Defensive scheme/personnel fit under new coach

[BillyHoyleVol]

I was looking over next years roster and it seems that if we made the switch back to a 4 man front under the new coaches, we'd be extremely thin at defensive end. The only guys that truly fit that mold are Williams, Smith, Miller...maybe Lewis (if he's even healthy). I could see Maggitt playing some with his hand down...maybe a few of the current LB commits. We would have to try and fit a guy like Trent Taylor into the position. At 285-290 lbs, he's certainly not a great fit size wise. He even played some at nose in spring and fall camps.

Just a thought and a point of discussion that doesnt really have anything to do with the who or when of the search....no one has to take sides...just good football talk.

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

Not much anywhere on defense. Production wise anyway.

 

[WestTenn]

Carr

 

[Recoil]

I'm no football expert, but would it be so bad to have 4 big bodied D-Linemen? Obviously in passing situations, you'd put your best edge rushers out there, but all in all, it doesn't seem so bad to have a collection of bigs across that front 4, would it?

 

[Ihavebleadusmce5]

If we do go back to a 4 man front, the problem with big guys at end are that they have to keep outside containment and this is difficult for them. Most 40 fronts are going to have DE that are for the 245 to 265 range. In the 30 front they are responsible for their gap only, which is usually the 3 or 5 technique and needs big bodies and less speed to hold up against Tackles and guards. I think if we go back to the 40 we will see Jordan Williams back down there and the other guys who play Jack LB for us this year.

 

[The Real Da'Rick]

I agree with Bull. If we did do 4 down lineman, granted that two or three of them will be considered "slow" we will have, if healthy, 3 extremely fast and athletic linebackers behind them next season.

 

[orangeluvr]

The 4-3 is better against the run and better protects the edge from gash plays. :twocents: :question:

 

[Recoil]

If we do go back to a 4 man front, the problem with big guys at end are that they have to keep outside containment and this is difficult for them. Most 40 fronts are going to have DE that are for the 245 to 265 range. In the 30 front they are responsible for their gap only, which is usually the 3 or 5 technique and needs big bodies and less speed to hold up against Tackles and guards. I think if we go back to the 40 we will see Jordan Williams back down there and the other guys who play Jack LB for us this year.

So if I understand correctly, the teams who run speed plays to the edge would give us fits. Looking at the 2013 schedule, it would appear that Oregon and Mizzu would be the games where we'd be most vulnerable.

NOTE- I'm not implying we'll be good enough to hang with the smashmouths on the rest of the schedule, just referring to the schematic challenges speed teams could cause.

 

[Ihavebleadusmce5]

The spread gives everyone fits who do not have strong DT to take away the inside read. To answer your question , yes we could have serious problems against Oregon and other spread teams, but I dont want to count our kids out just yet. Here is a look at what I think might happen if we go bac to 40 front.

DT
Couch
Phillips (if he stays or may be gone already)
O'Brien
McCullers
Sentimore
Clark
Hood

SDE
Saulsberry
Walls
Miller
Taylor

WDE
Smith
Williams
LaTroy Lewis

Not in any kind of order, other than where I think they will playing next year

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

Stanford LSU & AU gave a nice blueprint on stopping Oregon. Don't over pursue, don't get blocked out of your gap and tackle soundly. Novel concept to be sure, but with any luck it may catch on.

 

[Ihavebleadusmce5]

That's what I'm saying Pimpvol those teams Have one thing common Great DTs

 

[Ashevillevol]

I agree with Bull. If we did do 4 down lineman, granted that two or three of them will be considered "slow" we will have, if healthy, 3 extremely fast and athletic linebackers behind them next season.

That's just what we need.... more slow. Where were all these extremely fast and athletic linebackers this year? All any team had to do against us was break contain on the outside and we didn't have anybody who could catch them, linebackers or cover people.

 

[Recoil]

That's what I'm saying Pimpvol those teams Have one thing common Great DTs

Or in the case of Stanford, large, disciplined DTs.

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

That's just what we need.... more slow. Where were all these extremely fast and athletic linebackers this year? All any team had to do against us was break contain on the outside and we didn't have anybody who could catch them, linebackers or cover people.

We have not been recruiting at the top of this league by any means. Our defensive players are a joke to any good offensive team.

 

[Ihavebleadusmce5]

Exactly, in the case of Stanford. I think we are getting better players, but as our o-line as an example. It takes time for young talent to gain strength and experience to become a more sound disciplined defense. And yes we are lacking in speed to say the least

 

[UTC Vol Fan]

I think you might see Justin King go to linebacker if we went back to the 4-3. I think Maggit and Jordan Williams would be the starting DE's and Jac Smith and C. Miller backing up those guys with McCullers, Couch and Sentimore as the DT's and Justin King, D. Sapp, Christian Harris and Brent Brewer would battle for the two outside LB's.

We have to get more speed on defense and I think Maggit has only average speed as an OLB were as he has elite speed for DE. Chavis always used the undersized but speedy linebackers successfully. I think Brewer fits that mold, just not sure he can tackle good enough, but he was only a year off the acl injury so hopefully he comes around next year.

 

[SCvol333]

i know this is a bit of an oversimplification but the 4 closest guys to the ball and the next 3 guys closest to the ball against the run would have been exactly the same regardless of 3-4 or 4-3

you can say Jsmith or Jwilliams is a WDE or you can say they are a jack LB - either way it is the weakside guy that rushes the passer or takes on a OL against the run so doesnt really matter what you want to call it

if the players can't make plays it really doesnt matter what scheme you are running - all they would be doing is getting gashed at a new position

 

[VOLINVONORE]

I was looking over next years roster and it seems that if we made the switch back to a 4 man front under the new coaches, we'd be extremely thin at defensive end. The only guys that truly fit that mold are Williams, Smith, Miller...maybe Lewis (if he's even healthy). I could see Maggitt playing some with his hand down...maybe a few of the current LB commits. We would have to try and fit a guy like Trent Taylor into the position. At 285-290 lbs, he's certainly not a great fit size wise. He even played some at nose in spring and fall camps.

Just a thought and a point of discussion that doesnt really have anything to do with the who or when of the search....no one has to take sides...just good football talk.

I will let the new coach evaluate his roster and make the decision and I think everyone else should rely on him. If not, why hire a coach at all???

 

[terrypedigo]

We need linebackers that are big and fast.

 

[Gardere]

The 4-3 is better against the run and better protects the edge from gash plays. :twocents: :question:

In the NFL, the 3-4 teams play 3-4 to stop the run and 4-3 on pass plays.

 

[Ashevillevol]

i know this is a bit of an oversimplification but the 4 closest guys to the ball and the next 3 guys closest to the ball against the run would have been exactly the same regardless of 3-4 or 4-3

you can say Jsmith or Jwilliams is a WDE or you can say they are a jack LB - either way it is the weakside guy that rushes the passer or takes on a OL against the run so doesnt really matter what you want to call it

if the players can't make plays it really doesnt matter what scheme you are running - all they would be doing is getting gashed at a new position

In a normal scenario, the seven you would play in a 4-3 would not be the seven you would play in 3-4. That is why you have to recruit the players it takes to play that defense. We are kind of stuck in no-man's land now with not enough personnel to play either one effectively.

 

[keithpowers]

In the NFL, the 3-4 teams play 3-4 to stop the run and 4-3 on pass plays.

That assumes gap responsibility and discipline, as well as sound tackling, none of which this team has excelled in doing consistently (outside of Big Dan)...

 

[orangebloodgmc]

We need linebackers that are big and fast.

I hope we get a JUCO, maybe two, even.

 

[SCSmokey]

Ellis Johnson would be a nice pull