Denard thinks he could beat Bolt

#204
#204
bleedingTNorange said:
Bingo

Taking it one step further, if he ran it tomorrow, he'd be a 4.0-4.5 guy IMO
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LOL!

"Ah, anything... in this general area, right in here. Anything, below the stereo, and on this side of the Bicentennial glasses. Anything between the ashtray, and the thimbles. Anything in this three inches. Right in here, this area, that includes the Chiclets, but not the erasers."
 
#205
#205
hndog609 said:
LOL!

"Ah, anything... in this general area, right in here. Anything, below the stereo, and on this side of the Bicentennial glasses. Anything between the ashtray, and the thimbles. Anything in this three inches. Right in here, this area, that includes the Chiclets, but not the erasers."
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Lol you like that?

All seriousness, I'd say 4.45-4.5 if he had to run it tomorrow.
 
#206
#206
bleedingTNorange said:
Lol you like that?

All seriousness, I'd say 4.45-4.5 if he had to run it tomorrow.
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That seems slow considering what I know he's capable of on the track but the simple truth is I simply have no reliable means of calibrating what the move to turf/no blocks would be. In spite of LSU-SIU's incomprehensible usage of the words "opinion" and "speculation" I'm actually pretty reticent about taking a stance I can't articulate my support for empirically. People love to cite Gatlin's Pro Day but if you look up his supposed 40's he ran for the Texans we're right back to :banghead2:.

WTH aren't there any NCAA splits out there for the 60/100/200. Whatever anybody believes about 40 times we'd at least be able to have benchmarked guys like Holliday/Demps/Ford and been able to make some kind of critical comparison.
 
#209
#209
Demps ran a 6.52 60m
Bolt ran a 6.31 60m

60m is 65.616 yards

That a .21 second difference over 65.616 yards.

That's a .128 difference (if even run 0-60) over 40 yards.

Given demps 40 time of 4.29 that'd be a 4.16 for bolt. However demps strength is early, so I'd expect his 40m time to be closer to bolt than that .128 average over 60m.

I'd be interested in finding demps 20 m splits.
 
#211
#211
Fwiw demps 6.52 60 m equates to a 3.97 40 yard

He really runs a 4.29 a .32 difference

Bolts 6.31 60m equates to a 3.85 40 yard

That'd put him again at around 4.17

However, going 60 meters really raises his average speed a lot, if we could find demps 20m and 40m that'd be the best barometer.

I still think this math is further evidence bolt at best is 4.25-4.35 range.
 
#212
#212
bleedingTNorange said:
Demps ran a 6.52 60m
Bolt ran a 6.31 60m

60m is 65.616 yards

That a .21 second difference over 65.616 yards.

That's a .128 difference (if even run 0-60) over 40 yards.

Given demps 40 time of 4.29 that'd be a 4.16 for bolt. However demps strength is early, so I'd expect his 40m time to be closer to bolt than that .128 average over 60m.

I'd be interested in finding demps 20 m splits.
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For giggles let's take what it would mean for Demps to be dead even with Bolt through 40yds. Rounded up that's 37m. That would mean Bolt would then have to increase he lead by .21 over the next 23m, being 25yds. Is it me or does that sound like an awful lot? It's really hard not to think the only way that works is if Bolt already had a lead at that 37m mark. How big it would be I don't know to figure with any reliability but damn, from dead even to .21 ahead (and it isn't like Demps is plodding all this time) in all of 25yds...I don't know man.
 
#213
#213
hndog609 said:
For giggles let's take what it would mean for Demps to be dead even with Bolt through 40yds. Rounded up that's 37m. That would mean Bolt would then have to increase he lead by .21 over the next 23m, being 25yds. Is it me or does that sound like an awful lot? It's really hard not to think the only way that works is if Bolt already had a lead at that 37m mark. How big it would be I don't know to figure with any reliability but damn, from dead even to .21 ahead (and it isn't like Demps is plodding all this time) in all of 25yds...I don't know man.
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Probably more realistic to think bolt would be up by about .10 not .21, which does in turn knock around .10 off the end time.

So add that .10 to his 40 time, and we're right back at 4.25+ range.

That's why I say, every equation I find this is the range I come up with, 4.2+
 
#214
#214
bleedingTNorange said:
Probably more realistic to think bolt would be up by about .10 not .21, which does in turn knock around .10 off the end time.

So add that .10 to his 40 time, and we're right back at 4.25+ range.

That's why I say, every equation I find this is the range I come up with, 4.2+
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Forgive me, maybe I missed something; If Bolt runs a 6.31 60m and Demps runs a 6.52 60m that doesn't have Bolt up .21 over Demps at 60m? It's the end of the day and all but even in my current state of mind that looks like a shared distance and a .21 disparity. Isn't it?
 
#215
#215
hndog609 said:
Forgive me, maybe I missed something; If Bolt runs a 6.31 60m and Demps runs a 6.52 60m that doesn't have Bolt up .21 over Demps at 60m? It's the end of the day and all but even in my current state of mind that looks like a shared distance and a .21 disparity. Isn't it?
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Yes that's correct.

What I'm saying is, 60 m is much longer than 40 yards. Demps is better early, so that .21 disparity is a bit unfair, seeing as how demps diminishes and bolt flourishes later in the race.

Demps is good about 40m and under and what I'm saying is its like the split at 40 would e much closer to .1 than .21.

If this were the case, it would change the equation i did above and thus raise bolts Ed result of 40 time that I came up with.

Not a hie deal, given all the equations that have been done. Both of us agree he's nowhere near a sub 4 guy, and IMO is around a 4.25-4.35 at best.
 
#216
#216
bleedingTNorange

You are coming up with reasonable numbers based on guess work of course. I would say he is a 4.3-4.4 guy based on him just going out there with the guys, it is clearly possible he could run under 4.3, unlikely he would run anywhere around 4.2. I mean we are using numbers based on him running countless races and heats and picking the best one. The study done on him was around a 4.35s 40, which seems reasonable to me.

I think based on times, he could compete with the NFL guys with blocks, without block I don't think it's even close... I think quite a few guys beat him. You put it on grass and you'll have even more guys beat him.

You change the race from 40 yards to 50 or 60 meters and I think he beats everyone.

I would be further surprised if Holliday lost to Johnson... I think Holliday/Demps are about as close as you can get.

If I were to pick NFL guys I would go like this:
1.) Holliday/Demps
2.) Johnson (I don't know he has a few years on him now)
3.) Ford
4.) Bey

Other guys I would have bet on in their prime like Hester, Vick, etc.
 
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#217
#217
??? so.
I know there are 100's of Quarter Horses that could beat Secretariat...... and any Thoroughbred that is bred and trained for the 1.25 to 1.5 mile race.
Bolt doesn't run or train for the 40 yard....( if he did, I would bet on the Bolt. Not because I'm a Bolt fan, but he is very very very talented.) Tell Denard Dude to enter the 40 competition. How many Sprinters and Milers could have beaten Frank Shorter (the marathon man) in a race he didn't train for? Could a 3rd String NFL Wide out, beat out Michael Jorden? yep

Excuse me.... the wife & kids are out of town and I have been to the pub..... again.
 
#218
#218
OrangeDog said:
??? so.
I know there are 100's of Quarter Horses that could beat Secretariat...... and any Thoroughbred that is bred and trained for the 1.25 to 1.5 mile race.
Bolt doesn't run or train for the 40 yard....( if he did, I would bet on the Bolt. Not because I'm a Bolt fan, but he is very very very talented.) Tell Denard Dude to enter the 40 competition. How many Sprinters and Milers could have beaten Frank Shorter (the marathon man) in a race he didn't train for? Could a 3rd String NFL Wide out, beat out Michael Jorden? yep

Excuse me.... the wife & kids are out of town and I have been to the pub..... again.
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Well, training has part to do with it, even if you see Denard's and Johnson's comments on it, they basically admit they are better trained for the event or are more prepared. However, with that said Bolts height is a real disadvantage at 40 yards, without the blocks he is going to suffer bad.

It really comes down to what makes him great at the 100 and 200m becomes more of an issue at 40 yards. He is a great sprinter though.

If someone wants to say he is a 4.2-4.3 guy that is fine and arguable, my guess if he just shows up he is going to be in the 4.3-4.4 range or slightly behind a few of the time guys.

To me the most insane time is Calvin Johnson at 239lbs. running a 4.35s at 6'5, that is crazy. Imagine him losing 30-40 lbs.
 
#219
#219
LSU-SIU said:
Well, training has part to do with it, even if you see Denard's and Johnson's comments on it, they basically admit they are better trained for the event or are more prepared. However, with that said Bolts height is a real disadvantage at 40 yards, without the blocks he is going to suffer bad.

It really comes down to what makes him great at the 100 and 200m becomes more of an issue at 40 yards. He is a great sprinter though.

If someone wants to say he is a 4.2-4.3 guy that is fine and arguable, my guess if he just shows up he is going to be in the 4.3-4.4 range or slightly behind a few of the time guys.

To me the most insane time is Calvin Johnson at 239lbs. running a 4.35s at 6'5, that is crazy. Imagine him losing 30-40 lbs.
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D. Rogers ran out of Kville and was clocked at 4.18
 
#221
#221
54d4159054da1_-_jumangi.gif
 
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#223
#223
Man I totally forgot about Denard Robinson. I had to look up what happened to him. Looks like he lasted 3 seasons with the Jaguars before being out of the NFL, then was a backup running back in the AAF for Atlanta. And now he's an assistant on the Jacksonville Dolphins (FCS) coaching staff.
 
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