Ditch The Zone Read Running Game

#76
#76
JettVol said:
yea they do, my point is that knight....you know that really fast QB who ran around the field on Saturday, well he actually KEPT the ball, unlike Worley who my 3 year-old nephew knows isn't keeping it, so the DE can just keep crashing down and blowing the play up. I think its been stated around 1000 times previously, but i'll say it again...... instead of a BS zone read, just use a full back/lead blocker and run the ball up the gut. The zone read is supposed to be a way to confuse the DE into either crashing down (if he thinks the ball is going to the RB), or staying home (if he thinks the QB is keeping it and going outside with it).

UT/Worley never keep the ball with the QB, so essentially we are running a hand off play to the RB, not the zone read.
Click to expand...

Worley does keep the ball, and we play with a FB most of the time.
 
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#77
#77
I actually thought they were saving Worley keeping the ball until a critical 3rd down. I thought for sure on the 3rd and 2 at the goal line it would be a Worley fake handoff. They do need to have Worley keep it a couple times a game.
 
#78
#78
Disagree that a read option offense won't work in the SEC (see Auburn, Mizzou, South Carolina, Ole Miss), and that doesn't also mean that a power I formation traditional pro set with a FB won't work either (See Bama, UGA).

But regardless of which style you choose, you have to get the right personnel to fit it. Can anyone name a successful read option team where the QB isn't a running threat at all? When Urban Meyer got to UF, as much of a devotee of the spread as he was, he tweaked his offense to fit a pocket passer like Chris Leak because that was his best option at QB. That's what CBJ needs to do as long as Worley's our guy (and he should be).
 
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#79
#79
Dudley Smith said:
Disagree that a read option offense won't work in the SEC (see Auburn, Mizzou, South Carolina, Ole Miss), and that doesn't also mean that a power I formation traditional pro set with a FB won't work either (See Bama, UGA).

But regardless of which style you choose, you have to get the right personnel to fit it. Can anyone name a successful read option team where the QB isn't a running threat at all? When Urban Meyer got to UF, as much of a devotee of the spread as he was, he tweaked his offense to fit a pocket passer like Chris Leak because that was his best option at QB. That's what CBJ needs to do as long as Worley's our guy (and he should be).
Click to expand...

Bama doesn't run I formation. They're a single back zone team.
 
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#80
#80
JettVol said:
yea they do, my point is that knight....you know that really fast QB who ran around the field on Saturday, well he actually KEPT the ball, unlike Worley who my 3 year-old nephew knows isn't keeping it, so the DE can just keep crashing down and blowing the play up. I think its been stated around 1000 times previously, but i'll say it again...... instead of a BS zone read, just use a full back/lead blocker and run the ball up the gut. The zone read is supposed to be a way to confuse the DE into either crashing down (if he thinks the ball is going to the RB), or staying home (if he thinks the QB is keeping it and going outside with it).

UT/Worley never keep the ball with the QB, so essentially we are running a hand off play to the RB, not the zone read.
Click to expand...

Knight had like 17 yards rushing.
 
#81
#81
I kind of wish we would go back to huddling and getting the play to the QB and he calls it....then sprint I not your formation and run it....it bugs me to show our formation and then everyone has to look to the sideline and get the signal...much easier to get someone confused....also the zone read is useless without a running qb....and I don't think Butch is recruiting any runners right now.....so what gives yo?
 
#82
#82
1. Our run game would be the same or worse running an I formation.
2. Most of the runs aren't run options to Worley, theyre either hand it off or pass.
3. That terrible scheme was the best since 2004 last year.
4. I do think we should pull a guard or use a TE more just to help the o line out a bit.
 
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#84
#84
wilrob75 said:
This. And obviously your comment is going over the head of most folks here. The scheme CAN be successful, yes read it again for those of you disagreeing with the op. The scheme is not the problem. The scheme with worley at qb is the problem.

Did some of you see Trevor knight score on the read option? Wonder why it works for them and not us? Then did you see us have to throw inside their 10 yard line and they picked it and returned it for 6 to effectively end the game? Do you know why we had to throw it that close instead of running the read option like them? It's not rocket science.
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Didn't really think of it that way but yeah, excellent point. Great observation.:thumbsup:
 
#85
#85
Actually, watching the Eagles play tonight, it occurs to me that their offense should be the model for us. Foles isn't any better of a runner than Worley. We just need to get Chip Kelly as our OC and we'll be in good shape.
 
#86
#86
It's not that it doesn't work. We actually ran the ball well the 2nd half of the OU game. Bajakian abandoned it when it was rolling; hence the pick 6 at the goal line.
 
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#87
#87
I don't like the Zone Read because it allows a coach to blame the QB if the play doesn't work.
Bajakian said Worley probably should've pulled it a couple times and he played "decent". That sounds like a smack in the face.
 
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#88
#88
This term zone read in its simplicity and mis-understanding in this offense is becoming a bit silly. Fans are looking at the play fake by the QB and making alot of wholesale assumptions and are missing the fundamentals as well as the complexities of the offense.

The OP is partially right with his analysis of the receivers being the main thrust of this offense. This offense is a hybrid of two mindsets : The West Coast Passing Game and the Rich Rod spread game

The main action of this offense IS NOT and never will be the QB READ OPTION ..despite the obvious play fake by the QB that so many love to talk about.

The QBs primary 'zone read' is to A ) hand off to the RB or B) pull the handoff and pass into a tier west coast route system . Typically layered routes that stretch the field horizontally and vertically with many high percentage routes underneath and comeback routes. As with any west coast game , aspects of the passing game are one in the same with the running game.

The 'zone read ' action that we all love to talk about , is not performed by the QB . It is performed by the RB . When he receives the handoff , the RB has a choice of gaps based on his read of the zone ...usually two inside and a backside 'cutback' run ( what is the H gap or F gap depending on the system ) This is also the lane that a QB runs in a true option zone read QB driven system .

So why does the QB execute the run fake ? Well , he is intended to keep the ball 2-3 times a game . He is also intended to boot out along this route 4-5 times a game . This threat also forces the defense to account for the empty gap .

Sooo the zone read is actually being run by the RBs and not the QB in this offense ...and the passing game is basically the Joe Montana style west coast layered attack

Where the offense is coming up short is execution. A freshman laden , rookie O line is inconsistent in their blocking ( completely normal thing here folks) and the freshman running back and the senior who was not here for much of the off season are having some recognition problems in the zone read ( that they are running NOT the QB ) These things will fix themselves with repetition and experience.

This running style is called the 'dive' offense and has worked fine in the NFL and will absolutely would fine in the SEC when blocked and executed well . The west coast passing game has worked fine at all levels of the NFL ...so dear OP , it will work here to when the top layers of the routes have time to develop due to sound O line play .

Just a side note on the OK game : They had flared out backers the entire game because they knew we could not block them inside...no cutback or outside zone running for anyone ! You wont see much out side zone against a competent 3-4 D because the outside backers hold the H gap easily ( stanford vs Oregon ) Because our freshman O line was getting beat quickly by one of the best D fronts in the country , the top layer routes could not develope. They had the luxury of sitting on all underneath routes and run gaps.

It comes down to blocking . When we can do that ...you guys will see how dynamic and fun this offense is . Stop waiting on the QB keepers !
 
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#91
#91
#1ManningFan said:
And this right here folks is a prime example of a couch coach.
Click to expand...

Ordinarily I don't agree with Tux but he is right on here. The zone read is only effective when you have a QB that is mobile. We don't and we are recruiting predominantly pro style QBs. The offense would be better by utilizing a FB and running out of an I formation. Now if you have the right personnel to execute the zone read then it can be effective. However we don't.

I believe our rushing attack would flourish with a FB.
 
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#96
#96
Worley keeping that ball every now would be nice, but showing the mesh still momentarily freezes the playside DE. So our line still gains a blocker.

Our problem is youth thats the biggest hurdle. The line is still learning to communicate and still not getting to LB's, RB's are still not finding the lanes or using cutbacks. It will come it just takes time. Like it or no CBJ is sticking to his system and not pulling a Dooley and pulling in a new system weekly.
 
#97
#97
majic73 said:
This term zone read in its simplicity and mis-understanding in this offense is becoming a bit silly. Fans are looking at the play fake by the QB and making alot of wholesale assumptions and are missing the fundamentals as well as the complexities of the offense.

The OP is partially right with his analysis of the receivers being the main thrust of this offense. This offense is a hybrid of two mindsets : The West Coast Passing Game and the Rich Rod spread game

The main action of this offense IS NOT and never will be the QB READ OPTION ..despite the obvious play fake by the QB that so many love to talk about.

The QBs primary 'zone read' is to A ) hand off to the RB or B) pull the handoff and pass into a tier west coast route system . Typically layered routes that stretch the field horizontally and vertically with many high percentage routes underneath and comeback routes. As with any west coast game , aspects of the passing game are one in the same with the running game.

The 'zone read ' action that we all love to talk about , is not performed by the QB . It is performed by the RB . When he receives the handoff , the RB has a choice of gaps based on his read of the zone ...usually two inside and a backside 'cutback' run ( what is the H gap or F gap depending on the system ) This is also the lane that a QB runs in a true option zone read QB driven system .

So why does the QB execute the run fake ? Well , he is intended to keep the ball 2-3 times a game . He is also intended to boot out along this route 4-5 times a game . This threat also forces the defense to account for the empty gap .

Sooo the zone read is actually being run by the RBs and not the QB in this offense ...and the passing game is basically the Joe Montana style west coast layered attack

Where the offense is coming up short is execution. A freshman laden , rookie O line is inconsistent in their blocking ( completely normal thing here folks) and the freshman running back and the senior who was not here for much of the off season are having some recognition problems in the zone read ( that they are running NOT the QB ) These things will fix themselves with repetition and experience.

This running style is called the 'dive' offense and has worked fine in the NFL and will absolutely would fine in the SEC when blocked and executed well . The west coast passing game has worked fine at all levels of the NFL ...so dear OP , it will work here to when the top layers of the routes have time to develop due to sound O line play .

Just a side note on the OK game : They had flared out backers the entire game because they knew we could not block them inside...no cutback or outside zone running for anyone ! You wont see much out side zone against a competent 3-4 D because the outside backers hold the H gap easily ( stanford vs Oregon ) Because our freshman O line was getting beat quickly by one of the best D fronts in the country , the top layer routes could not develope. They had the luxury of sitting on all underneath routes and run gaps.

It comes down to blocking . When we can do that ...you guys will see how dynamic and fun this offense is . Stop waiting on the QB keepers !
Click to expand...

Nice analysis. I'd be happy if Worley kept it and ran 2-3 times a game. I can think of 2-3 times the other night when it might have made a big difference.
 
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#99
#99
polkalumn01 said:
How many plays has Bama Qbs made with their feet is recent yrs? Ill hang up and listen
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QB's making plays with their legs doesnt = QB's running 40 yards downfield. McCarron was really good at moving around in and out of the pocket creating more opportunity for WRs to get open........so I would say that Bama QBs have been pretty darn good at making plays with their feet.
 
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