as Trooper taylor and his youthful exuberance.
Perhaps it is just a general feeling I have, but I think Kiffin opening up the positions to make players compete on the feild and thus pushing them during the off season will be a good thing. like Saban, playing the young guys gives you depth and expierance in a year or two, and makes the vet's keep pushing themselves. as well as being a great recruiting tool. Come here and you will play if you are good enough.
 
#30
#30
knucklehead_vol said:
govols182 said:
I think a reasonable goal for this season would be 8-9 wins.[/QUOT

what losses do you think we'll have? i have us losing two...florida and alabama.
Click to expand...

I think we could beat the Gators next year... Especially if Tebow takes off for the NFL after this year. If they win the BCS Championship, he may bail for the pros. I say this because I'm hearing rumors that Roger Goodell is trying to cap how much rookies can make on their first contract like they did in the NBA. With that being said, we may see an awful lot of JR's headed to the NFL during next years draft.
Click to expand...
 
#31
#31
If ýou guys want the honest truth. Based on talent not production our vols are more talented as a whole than the Bama team that had one loss this past year. We won't lose to Bama this coming year. Also if Tebow leaves we'll beat Florida.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#32
#32
I can't believe I am saying this, but I almost hope Tebow stays. From what I can tell Monte loves a swarming defense. If he can put one together for next year I bet Tebow thinks twice about running after getting buried under a bunch of orange jerseys a few times. I doubt we would beat them next year if he stays but it would be satisfying to see him get smacked around a bit.
 
#34
#34
govols182 said:
With a lot of posts saying Tennessee doesn't have the talent to compete for a couple of years I decided to check and see what kind of players we have on our team for Kiffin to work with.

SR's:
Wes Brown 4*
Jonathon Cromptom 4*:unsure: Top 100
Montario Hardesty 4* Top 100
Andre Mathis 4*
Rico McCoy 4* Top 100
Josh McNeil 4* Top 100 #1 C
Demetrice Morley 5* Top 100 #1 DB
Malcolm Rawls 4*
Chris Scott 4* Top 100
Jaques McClendon 4*

JR's:
Ramone Johnson 4*
Eric Berry 5* Top 100 #1 DB
Lennon Creer 4* Top 100
Gerald Jones 4* Top 100
Ben Martin 5* Top 100
Brent Vinson 5* Top 50(Prep)
Chris Walker 4*
Gerald Williams 4*

SOPH:
BJ Coleman 4*
Chris Donald 5* Top 100 #1 MLB
Donald Langley 4*
Ahmad Paige 4*

Frosh:
EJ Abrams-Ward 4*
Aaron Douglas 4*
Marlon Walls 4* Top 50(Prep)
Jerod Askew 4* Top 100
Eric Gordon 4*
DJ Hunter 4*
David Oku 4* Top 100 #1 APB
Jer'on Stokes 4* Top 100
Damien Thigpen 4*

Doesn't include some of the sleeper players we've had over the years such as Dennis Rogan, Jeff Cottam, Vlad Richard, Dan Williams, Kevin Cooper, and Denarius Moore.

31/85 scholarship players are 4* or 5*.
Click to expand...

Yes, the talent argument was nothing more than the go to excuse for the Fulmer believers. While it might have been their most logical argument of all, it was completely baseless in fact.
 
#35
#35
speed over size is what we'll be seeing with monte which may target different lineman than chavis had. we obviously have talent, it just needs to be capitalized. with decent coaching there is no excuse to have more than 3 losses next year. agreed?
 
#36
#36
Volsfan4243 said:
Chavis is a very good DC. He just doesn't like to hit the recruiting trail but he puts LB's in the NFL. .
Click to expand...

Chavis was not a very good DC... he was a good position coach. He NEVER stopped a quality OC because he was a better DC. I never saw him make effective or timely adjustments.

I am far more glad that he's gone than CPF. One of the most impressive things CLK has done is dismiss Chavis from the start.

Fulmer's fatal flaw was the power of his personal loyalties to guys who couldn't get the job done like Chavis, Sanders, and numerous players.
 
#37
#37
Tebow aint going nowhere, he aint going pro, he aint going junior pro. He is coming back for his senior season with the Florida Gators, then after that he and his life partner Tony Joiner are going to go to Somalia & neighboring countries and spread Christianity & circumcision for the & those in need
 
Last edited:
#38
#38
knucklehead_vol said:
i agree with the first and second, but moreno or uga doesn't bother me, and moreno will probably be wondering where berry is when he is in the back field. he won't ever forget that hit.
Click to expand...

I seriously doubt he remembers that hit. :birgits_giggle:
 
#39
#39
Cant see Tennessee losing a home game...especially if Uga loses Stafford..nor Auburn they should have throttled Auburn THIS year..

9-3 ...10-2..
 
#40
#40
So, if the talent is there then we should win the SEC next year.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If "the talent is there we need to fire Fulmer we are losing because he can't coach" is true then the new coach should be able to win immediately.

I personally hope Kiffen does great next season, and I won't be calling for his head if he doesn't but if the same standards are applied then we should.
 
#41
#41
I think development on the D side has been pretty good. We finish with the #4 rated D in the country with an offense that did everything they could to make it even MORE difficult and we're underacheiving? How? This was a major bowl defense with a no bowl offense, let's not get carried away placing blame where it doesn't belong.

As for that offense IMO we are waaaaaay downplaying our QB woes. I we brought back Pickens, Meachem, Gault & Witten I don't think production would have gone up significantly. The best guns in the world are just clubs without ammo and naming off players with stars takes a real beating if their talent is wasted trying to prop up poor QB play.

Others may disagree but I believe if Ainge had come back this year we lose, at most, three games, and are much more competetive in losing. Same coaching, same everything else. That position is THAT big a difference.
 
#42
#42
hndog, I'd like to see what any one of those guys could have done behind an OL that did something... anything consistently. They weren't consistently good at any single thing. Not zone blocking... m2m... short pass.... long route... screen....

If one of those well regarded QB's had played badly then I'd be with you in dropping it at their feet. But that wasn't the case. All made mistakes but all looked worse because they played behind a poor OL.
 
#43
#43
sjt18 said:
hndog, I'd like to see what any one of those guys could have done behind an OL that did something... anything consistently. They weren't consistently good at any single thing. Not zone blocking... m2m... short pass.... long route... screen....

If one of those well regarded QB's had played badly then I'd be with you in dropping it at their feet. But that wasn't the case. All made mistakes but all looked worse because they played behind a poor OL.
Click to expand...

Poor line play does no QB any favors, no argument there. Having said that, I'm talking about what they made of the opportunities they DID have. There wasn't always somebody breathing down their necks and I still came away very unimpressed. I'm sure you've seen guys that "looked" good given their circumstances. (Archie Manning made the Pro Bowl on a 7-9 team) Lousy team but you could simply see he was a good player. I saw nothing remotely similar from our QB's this season.

Crompton just doesn't look like he's got the poise and command of the game at this level. I'd love for him to tear it up under a different system but I've not seen anything that leads me to believe it's a likely scenario. Stephens was never all that "highly regarded" to begin with but he did finish with the highest passer rating. (not that 108.28 only barely keeps you in the top 100) Very strong arm though. I'm tempted to give Coleman a mulligan but there's no getting around the fact that in what limited action he did see he did not impress. I still think he's the most promising of the three.
 
#44
#44
Big Orange Junky said:
So, if the talent is there then we should win the SEC next year.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If "the talent is there we need to fire Fulmer we are losing because he can't coach" is true then the new coach should be able to win immediately.

I personally hope Kiffen does great next season, and I won't be calling for his head if he doesn't but if the same standards are applied then we should.
Click to expand...

At least make a little sense man. Just because we say the talent is there doesn't translate into we should win the SEC. That's just a plain ludicrous and unfair assumption based on the facts. Other teams in the SEC have talent and Florida has better talent. Probably LSU as well. But strictly on paper, TN's talent should be on par with Georgia and better than Alabama at the moment. It just goes to show how horrible our development and coaching has been.
 
#45
#45
Big Orange Junky said:
So, if the talent is there then we should win the SEC next year.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If "the talent is there we need to fire Fulmer we are losing because he can't coach" is true then the new coach should be able to win immediately.

I personally hope Kiffen does great next season, and I won't be calling for his head if he doesn't but if the same standards are applied then we should.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah and there's a big difference from not making a bowl game and losing to Wyoming and UCLA to winning the SEC. Get a brain man...
 
#46
#46
Well then make up your mind. Was the reason we sucked so bad coaching or talent?

You can't have it both ways, but Fulmer detractors try to.

If he was such a bad coach then we should win the SEC, after all Fulmer took almost the same team to the SECCG last year.

If it's the players, well then that means Fulmer isn't nearly as bad a coach as people try to claim.

It got to the point that everyone was blamin the man if it rained or if the sun was shining. In one breath they would claim that he was responsible for the piss poor offense that was throwing bombs on 3rd and 2 while at the same time sayin he was the one responsible for being "too conservative" and wanting to "pound the rock".

If you are willing to give Kiffin time to start winning you have to admit that Fulmer didn't have the horses the other teams did. You can't have it both ways, that's all I'm sayin.
 
#47
#47
Big Orange Junky said:
Well then make up your mind. Was the reason we sucked so bad coaching or talent?

You can't have it both ways, but Fulmer detractors try to.

If he was such a bad coach then we should win the SEC, after all Fulmer took almost the same team to the SECCG last year.

If it's the players, well then that means Fulmer isn't nearly as bad a coach as people try to claim.

It got to the point that everyone was blamin the man if it rained or if the sun was shining. In one breath they would claim that he was responsible for the piss poor offense that was throwing bombs on 3rd and 2 while at the same time sayin he was the one responsible for being "too conservative" and wanting to "pound the rock".

If you are willing to give Kiffin time to start winning you have to admit that Fulmer didn't have the horses the other teams did. You can't have it both ways, that's all I'm sayin.
Click to expand...

Not an either or situation. Fulmer was handsomely paid to win championships and participate in BCS bowls, at least periodically. He has failed to do so for the last ten years. Whether it was the players, the assistant coaches, the game plans, etc., it makes no difference. He failed to make it happen. My opinion is he failed to adequately develop players and an effective team dynamic. Whether Kiffin can overcome these problems in one year or two or three is yet to be seen.
 
#48
#48
billbattle said:
Not an either or situation. Fulmer was handsomely paid to win championships and participate in BCS bowls, at least periodically. He has failed to do so for the last ten years. Whether it was the players, the assistant coaches, the game plans, etc., it makes no difference. He failed to make it happen. My opinion is he failed to adequately develop players and an effective team dynamic. Whether Kiffin can overcome these problems in one year or two or three is yet to be seen.
Click to expand...

While I tend to agree with your assessment I will say that if the team struggles again offensively, particularly at QB, there will be a certain degree of sympathy for Fulmer & Co among many. It will in fact look like talent (or lack thereof at the most key position on the team) finally did him in as much as poor coaching.

Of course, the hardliners will simply say that's still a recruiting, and therefore coaching, issue. I didn't have anywhere near the glazed-eyed hatred of Fulmer that some had but I do wish now that we have a new coach we could get past it already.
 
#49
#49
hndog609 said:
While I tend to agree with your assessment I will say that if the team struggles again offensively, particularly at QB, there will be a certain degree of sympathy for Fulmer & Co among many. It will in fact look like talent (or lack thereof at the most key position on the team) finally did him in as much as poor coaching.

Of course, the hardliners will simply say that's still a recruiting, and therefore coaching, issue. I didn't have anywhere near the glazed-eyed hatred of Fulmer that some had but I do wish now that we have a new coach we could get past it already.
Click to expand...

I think we will struggle at the qb position next year, but I will not extend any sympathy to Fulmer. Hopefully, the coaches will be able to coach around that particular weakness, like many other teams have been able to do successfully.
 
#50
#50
billbattle said:
I think we will struggle at the qb position next year, but I will not extend any sympathy to Fulmer. Hopefully, the coaches will be able to coach around that particular weakness, like many other teams have been able to do successfully.
Click to expand...

That's why I said "offensively" and not just "at QB". If, for instance, a solid and consistent running game emerges then that could be seen as a "coach around" and looks good on the new staff. If there isn't some obvious improvement on the offensive side I'm merely stating those wanting to point fingers at something other than Fulmer's coaching being the problem with the O this last season will be able to make a case.

How much credibility is given that argument is entirely up to the individual. Again, as you said before and I agreed with, the biggest knock on Fulmer was that a decade is long enough to not reach another BCS bowl or win an SEC title. It's a very fair and reasonable criticism.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement



Back
Top