DG's Post-Signing Day Thoughts

[Sudden Impact]

There's no way to sugar coat this. It started with the screwed up coaching search and missing out on a big name. It ended yesterday with a huge disappointment. When you swing for the fences, you also strike out more often. From 247, our average recruit is 87.76 rating, with even number 41 Vanderbilt sitting close behind at an 86.07 average and Kentucky 86.11. While above us, a&m, lsu, Florida, auburn, and Alabama and Georgia of course, are a wider gap in front of us than Vandy and KY are behind us. It is what it is, but it isn't looking good

Difference will be coaching...new staff, shortened period, hidden talented players than star power represents, screwed up coaching search (1 month of Bad publicity) did not help, relationships that take a year to develop and staff not complete until late in the process.

Add to this the new Early Signing Period, inherited a broken class in recruiting (stopped recruiting and contact in Oct) add dismal season

Next year outside of top 12 there should be some concern.

 

[rnhturner]

Schiano or Yesterday?

I choose yesterday.

 

[Pride85]

please enlighten me with my logical flaws.

You are making conclusions based on facts not in evidence. You are inferring that comments made referencing the poor initial recruiting results of very good coaches means our new coach is being placed on a pedestal. The statements given are a statement of fact. The coaches listed did poorly to start and had much better results starting the next year and going forward. At no point was a direct statement made that CJP would follow in those footsteps, just that there was historical precedent that it can happen.

Also your tags of horrible results are based off exaggerated expectations over premier athletes that were never offered by the previous staff. Only two of the recruits that were lost, were ever committed in the first place. With the uncertainty of the early signing period (which no previous staff had to deal with period) a very poor performance in the current year, very poorly conducted coaching search and a three week dead period; the results were commendable. Not perfect, but beyond reasonable expectations. Most pundits are of the opinion that it was a good class.

 

[goldvol]

You are making conclusions based on facts not in evidence. You are inferring that comments made referencing the poor initial recruiting results of very good coaches means our new coach is being placed on a pedestal. The statements given are a statement of fact. The coaches listed did poorly to start and had much better results starting the next year and going forward. At no point was a direct statement made that CJP would follow in those footsteps, just that there was historical precedent that it can happen.

In fact, what you are describing is a logical fallacy called cherry picking, the "act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position, while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position; it is a kind of fallacy of selective attention, the most common example of which is the confirmation bias." I would rather see what the common result is of a coach with a mediocre class in the first year going on to be successful, because that scenario is more likely.

Also your tags of horrible results are based off exaggerated expectations over premier athletes that were never offered by the previous staff. Only two of the recruits that were lost, were ever committed in the first place. With the uncertainty of the early signing period (which no previous staff had to deal with period) a very poor performance in the current year, very poorly conducted coaching search and a three week dead period; the results were commendable. Not perfect, but beyond reasonable expectations. Most pundits are of the opinion that it was a good class.

While most pundits may be of the opinion that it is a good class i.e. top 25, I have not read a single pundit that said Tennessee finished the recruiting cycle well on national signing day. There were clear flip flops or misses in the wrong direction, Jordan Young, Quay Walker, ITS to name a few. It was a horrible finish to the recruiting cycle, and yesterday was not in fact beyond reasonable expectations. a reasonable expectation would have been for some of the guys on the fence to choose Tennessee, and to keep or flip to Tennessee the same number of Tennessee commitments that flip elsewhere.

believing we exceeded expectations yesterday puts you in the minority, and the op doesnt even go that far and says it was "disappointing".

 

[gunner]

Didn't Juan Jennings play QB in HS? Hummm.......I've seen stranger things happen.

I’ve been thinking that too, he’s a baller I’d give him a look at QB this spring. He looked pretty good there before he moved to WR.

 

[NaturalSelector]

In fact, what you are describing is a logical fallacy called cherry picking".

I don't post very often, mostly when I see something that causes immediate cancer. Are we debating Rand and Kantian ethics? Is someone attempting to refute Luther's 95 theses? Did someone impugn Schopenhauer's world at will?

I always wanted to ask one of you types why you feel the need to puke out formal and informal fallacies in a generic social conversation, more or less one about a dadgum college sports team? You sound like a year 1 philosopohy student that can't wait to wield a new found sword.

Here’s the thing... There is an objective truth, but there is a subjective layer where we use our emotions to determine what we want out of the universe, defining morality and other abstract ideas that determine what we do with our knowledge.

We can’t grasp the entire truth or perfect knowledge because of our limitations as human beings, including being an inseparable part of the universe. We can however use science, logic, mathematics, etc. to get increasingly accurate approximations of an objective truth.

Some types of “opinions” are actually facts. Some opinions are indeed just emotionally based, and thus logic and evidence aren’t involved.

Logical fallacies are a unit that b******t can be measured in, and knowledge of logical fallacies is a powerful tool for detecting lies, another unit of b******t.

They definitely have their place academically. Not so sure you need to whip this tool out on a football forum.

 

[Lankykong]

Wouldn’t any selection of good coaches on a criteria be cherry picking since most are bad or mediocre?

 

[BloomuVol]

Fact is we do not know what we have in JG. Hopefully under some good tutelage and better injury luck on the OL, we can see what we have there. DG is right though about the need for a grad transfer QB. Odds are unlikely JG would go through the entire season without missing some playing time. Issue is the list of Grad Transfer QBs is thin and I would think someone like Chryst or Wilton Speight would not come here unless he thought it more likely that not he would be the starting QB. On the flip side how would JG do with being the backup for a another year--given his pouting at the GT game.

Did he pout during the game Mcbride played? No he stood on the sideline with helmet the whole game. Can we quit acting like kids can't mature?

 

[goldvol]

I don't post very often, mostly when I see something that causes immediate cancer. Are we debating Rand and Kantian ethics? Is someone attempting to refute Luther's 95 theses? Did someone impugn Schopenhauer's world at will?

I always wanted to ask one of you types why you feel the need to puke out formal and informal fallacies in a generic social conversation, more or less one about a dadgum college sports team?

...because he claimed ironically claimed I was being illogical, using a fallacious argument. I think that's pretty funny.

Didn't read the rest of your tripe, so you'll get no response on that.

 

[Advol]

There's no way to sugar coat this. It started with the screwed up coaching search and missing out on a big name. It ended yesterday with a huge disappointment. When you swing for the fences, you also strike out more often. From 247, our average recruit is 87.76 rating, with even number 41 Vanderbilt sitting close behind at an 86.07 average and Kentucky 86.11. While above us, a&m, lsu, Florida, auburn, and Alabama and Georgia of course, are a wider gap in front of us than Vandy and KY are behind us. It is what it is, but it isn't looking good

Screwed up Coaching search had little to nothing to do with the new Staff. They are here as a result and little could be done about the past EXCEPT put best face forward and go to work. I feel they did that.

WHO was you Coach of Choice and do you believe if hired at the same time would have had a higher ranked class?

Do you really believe the fired Ad and Schiano would have faired better??

 

[goldvol]

Wouldn’t any selection of good coaches on a criteria be cherry picking since most are bad or mediocre?

Yes, so it makes more sense to expect an outcome based on what usually happens instead of cherry picking the best guys and saying, see, we can be alright guys. I hope Pruitt is great, but I expect him to be mediocre like most coaches are.

 

[goldvol]

Screwed up Coaching search had little to nothing to do with the new Staff. They are here as a result and little could be done about the past EXCEPT put best face forward and go to work. I feel they did that.

WHO was you Coach of Choice and do you believe if hired at the same time would have had a higher ranked class?

Do you really believe the fired Ad and Schiano would have faired better??

My coach of choice was Jim Bob Cooter. Funny enough, the first arguments I got against him was that he was "a coordinator with no head coaching experience" hahahahaha. Then after we got Pruitt, I was told that Cooter is waiting to be an NFL head coach. So of course, Detroit hires Patricia and retains Cooter as the OC.

I think if we got Cooter at the start of the coaching search, we would have kept more of the big names associated with Butch Jones because of Cooter's Tennessee roots and also his NFL exposure.

But heck, I don't have any real evidence to back that stuff up and feel free to roast me about that opinion.

 

[NaturalSelector]

...because he claimed ironically claimed I was being illogical, using a fallacious argument. I think that's pretty funny.

Didn't read the rest of your tripe, so you'll get no response on that.

I doubt that his use of "illogical", is the way you are taking it. However you already knew that. Be sure and let the Oxford Academic Philosophical Society know that you did your duty on the vol forum!

 

[Crazy Ivan]

it's also weird that half your analysis about why things arent so bad is because the greatest coaches in college football have improved or overachieved on their class rankings. the implication is that Pruitt is (or could be) listed among those names, while that of itself is quite a stretch.

I didn't get that implication at all from DG's post. It just looked to me he was reminding us that even some of the top coaches who made job changes had to survive that transitional recruiting class, but then quickly improved with Class 2.

But I guess the clear implication here is that some fans don't want to hear any rational talk.

 

[brainvol]

Alontae played qb as well.

 

[Lankykong]

Yes, so it makes more sense to expect an outcome based on what usually happens instead of cherry picking the best guys and saying, see, we can be alright guys. I hope Pruitt is great, but I expect him to be mediocre like most coaches are.

OK, I can respect that, makes sense.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Been super-busy lately, but thought I'd get in my post.......

Well done as always.

 

[82_VOL_83]

I don't post very often, mostly when I see something that causes immediate cancer. Are we debating Rand and Kantian ethics? Is someone attempting to refute Luther's 95 theses? Did someone impugn Schopenhauer's world at will?

I always wanted to ask one of you types why you feel the need to puke out formal and informal fallacies in a generic social conversation, more or less one about a dadgum college sports team? You sound like a year 1 philosopohy student that can't wait to wield a new found sword.

Here’s the thing... There is an objective truth, but there is a subjective layer where we use our emotions to determine what we want out of the universe, defining morality and other abstract ideas that determine what we do with our knowledge.

We can’t grasp the entire truth or perfect knowledge because of our limitations as human beings, including being an inseparable part of the universe. We can however use science, logic, mathematics, etc. to get increasingly accurate approximations of an objective truth.

Some types of “opinions” are actually facts. Some opinions are indeed just emotionally based, and thus logic and evidence aren’t involved.

Logical fallacies are a unit that b******t can be measured in, and knowledge of logical fallacies is a powerful tool for detecting lies, another unit of b******t.

They definitely have their place academically. Not so sure you need to whip this tool out on a football forum.

Oh crap, there's a new player in town. He brought the big guns.

 

[mpfvol]

I think the O line will see alot of improvement with less thinking and more firing off the ball hitting going on.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

There's no way to sugar coat this. It started with the screwed up coaching search and missing out on a big name. It ended yesterday with a huge disappointment. When you swing for the fences, you also strike out more often. From 247, our average recruit is 87.76 rating, with even number 41 Vanderbilt sitting close behind at an 86.07 average and Kentucky 86.11. While above us, a&m, lsu, Florida, auburn, and Alabama and Georgia of course, are a wider gap in front of us than Vandy and KY are behind us. It is what it is, but it isn't looking good

It isnt looking good? So please explain what your expectations were. Were you expecting a first year HC to come into Tennessee and kill it? Especially with having to deal with situations that NO HC has ever dealt with in the history of CF. And throw in the fact that we just had the worst season in modern school history. Enlighten us.

 

[Advol]

My coach of choice was Jim Bob Cooter. Funny enough, the first arguments I got against him was that he was "a coordinator with no head coaching experience" hahahahaha. Then after we got Pruitt, I was told that Cooter is waiting to be an NFL head coach. So of course, Detroit hires Patricia and retains Cooter as the OC.

I think if we got Cooter at the start of the coaching search, we would have kept more of the big names associated with Butch Jones because of Cooter's Tennessee roots and also his NFL exposure.

But heck, I don't have any real evidence to back that stuff up and feel free to roast me about that opinion.

SO you telling me Cooter has a better Class....or ya tellin me it doesn't matter......better Coach??

 

[JazzMaster001]

Good assessment for the most part, I disagree with your assessment of the Defense a little.

While we have talent at CB, it is largely unproven. I think we've got some potential studs at CB between Shamburger, Byrd, and Osborne, but there's not enough on field evidence to say it with any certainty.

I think how we play at LB this year largely depends on DK Jr's health. He'll be a game changer if healthy, but I don't think we can assume he'll be on the field all year based off how the last 2 seasons have gone. Bituli is solid, I'd like to see more of Ignot, and hopefully Peterson can have a big impact as a Freshmen.