Difference between Butch and Phil

#76
#76
Im tired of hearing that we were in such bad shape when Butch took over. Hes got 4 offensive lineman and 2 defensive lineman on NFL rosters right now. Plus Rajon Neal made a roster and recently got cut.Stop with all of the excuses! Butch at best is a 9-3 coach when he gets all of his players in. You can expect 8-4 9-3 6-6 for years to come with excuses.
 
#77
#77
madbamahater said:
Phil was the beneficiary of a tremendously solid foundation restored by Majors and Fulmer was beneficiary of some of the best talent to ever be on college football teams (over a decade). Many think Phil should have at least 3 National Titles.

Butch's inheritance is one of a once great city in ashes and ruins. He has started to bring the Vols recruiting back to national relevance. It will take I'm 2 or 3 years just to restock the cupboard.

We should let it all play out. He gets 5 years minimum total time. Imo
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One thing overlooked about the program inherited by Fulmer was the work Majors did forcing the administration to upgrade the facilities to advance recruiting. He did the huffing and puffing at the same time pissing off the administration which led to his downfall.
I was in favor of changing coaches after the loss to Wyoming. That has turned out to be a huge mistake based on what has transpired. It is easy to see now it would have been better to force Fulmer to hire a several top recruiters as assistants on offense and defense to compete with the other top coaches that were hired by our competition.
 
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#79
#79
KKruzVFL said:
Im tired of hearing that we were in such bad shape when Butch took over. Hes got 4 offensive lineman and 2 defensive lineman on NFL rosters right now. Plus Rajon Neal made a roster and recently got cut.Stop with all of the excuses! Butch at best is a 9-3 coach when he gets all of his players in. You can expect 8-4 9-3 6-6 for years to come with excuses.
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The major obstacle CBJ has had to overcome is the losing attitude in this program...and on this site. If you ever coached(and it is obvious you haven't) you would realize that is the greatest problem coaches encounter when they try to rebuild a program.
 
#80
#80
I'm going to refer to the transitive property here.

Phil likes biscuits.

I like biscuits.

Therefore, I = National Championship winning coach.

Not much sillier that some of the other crap I've read on VN lately.
 
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#81
#81
Chavis and Cut were exceptional assistant coaches! I believe had Cut stayed as a coordinator Fulmer would still be at Tennessee. I have had conversations with a former Qb that told me Cut ran the team, also that's where the team discipline came from. In retrospect it makes sense, Cut left things went down, Cut came back got better, Cut left and Fulmer wound up getting fired!
 
#82
#82
GreveHaller said:
more interesting facts you left out

Won 9 games in one year and 10 in the other. Fact.

Went to the SECCG. Fact.

So, in your infinite wisdom winning twice as many games as we have in the past four is "irrelevant". How's that changed worked out, old man? I'll take a couple of down seasons for double digit winning seasons over what we've gone thru since he left. In a heartbeat.

It appears your attempt to find blame is just a old man that wont admit he was wrong. I guess you still hold a grudge against Krauts and Slant Eyes too.
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Anyone with an iq over 80 can study the UT football program and see that it slowly declined from a top 10 program in 2001, the best team I think under the Fulmer era to a lower mid tear team when Phil was fired in 2008.

If Phil had not let to program slide into mediocrity, he would still be the TN coach. He did a lot of good to the program then he did a lot of harm to the program. The job he was doing from 2005-2007 was not in the same league as he did from 1993-2001. He was a completely different coach.
 
#84
#84
Ericvol2096 said:
The only difference is where the program was where each took it over.

Butch was following 3 head coaches in 5 years. That had accumulated 49 losses in the 8 seasons before him.

Fulmer followed a coach that had been there 15+ years that had lost 23 games the 8 seasons before him.

Not hard to see the difference.
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plus they didn't recruit any olinwmen in 2012....The icing on top
 
#85
#85
KKruzVFL said:
Im tired of hearing that we were in such bad shape when Butch took over. Hes got 4 offensive lineman and 2 defensive lineman on NFL rosters right now. Plus Rajon Neal made a roster and recently got cut.Stop with all of the excuses! Butch at best is a 9-3 coach when he gets all of his players in. You can expect 8-4 9-3 6-6 for years to come with excuses.
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Your point is idiotic.....6 players do not make a team.... how was our QB, receiving core and tight ends last year...what about the secondary and defensive ends...
 
#86
#86
KKruzVFL said:
Im tired of hearing that we were in such bad shape when Butch took over. Hes got 4 offensive lineman and 2 defensive lineman on NFL rosters right now. Plus Rajon Neal made a roster and recently got cut.Stop with all of the excuses! Butch at best is a 9-3 coach when he gets all of his players in. You can expect 8-4 9-3 6-6 for years to come with excuses.
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So a few players made the NFL what's your point? Does that solve the qualitu depth situation? What about QB play? How about the lost year under Sunseri for the defense? The quitting issue or conditioning? Does a great OL WHO ALL LEFT LAST YEAR solve anything?
Butch may not win a NCG with us, but I would love if he won us 9 games. Seems like forever .
 
#87
#87
Gramps said:
Anyone with an iq over 80 can study the UT football program and see that it slowly declined from a top 10 program in 2001, the best team I think under the Fulmer era to a lower mid tear team when Phil was fired in 2008.

If Phil had not let to program slide into mediocrity, he would still be the TN coach. He did a lot of good to the program then he did a lot of harm to the program. The job he was doing from 2005-2007 was not in the same league as he did from 1993-2001. He was a completely different coach.
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10 months before he was fired he won 10 games and went to a SECCG. Anyone with an IQ over 50 can tell you that's not mediocrity.

Sad that you still cant admit how wrong you are. Yeah, mediocrity - 8 and 9 wins seasons. What would you give for that mediocrity now? If that was mediocre then what would you call these years since making the biggest mistake our program has ever made? I'd say an abortion. What would you call it?
 
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#88
#88
GAVol said:
That's a faulty premise. I can't name any coaches winning championships that are doing it with inferior talent.
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The way I read it, you're proving his point. Or he is proving yours. Either way, you seem to be saying the same thing.
 
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#89
#89
GreveHaller said:
10 months before he was fired he won 10 games and went to a SECCG. Anyone with an IQ over 50 can tell you that's not mediocrity.

Sad that you still cant admit how wrong you are. Yeah, mediocrity - 8 and 9 wins seasons. What would you give for that mediocrity now? If that was mediocre then what would you call these years since making the biggest mistake our program has ever made? I'd say an abortion. What would you call it?
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There is a difference between acknowledging that the events that have happened after the firing of Fulmer were bad, and using them as proof that Fulmer was still the best option.

It's like saying you are ill so you decide to go see a doctor. While you drive to the hospital you get in a terrible wreck. The wreck doesn't prove that you didn't need to go to the doctor in the first place even if healing from a broken back is far worse than the ailment you had originally.

Edit: I am a huge Fulmer fan, but I think the sun had set on his reign.
 
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#92
#92
Alumni_06 said:
Our assistants are just fine, the only problem we have is depth. We see what happens when we have all our starters on off. and def. We will be fine
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Some of our assistants are just fine but some are total crap. Our Off. Coordinator stinks badly.
 
#94
#94
GreveHaller said:
10 months before he was fired he won 10 games and went to a SECCG. Anyone with an IQ over 50 can tell you that's not mediocrity.

Sad that you still cant admit how wrong you are. Yeah, mediocrity - 8 and 9 wins seasons. What would you give for that mediocrity now? If that was mediocre then what would you call these years since making the biggest mistake our program has ever made? I'd say an abortion. What would you call it?
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Phil Fulmer, the tale of two coaches.

Phil's teams finished ranked in the top 10 6 of the 7 seasons from 1995-2001 with a National Championship. One of the best in the nation.

Phil's last 7 seasons 2002-2008, TN did not finish in the top 10 a single time and was losing regularly to the better SEC teams.

See the pattern of the program declining ?

Phil was a very good coach, then he was not.

Edited to add.
In 2002, preseason ranking #5,finished unranked.
In 2005, preseason ranking #3, finished unranked.
 
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#95
#95
if he was a good coach, he'd be coaching. He rode Johnny's coat tails for all he could get and when that ran out Cutcliffe carried his fat ass.
 
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#96
#96
daj2576 said:
There is a difference between acknowledging that the events that have happened after the firing of Fulmer were bad, and using them as proof that Fulmer was still the best option.

It's like saying you are ill so you decide to go see a doctor. While you drive to the hospital you get in a terrible wreck. The wreck doesn't prove that you didn't need to go to the doctor in the first place even if healing from a broken back is far worse than the ailment you had originally.

Edit: I am a huge Fulmer fan, but I think the sun had set on his reign.
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He was still the better option (to not fire) vs what was out there in coaches who were actually listening to us.
 
#97
#97
Fulmer completely understood that you win in the SEC with great a OL and DL..Jones is it trying to get there fast
 
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#98
#98
gule said:
if he was a good coach, he'd be coaching. He rode Johnny's coat tails for all he could get and when that ran out Cutcliffe carried his fat ass.
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So he road Majors' coatails for 5 years to a NC? Didn't know any title players played for Majors too!
 
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#99
#99
gule said:
if he was a good coach, he'd be coaching. He rode Johnny's coat tails for all he could get and when that ran out Cutcliffe carried his fat ass.
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Other than the fact that he won a national title completely with players he recruited and was a half away from playing for another national title 3 years after Cutcliffe left, you've got a point.
 
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#100
#100
Biopsyman said:
Fulmer completely understood that you win in the SEC with great a OL and DL..Jones is it trying to get there fast
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Yep, he understood the value of the OL, that is why he left Kiffin with so much OL talent on the roster that Kiffin had to start walk-ons.
 
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