DEI = Racism

#101
#101
lawgator1 said:
I am referring to the best predictor of meriting consideration for relaxed academic standards.

If you go strictly off of academic credentials you benefit those with the advantage of starting off from a strong economic position. And so if you want to get rid of AA based on race because you don't think race should be used as a proxy, then the question is, what do you use?

If a student has promise but the grades aren't quite there or the tests scores are a bit below competitive with everyone else, I'm saying that the student can apply in such a manner as to take their economic condition into consideration, black, white, brown, or purple.
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I remember seeing a study once that demonstrated affirmative action beneficiaries don't do as well academically, but you can't tell a difference between them and the rest of the population once they're in the workforce. I'll try to find it.
 
#102
#102
lawgator1 said:
I am referring to the best predictor of meriting consideration for relaxed academic standards.

If you go strictly off of academic credentials you benefit those with the advantage of starting off from a strong economic position. And so if you want to get rid of AA based on race because you don't think race should be used as a proxy, then the question is, what do you use?

If a student has promise but the grades aren't quite there or the tests scores are a bit below competitive with everyone else, I'm saying that the student can apply in such a manner as to take their economic condition into consideration, black, white, brown, or purple.
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personal history, interview, work-history if for graduate school, examples of perseverance.

I deal with this almost daily
 
#103
#103
n_huffhines said:
I remember seeing a study once that demonstrated affirmative action beneficiaries don't do as well academically, but you can't tell a difference between them and the rest of the population once they're in the workforce. I'll try to find it.
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That would be interesting to see.


volinbham said:
personal history, interview, work-history if for graduate school, examples of perseverance.

I deal with this almost daily
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I understand you do and you have your own priorities as to what makes a candidate right for your institution, as you have already articulated. Do you account in any way for the benefit, not to your institution in the short term, but to society in the long term (I'm talking generations) of admitting a student who might score a bit below other candidates across the board, but who based on your review you can tell did not have the same upbringing or advantages the others had?

Do you consider income for the family, single parent status, etc.? Surely, you would agree that those things have an effect on the student's performance over a long period of time.
 
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#104
#104
lawgator1 said:
That would be interesting to see.




I understand you do and you have your own priorities as to what makes a candidate right for your institution, as you have already articulated. Do you account in any way for the benefit, not to your institution in the short term, but to society in the long term (I'm talking generations) of admitting a student who might score a bit below other candidates across the board, but who based on your review you can tell did not have the same upbringing or advantages the others had?

Do you consider income for the family, single parent status, etc.? Surely, you would agree that those things have an effect on the student's performance over a long period of time.
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I do grad school exclusively so work history is an indicator that they can handle it. Eg. someone with 10 years real managerial experience but a UG GPA of 2.5. Someone right out of UG with a 2.6 most likely isn't ready and more importantly won't get the benefit they would if they came back after several years of working.

We try to find ways for marginal applicants to try a class and we suggest tools to help them improve their chances. However, it is worse for them and us to admit someone who isn't qualified. They waste money and as noted in a prior example can impact other students. The compassionate thing is to tell them no. It's not full proof and we probably err too much on letting people in who we shouldn't have.
 
#105
#105
volinbham said:
I do grad school exclusively so work history is an indicator that they can handle it. Eg. someone with 10 years real managerial experience but a UG GPA of 2.5. Someone right out of UG with a 2.6 most likely isn't ready and more importantly won't get the benefit they would if they came back after several years of working.

We try to find ways for marginal applicants to try a class and we suggest tools to help them improve their chances. However, it is worse for them and us to admit someone who isn't qualified. They waste money and as noted in a prior example can impact other students. The compassionate thing is to tell them no. It's not full proof and we probably err too much on letting people in who we shouldn't have.
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Grad school is going to be different from what I'm talking about in a lot of respects. People go to grad school with career paths in mind, or very close to it, so they are going to often have the credentials they know they minimally need.
 
#106
#106
I'll add since you asked about long term impact: if we admit applicants that do complete the program but remain marginal then they take our brand to the workplace and in sufficient numbers they hurt opportunity for future (and existing) alums. It doesn't take many bad hires out of a program for an employer to look elsewhere in the future.

Also, kicking someone out 1/2 way through a program is bad for them and us.
 
#107
#107
lawgator1 said:
Grad school is going to be different from what I'm talking about in a lot of respects. People go to grad school with career paths in mind, or very close to it, so they are going to often have the credentials they know they minimally need.
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you'd be surprised
 
#108
#108
other than a relatively small # of schools, where you go doesn't make a huge difference.

state schools; particularly directionals (e.g. ETSU or UWF) already have admission standards low enough to handle anyone who is mildly qualified at best regardless of background.

there are tiers below that for people to overcome background educational issues

it is foolish to admit people who will not succeed. better to find alternate pathways for them
 
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#110
#110
goCp7si.gif
 
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#112
#112
Orangeburst said:
Spain to introduce gender quotas in boards of businesses, cabinet
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However, there might be a way around it, as in mid-February Spain passed a law that allows people to change their gender on identification documents without the need for psychological or other medical appraisals from the age of 16. So if Sánchez wants to keep his cabinet intact, one of the women holding ministerial positions will simply have to arrange for a new set of documents.
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Loved that part. You mean I can keep my cabinet level position, I just need to check this box and all is legal? Lol.
 
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#113
#113
volinbham said:
while I'm on a rant - the removal of advanced classes in high school as some districts are doing is criminal. punishing the highly qualified because it may cause embarrassment for the less qualified is a disastrous policy.
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Real violence being perpetrated on Asian Americans (mostly) - and it’s being perpetrated by the got-damn State.
 
#114
#114
Oh and have any of you seen this new push that teaching about Communism is racist towards Asians and Asian Americans?
 
#117
#117
volinbham said:
so the irony is that race-based diversity admissions does revert to the some races can't do it on their own. economic status would be a closer indicator to who needs help but instead we often use race.

I deal with graduate admissions decisions virtually every day. Our over arching concern is avoiding putting people into situations where they will fail and/or impact the learning of others (eg. team work, needing the work to be dumbed down, etc). We are under pressure to keep enrollments high as that's our primary source of revenue but we help no one if we admit people who are not qualified.
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God forbid anyone fail anymore. Your position is seemingly unwinnable actually.

But hey like LG says, if they can't meet the standards, lower the standards. But ya'll can rest easy when you fly though. I won't relax my standards one bit on the pilots I evaluate. Man, woman, gay, straight, black, white, short, ugly, it doesn't matter to me. It is a shame that we can't treat ALL jobs like that. I guess the left really doesn't care about American exceptionalism.
 
#118
#118
SpaceCoastVol said:
God forbid anyone fail anymore. Your position is seemingly unwinnable actually.

But hey like LG says, if they can't meet the standards, lower the standards. But ya'll can rest easy when you fly though. I won't relax my standards one bit on the pilots I evaluate. Man, woman, gay, straight, black, white, short, ugly, it doesn't matter to me. It is a shame that we can't treat ALL jobs like that. I guess the left really doesn't care about American exceptionalism.
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With any progressive program or agenda, comes the progressive lowering of standards.

Schools
Military
Corporate

Doesn’t matter.
 
#119
#119
85SugarVol said:
With any progressive program or agenda, comes the progressive lowering of standards.

Schools
Military
Corporate

Doesn’t matter.
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It's open and blatant racism in most cases, too. People like LG expect any minority to be unable to meet any standard at all. So instead of working with them to get them to a right standard, they lower it, assuming every single minority is too stupid or too poor to achieve anything.

I see it all the time with my wife. Because she is an immigrant, they assume she came here only to "better her life" and she's "oppressed" (one person went so far as to tell her I naturally oppress her because I'm white). Joke's on all of them though- she's a well-educated woman from an extremely wealthy and successful family down there that moved to the US largely to be with her mother who had moved here. Meanwhile, I grew up in a middle class family whose roots are agriculture and military service, whose first college attendees were only in the 1950s. Boy, I sure am privileged!
 
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#120
#120
ButchPlz said:
It's open and blatant racism in most cases, too. People like LG expect any minority to be unable to meet any standard at all. So instead of working with them to get them to a right standard, they lower it, assuming every single minority is too stupid or too poor to achieve anything.

I see it all the time with my wife. Because she is an immigrant, they assume she came here only to "better her life" and she's "oppressed" (one person went so far as to tell her I naturally oppress her because I'm white). Joke's on all of them though- she's a well-educated woman from an extremely wealthy and successful family down there that moved to the US largely to be with her mother who had moved here. Meanwhile, I grew up in a middle class family whose roots are agriculture and military service, whose first college attendees were only in the 1950s. Boy, I sure am privileged!
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Soft bigotry. Their favorite kind.
 
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