Did I hear that right

#26
#26
Vols1891 said:
It’s not just about yourself though. People refusing to get vaccinated are the reason why we haven’t been able to reach herd immunity in this country. Therefore, the virus will continue to spread and mutate throughout the unvaccinated population. Eventually after enough mutations, the vaccine may no longer be effective. So refusing to get the vaccination is a very selfish act.
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Everyone has the right to make decisions for their own health. These vaccines have not been tested enough for some people to feel safe taking them. That’s their privilege.

Unfortunately there have been too many lies from authorities about this entire fiasco for me to buy “if we all get vaccinated it will go away”.
 
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#27
#27
Vols1891 said:
It’s not just about yourself though. People refusing to get vaccinated are the reason why we haven’t been able to reach herd immunity in this country. Therefore, the virus will continue to spread and mutate throughout the unvaccinated population. Eventually after enough mutations, the vaccine may no longer be effective. So refusing to get the vaccination is a very selfish act.
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Natural immunity goes toward herd immunity too. You know, the ways it's worked for hundreds of thousand/millions of years.

No need to get all Fauci worshippers in here saying hes the only who can save us.
 
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#29
#29
ftsandersvol said:
I think you need to read your statement again real slowly. Never in the history of medicine has a vaccine been required to reach herd immunity.
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Vaccines tend to speed up the process and do so much more safely. Reaching herd immunity to polio the old fashioned way would have been really unpleasant.
 
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#31
#31
ftsandersvol said:
I pity the young men (and maybe all) who are going to develop heart problems from taking the vaccine. There is no reason people in good health should take the vaccine, especially if they have already had COVID.
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The current numbers don't suggest that myocarditis is more prevalent with the vaccine than with contracting Covid naturally. There was a serious overreaction to that risk when the pandemic first began, and I don't see the need to overreact any further. It's a very low risk either way.
 
#32
#32
bamawriter said:
The current numbers don't suggest that myocarditis is more prevalent with the vaccine than with contracting Covid naturally. There was a serious overreaction to that risk when the pandemic first began, and I don't see the need to overreact any further. It's a very low risk either way.
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I take it you trust the "current numbers" coming from an organization that has lied from the outset about this virus?
 
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#35
#35
bamawriter said:
Vaccines tend to speed up the process and do so much more safely. Reaching herd immunity to polio the old fashioned way would have been really unpleasant.
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Maybe, maybe not, but I guarantee the polio vaccine was vetted more thoroughly than the vaccine they are currently trying to push on everyone. If someone wants to take the vaccine, that's their personal choice. I, myself, am very skeptical of the pinheads in charge, just as the founding fathers intended the citizenry to be. The government has never given away anything for free out of the goodness of their heart. There is always an ulterior motive.
 
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#36
#36
ftsandersvol said:
Maybe, maybe not, but I guarantee the polio vaccine was vetted more thoroughly than the vaccine they are currently trying to push on everyone. If someone wants to take the vaccine, that's their personal choice. I, myself, am very skeptical of the pinheads in charge, just as the founding fathers intended the citizenry to be. The government has never given away anything for free out of the goodness of their heart. There is always an ulterior motive.
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Free? We're all paying for it.
 
#39
#39
ftsandersvol said:
So you trust the numbers where gunshot, motorcycle, etc., deaths are counted as COVID deaths.
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I've never seen any actual evidence that corroborates that claim, so there is nothing for me to trust.

I'm cofident that certain cases of terminal disease have counted as Covid deaths; health officials have admitted as much. It's often difficult to determine the extent to which a comorbidity impacted the result. For instance, my grandfather had advanced Alzheimer's. It was going to kill him, but the prognosis gave him another 2 or 3 years. Covid got into his care facility and he was the 5th of 11 total deaths. He had a terminal disease for which there is no cure, but he was still alive before he caught Covid, so how should his death be classified?

But, to the extent that the numbers are inflated by comorbid cases, we also know that some states undercounted their cases. Andrew Cuomo had a book to sell and didn't want anyone to know how many old people he'd murdered, so his team fudged the numbers.
 
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#40
#40
Need more long term data on the vaccine. It is not even FDA approved. It is in a clinical trial phase. Anyone has the right to get it. But based on the aforementioned anyone should have the same right not to take it.

This panic has turned a lot of folks into idiots. Folks that should know better. The survival rate for Covid-19 is around 98%.

I see people compare this to Polio. That vaccine has long term data. To compare the 2 is just dumb.
 
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#41
#41
Jxn Vol said:
Need more long term data on the vaccine. It is not even FDA approved. It is in a clinical trial phase. Anyone has the right to get it. But based on the aforementioned anyone should have the same right not to take it.
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They're actually out of the trial phase. The manufacturers have applied for full FDA approval. Because of the emergency use authorization, there is actually way more data than would typically be available during the average pharma trial.

The reason the vaccines aren't approved is not a lack of data, it's a glut of bureaucracy.
 
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#42
#42
bamawriter said:
I've never seen any actual evidence that corroborates that claim, so there is nothing for me to trust.

I'm cofident that certain cases of terminal disease have counted as Covid deaths; health officials have admitted as much. It's often difficult to determine the extent to which a comorbidity impacted the result. For instance, my grandfather had advanced Alzheimer's. It was going to kill him, but the prognosis gave him another 2 or 3 years. Covid got into his care facility and he was the 5th of 11 total deaths. He had a terminal disease for which there is no cure, but he was still alive before he caught Covid, so how should his death be classified?

But, to the extent that the numbers are inflated by comorbid cases, we also know that some states undercounted their cases. Andre Cuomo had a book to sell and didn't want anyone to know how many old people he'd murdered, so his team fudged the numbers.
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That's the root of the problem. The government has now weaponized science, so no one knows what the truth is anymore. I just know I never have believed the government and never will.
 
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#43
#43
bamawriter said:
They're actually out of the trial phase. The manufacturers have applied for full FDA approval. Because of the emergency use authorization, there is actually way more data than would typically be available during the average pharma trial.

The reason the vaccines aren't approved is not a lack of data, it's a glut of bureaucracy.
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I have no doubt they have data. But listen carefully, they don’t have long term data. I’m in healthcare. Long term data rules that space. I can also tell you that anything rushed in medicine is normally not good.
 
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#44
#44
ftsandersvol said:
That's the root of the problem. The government has now weaponized science, so no one knows what the truth is anymore. I just know I never have believed the government and never will.
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That's why I try to check out as many sources as possible and draw a conclusion that's as close to sure as I can get. I'm not an expert, and I'm sure as heck not going to give anyone health advice.
 
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#45
#45
ftsandersvol said:
That's the root of the problem. The government has now weaponized science, so no one knows what the truth is anymore. I just know I never have believed the government and never will.
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When our main scientists they trot out there are political hacks it’s not good. And when they try to silence the Stanford epidemiologists that know what’s up, that’s not good either.
 
#46
#46
Jxn Vol said:
I have no doubt they have data. But listen carefully, they don’t have long term data. I’m in healthcare. Long term data rules that space. I can also tell you that anything rushed in medicine is normally not good.
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But to the same extent there isn't long term data on the actual virus. We have no clue what the long term effects are. But the vaccines have cut down on the near term hospitalizations and deaths.

If it turns out that the long term effects of the vaccine are worse than the long term effects of the virus, well then that will just suck. But every day that goes by makes that possibility ever so slightly less likely.
 
#47
#47
bamawriter said:
But to the same extent there isn't long term data on the actual virus. We have no clue what the long term effects are. But the vaccines have cut down on the near term hospitalizations and deaths.

If it turns out that the long term effects of the vaccine are worse than the long term effects of the virus, well then that will just suck. But every day that goes by makes that possibility ever so slightly less likely.
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Dude. There are hundreds of Corona viruses. We pass them around all the time. To say there is no long term data on Corona viruses is false and rather dumb.

Herd immunity was slowed due to the stupid lockdowns. States that opened up are doing far better and are the reasons that the hospitalizations dropped. I saw it firsthand.
 
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#48
#48
Jxn Vol said:
Dude. There are hundreds of Corona viruses. We pass them around all the time. To say there is no long term data on Corona viruses is false and rather dumb.
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This particular coronavirus, thanks to the f***ery of the Chinese, is a different beast than other coronaviruses. There is no coronavirus that has rampaged around the globe with the efficiency of this one.

Herd immunity was slowed due to the stupid lockdowns. States that opened up are doing far better and are the reasons that the hospitalizations dropped. I saw it firsthand.
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Agreed as to the uselessness of the lockdowns. But, with the exception of a few states (NY, CA, MI, et al) very few states kept up any policies that could be realistically called a "lockdown," and cases did nothing but rise until the vaccine became commonplace. Now, it is undeniably true that acquired immunity played a role as well. But to suggest that the impact of the vaccine hasn't been significant is to ignore reality.
 
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#49
#49
bamawriter said:
This particular coronavirus, thanks to the f***ery of the Chinese, is a different beast than other coronaviruses. There is no coronavirus that has rampaged around the globe with the efficiency of this one.



Agreed as to the uselessness of the lockdowns. But, with the exception of a few states (NY, CA, MI, et al) very few states kept up any policies that could be realistically called a "lockdown," and cases did nothing but rise until the vaccine became commonplace. Now, it is undeniably true that acquired immunity played a role as well. But to suggest that the impact of the vaccine hasn't been significant is to ignore reality.
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Only difference is we tested the living crap out of this virus. And the fear peddlers had a field day. It has a 98% survival rate. I will wait on long term data on the vaccine. I’m guessing you are a double masker.
 
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