Difference between Butch and Phil

#51
#51
fulmer1.jpg
 
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#53
#53
peerless98 said:
You need to step away from the keyboard. Phil didn't destroy this program; he made it relevant.
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Wrong. Johnny made it relevant. Phil took it to the top,then he let it slowly become irrelevant.
Phil won 5 games in 2 of his last 4 years. That be a fact.
 
#54
#54
boxerpupsrcool said:
Here's the most important difference.. Phil was loyal to Tennessee and wouldn't have left for any amount of money, butch on the other hand, given the opportunity and the right situation, would.
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What do you base this opinion on?
 
#55
#55
madbamahater said:
Here is the real difference:

1. Butch inherited one of the worst situations in the history of college football

2. Fulmer inherited one of the best situations in the history of college football.

/thread
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Wow hater... short sweet , too the point. And right on point also:thumbsup:
 
#56
#56
It's still early to get a read on butch but something I don't think is talked about very often is the offensive philosophies between BJ and Phil. Even though college football seems to be going the way of the read option/running QB, I don't think anyone is sold on what we've seen from this kind of offense. At least not the way butch is doing it. Defensively I'm sold on what I've seen. But offensively this looks so foreign to what we saw when TN was a powerhouse it's tough to trust especially when the results haven't been there.
 
#57
#57
Rudy123 said:
When coaches are getting paid this much, as compared to what Majors was paid, they expect immediate results.

Majors won a National Championship at Pitt and got maybe 20% of what below average S.E.C. coaches get now. Not elite S.E.C. coaches but below average coaches. Look at UK coaches salary. Look at Arkansas coaches salary.
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Majors' starting salary was $60,000 when he was hired by UT (from an old Associated Press article I found).
 
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#58
#58
1standgoal said:
This difference between the two coaches is not the ability to recruit, but the level of assistant coaches. Chavis and Cutcliffe were a pretty good pair compared to what UT has now.
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Because nobody ever wanted to run Chavis, Cutcliffe, Sanders, Stephens, Clawson etc out of town. :crazy:
 
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#60
#60
wvVol said:
This. The coaching in the SEC in 1993 was nowhere near the level it is now. The the recruiting caught up to coach Fulmer and the coaching passed him. But that doesn't mean I don't appreciate that run in the 90s...
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What conference has ever had the level of coaching and recruiting the SEC currently has?

Could be argued the success of the 90's helped drive the SEC to where it is today. Tennessee (Fulmer et al.) was a big part of that success.

152 wins still ranks fairly high on the all-time SEC wins list. Winning 100 more games than you lose is not all that common either.

The guys with stadiums named after them (Neyland, Bryant, Jordan & the like) are clearly @ the top of the list. Then come Spurrier & Saban, once they finally retire. I'd put Ole Phil somewhere in that next tier of coaches, which ain't half bad for an old lineman.

Hopefully CBJ barges his way into the discussion of all time great SEC coaches over the next 15 years.

GoVols.
 
#61
#61
Phil was the beneficiary of a tremendously solid foundation restored by Majors and Fulmer was beneficiary of some of the best talent to ever be on college football teams (over a decade). Many think Phil should have at least 3 National Titles.

Butch's inheritance is one of a once great city in ashes and ruins. He has started to bring the Vols recruiting back to national relevance. It will take I'm 2 or 3 years just to restock the cupboard.

We should let it all play out. He gets 5 years minimum total time. Imo
 
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#62
#62
keckjm said:
The problem is, on offense we don't have an OL coach with any experience at this level. On top of that, Mahoney has zero ties to this area. Bajakian and Elder are the same way, no SEC experience or ties to this area. That leaves Gillespie and Coach Z as the lone guys who have ties in the SEC area from past coaching jobs on offense. Thig, Willie, and Jancek all coached in the SEC before they got here, and Strip has been coaching DL for 25+ years. You don't coach 25+ years at this level unless you know what you are doing. That's why our defense is improving so much faster than our offense. We have more coaches on that side of the ball who have SEC experience, and who have ties to this area that helps us tons in recruiting.

For the record, great coaches always surround themselves with at least 4-5 coaches who have ties to the area in which you are coaching. CBJ has done that, but it just happens the best of those 4-5 coaches are on the defensive side of the ball, i.e. Willie, Jancek, and Thing.
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Think about your comment......Doesn't a coach at any given point have 0 expierence in the SEC at some point? Your logic is funny. Anyway, continue on....
 
#63
#63
madbamahater said:
Phil was the beneficiary of a tremendously solid foundation restored by Majors and Fulmer was beneficiary of some of the best talent to ever be on college football teams (over a decade). Many think Phil should have at least 3 National Titles.

Butch's inheritance is one of a once great city in ashes and ruins. He has started to bring the Vols recruiting back to national relevance. It will take I'm 2 or 3 years just to restock the cupboard.

We should let it all play out. He gets 5 years minimum total time. Imo
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At least be playing for 3 of them. That 2001 meltdown against LSU was a sign of things to come. I wonder how bad Fulmers record against Alabama would be if he were coaching against Saban? He won not so much because of coaching but because he had so much talent. How many championships would Saban had won during that period if he were here instead of Fulmer?
 
#64
#64
mscox75 said:
Think about your comment......Doesn't a coach at any given point have 0 expierence in the SEC at some point? Your logic is funny. Anyway, continue on....
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...and nevermind those years he spent in the NFL. This is the Ess Eaeee Ceaee baby!
 
#67
#67
GAVol said:
That's a faulty premise. I can't name any coaches winning championships that are doing it with inferior talent.
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That's a great point and I didn't clarify my point. My point was his coaching ability was not the catalyst for winning it was simply out talenting the opponents. We were so much better talent wise than most of the SEC but lost to teams with a better coach, such as Spurrier and Saban.
 
#68
#68
Gramps said:
Wrong. Johnny made it relevant. Phil took it to the top,then he let it slowly become irrelevant.
Phil won 5 games in 2 of his last 4 years. That be a fact.
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It is also a fact that Butch has never won more than 5 games in a season with Tennessee.
 
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#69
#69
i'm starting a thread called "The difference between CBJ and Vince Lombardi" next. That'll show the world just how terrible CBJ is doing.
 
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#70
#70
Gramps said:
Wrong. Johnny made it relevant. Phil took it to the top,then he let it slowly become irrelevant.
Phil won 5 games in 2 of his last 4 years. That be a fact.
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So a National Championship is less important than relevant in your opinion? Makes perfect sense!
 
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#71
#71
GLDunlap said:
For the record? Everybody is an expert in their own mind. For the record it's Thig not Thing. For all of your ties to the area talk our offensive recruiting has been just fine but it takes more then one class and one year to build an offensive line.
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Why on earth should it take more than one class and one year to build an offensive line given the current roster?

They had 3 RS Jr in Crowder, Kerbyson, and Jackson.

A RS Senior in Gilliam.

RS Freshman in Kendricks and Sanders.

Your post is just absurd kind of like the play of the O line this season.

Mahoney had established players in a college program and brought in Thomas and Blair to add depth.

And with that experience, they looked just as bad in week 13 as they did in week 1.
 
#73
#73
Gramps said:
Wrong. Johnny made it relevant. Phil took it to the top,then he let it slowly become irrelevant.
Phil won 5 games in 2 of his last 4 years. That be a fact.
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more interesting facts you left out

Won 9 games in one year and 10 in the other. Fact.

Went to the SECCG. Fact.

So, in your infinite wisdom winning twice as many games as we have in the past four is "irrelevant". How's that changed worked out, old man? I'll take a couple of down seasons for double digit winning seasons over what we've gone thru since he left. In a heartbeat.

It appears your attempt to find blame is just a old man that wont admit he was wrong. I guess you still hold a grudge against Krauts and Slant Eyes too.
 
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#74
#74
There will never be another Chief. Cut ranks up there. Not fair to juudge on that, these guys work with Butch like Phil did with his.
 
#75
#75
pualsline said:
I think that the OP raises a good point.

One thing that I have often wondered about is what if we had kept Phil (from a recruiting perspective)

He WAS a great recruiter. Would he have adapted to the way that recruiting is starting to change due to social media?

Saban still recruits very well without social media, but there are not many coaches that have the ability to recruit without social media. Saban seems to be the exception not the rule.

Thoughts?
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It was time for Phil to go. all coaches go thru it. Sometimes the best thing for both parties is to go on their seperate ways. I relate it a lot to Mack brown at Texas. He was a great coach, as was Phil, but sometimes you need to inject new blood into a program. I just wish it wasn't the disease riddled blood of Kiffin and Dooley. We are finally seeing some light at the end of the tunnel now,imo. Our choices were pathetic as replacements, if we had made a good hire after Fulmer, we would be competing for NCs by now if not already won one.
 
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