Defending Fulmer

#501
#501
Incipient said:
Short-sighted and/or unable to accurately evaluate your own abilities are not the same thing as self-serving. :hi:
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He knew exactly what his abilities were, that's why he always hired down so no assistant could take his job.

Self serving is building apartments when he should be evaluating recruits.
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#502
#502
bamacheats said:
That's exactly what it means! If Failure was a true VFL, he would have always done what was best for the program, not himself. Phat is arrogant and self serving. He spent too much time trying to make money on real estate and developments than on the program. Now he's stealing millions.

VFL? Yeah right!
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Not a Fulmer fan but "always" is some pretty unreasonable criteria. By this line of thinking, Eric Berry isn't a VFL because it would have been better for the program if he stayed another year.
 
#503
#503
I'm beginning to think that some of the posters who say all of fulmers time here sucked were actually kids and never saw him coach until the 2000's. Yeah we were owned by Florida in the 90's but were title contenders every year. To say fulmer completely sucked is way over top. And yes his time was over in the 2000's. He peaked in 2001 until sec champ game
 
#504
#504
Incipient said:
Better than 90s Fulmer? I don't think it's possible to do that good a job in today's SEC.

Better than 2005-2008 Fulmer? The list isn't short at all, but you can't really evaluate the replacement until they have their own guys. 2012-2015 Dooley is the person you need to compare to 2005-2008 Fulmer. If he falls short, you have an argument. But we won't know for quite a while whether he does or not, so there's no point in rehashing the same thing over and over.
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Not really sure 3 years to rebuild a trainwreck is quite the same as over 10 years with a team that won the SEC a couple of years before you took over...
 
#505
#505
bamacheats said:
He knew exactly what his abilities were, that's why he always hired down so no assistant could take his job.

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Oh come on, that's as crazy as saying that the 2008 Auburn team was a legit precursor to the title.
 
#506
#506
kptvol said:
Not really sure 3 years to rebuild a trainwreck is quite the same as over 10 years with a team that won the SEC a couple of years before you took over...
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No, it definitely puts Dooley at some disadvantage, but it's probably as fair as you're going to get. As long as you don't include 2010 and 2011, I won't complain much.
 
#509
#509
kptvol said:
He definitely didn't do a good job in the hiring and firing department, regardless of his motivations.
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This is true. But it seemed to be a pretty obvious loyalty problem, not a fear that his assistants would take his job.
 
#511
#511
Incipient said:
This is true. But it seemed to be a pretty obvious loyalty problem, not a fear that his assistants would take his job.
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Or you hire/manage coaches that aren't a threat to your job or to leave for another opportunity. I think he did a little of that as well.
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#512
#512
bamacheats said:
Do the folks who win the Powerball have better skills than the others that lose? Is PokerStars.net and FullTilt in a race to hire them because of these skills?
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:crazy:
Stupid ass comparison, yeah fulmer lucked up and went back to back for sec titles and a NC in the 90's. It was pure damn luck I tell ya.
 
#513
#513
utgibbs said:
His "mediocre" end included three SECCG appearance which is what every Vol fan should want at the start of every season.

Yes, it is important to get over, but we happened to hit three eventual NC in those games. In 2001, we actually fell victim to the terrorists whose murderous actions moved the Florida game to the week before the SECCG.

In addition, what most of us realized was Phil Fulmer was the best coach for Tennessee at the time. Without the Hambone Experiment, 2008 is still mediocre, but a winning season. We also realize that 2005 and 2008 were aberrations with the worst QB play ever in NCAA history from two NFL QBs - survivable in the ACC, deadly in the SEC. And yet, we still would have had a winning season. All the coaching in the world could not slow the game down for Crompton, who had five different OCs. In addition, the landscape of the SEC changed in the noughties - with four different NC - which makes coaching at Tennessee one of the most difficult in the country - and still we were competing for the SECC.

Subsequently, we have been proven right as rain. After all the machinations, Hambone appoints Lane Kiffin if and only if his Daddy is part of the package. In essence, he hired a septugenarian coordinator to replace our 2nd greatest coach ever. Foolishness could not be writ more large. When we had the great fortune of the "worst SEC coaching hire in 60 years" dashing to the Left Coast, Hambone still could not secure a proven winner.

I have said many times, I have some sympathy for the FCF crowd. Phil did let his foot off the gas for a couple of years. I personally think it was like Michael Jordan playing baseball. I think Phil was returning full circle, ready for one last "decade of dominance" push. He got unlucky in 2001 and 2007 (nothing he could do about 2004). I feel the fire was back. He had a better recruiting class lined up than the eventual Kiffin class (now the most epic bust class in 60 years of SEC football), and one that fits needs. The players we would have had under Fulmer would have had us in contention for the SECE last year.

But Hambone exhibited all the foolishness of the GoF on this board. This board was thrilled with a coach because he was mentioned (pejoratively, actually) in Lil Wayne songs. This was "the way forward." This was "The Plan." Meanwhile, the core was alienated, and that coach - well, is a symbol of market failure and the End Times of Capitalism. He will stay at his "dream job" only as long as they have penalties to pay.

The foolishness could not be more alive in vivid technicolor today.
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So, hypothetically, if someone wasn't very interested in hearing rehashed imaginary futures based on selectively revised past interspersed with incorrect popular culture references and misguided economics lessons that are punctuated with misused and repeated meaningless phrases like GoF, GSM, and bourgeois intended to prove a point based on ill logic that is over two years stale, would there be any reason not to place you on ignore?

I would really like your input. I am having a hard time thinking of any.
 
#514
#514
Big Orange 1 said:
Ok so the 1998 National Championship meant nothing right? he didnt beat Saban, Meyer, Richt or Miles. So it's null and void right?
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We could have easily been 8-3 in the regular season in '98. Syracuse, Florida, Arkansas. Would you make the argument that it was great coaching that won those games, or one great play by one individual player that turned the tide in all three?

Go back and watch the games before you respond.

Go Vols.
 
#515
#515
strongtower said:
:crazy:
Stupid ass comparison, yeah fulmer lucked up and went back to back for sec titles and a NC in the 90's. It was pure damn luck I tell ya.
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Even a blind man wearing Orange tinted glasses could see the massive string of lucky breaks in 98. Failure had an equally stacked team in 99, minus the luck. Where was the coaching and strategic genius in 99?
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#516
#516
VKAman said:
Not a Fulmer fan but "always" is some pretty unreasonable criteria. By this line of thinking, Eric Berry isn't a VFL because it would have been better for the program if he stayed another year.
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Hyperbole. Requires common sense to understand it. Sorry.
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#517
#517
bamacheats said:
Even a blind man wearing Orange tinted glasses could see the massive string of lucky breaks in 98. Failure had an equally stacked team in 99, minus the luck. Where was the coaching and strategic genius in 99?
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Most NC teams have a little luck. Not giving pf any credit for an undefeated sec and NC season makes it appear you have an agenda. I don't understand why people can't separate his 90's coaching from his later coaching, and judge them independently.
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#518
#518
bamacheats said:
Even a blind man wearing Orange tinted glasses could see the massive string of lucky breaks in 98. Failure had an equally stacked team in 99, minus the luck. Where was the coaching and strategic genius in 99?
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Fortune is always a part of it. I've got no problem honoring Fulmer as one of the best during his first decade. He put teams on the field that were capable of playing at a championship level regularly. Do that often enough and you win championships. Honestly, I don't think in the competitive environment that is today's SEC you can ask for any more.

But 2001 was the last time he fielded a team of that caliber. By '08, it was clear the program, no longer at the top, was getting farther, not closer, to that level. Firing him then, though, has allowed gibbs to go ahead and claim the imaginary '09 east and, I would think, the imaginary '10 SEC building to this year's imaginary NC. While I am happy for him in a sad sort of way, I have a hard time understanding how anybody concerned with actual, as opposed to pretend, football could make a good faith argument that it wasn't time for a change.
 
#519
#519
pl3 said:
Most NC teams have a little luck. Not giving pf any credit for an undefeated sec and NC season makes it appear you have an agenda. I don't understand why people can't separate his 90's coaching from his later coaching, and judge them independantly.
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Where did I say his NC didn't count? I have enough memorabilia to say it does.

Bottom line...Failure got lazy. He was good enough to compensate for some of the idiots that he hired, but he got too greedy with Thunder and a couple others building apartments in the Fort and then he wasn't compensating for the idiots. Instead of upgrading his staff, he downgraded. His biggest bust was Johnny Long.
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#520
#520
bamacheats said:
Where did I say his NC didn't count? I have enough memorabilia to say it does.

Bottom line...Failure got lazy. He was good enough to compensate for some of the idiots that he hired, but he got too greedy with Thunder and a couple others building apartments in the Fort and then he wasn't compensating for the idiots. Instead of upgrading his staff, he downgraded. His biggest bust was Johnny Long.
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You are 100% correct. He delegated a lot and delegated to the wrong people too. It happens. And people get lazy when they reach a goal. Only the elite continue to reach higher.
It's quite ok to respect him for the product he put on the field during his great run, and call him out for his failures after the NC. Seems like many on here can't do that. Calling him "Failmur" and talking about Lane Kiffin being a better football coach are about as bad as gibbs' skewed view.
 
#521
#521
bamacheats said:
Even a blind man wearing Orange tinted glasses could see the massive string of lucky breaks in 98. Failure had an equally stacked team in 99, minus the luck. Where was the coaching and strategic genius in 99?
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Yeah he lucked his whole way through almost 10 years in the 90's

You can hate fulmer all you want but don't be a dumbass :crazy:
 
#522
#522
pl3 said:
Most NC teams have a little luck. Not giving pf any credit for an undefeated sec and NC season makes it appear you have an agenda. I don't understand why people can't separate his 90's coaching from his later coaching, and judge them independently.
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+1
fulmer in 90's=great memories
Fulmer in 2000's=time has passed
 
#523
#523
bamacheats said:
Where did I say his NC didn't count? I have enough memorabilia to say it does.

Bottom line...Failure got lazy. He was good enough to compensate for some of the idiots that he hired, but he got too greedy with Thunder and a couple others building apartments in the Fort and then he wasn't compensating for the idiots. Instead of upgrading his staff, he downgraded. His biggest bust was Johnny Long.
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Wow you have memorabilia from a coach and his team who you claim is a waist that won a NC, please stop embarrassing yourself and go away. :eek:hmy::crazy:
 
#524
#524
strongtower said:
Yeah he lucked his whole way through almost 10 years in the 90's

You can hate fulmer all you want but don't be a dumbass :crazy:
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Exactly! Because recognizing the lucky breaks in the year of 1998 equates to the entire decade of the 90s! At least you mentioned "dumbass".
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