Death of a program

#126
#126
It's a new day now though. The money given to the "power 5" largely prevents teams from becoming irrelevant. Being in the SEC and having the kind of money we have basically means we are always one hire away from competing again. We may have the right hire now. But pretty much no team in the SEC is ever going to just fade away (unless the whole scheme changes and the go to super conferences or something)
 
#127
#127
This is just silly talk. We will be back with one good coach. It's Pruitt or the next one, but it will happen and when the right guy has the job, 2-3 years you will see serious improvement.

We have cash, facilities, fans, tradition, etc. My dad graduated from OU. I watched every coach after Switzer and they we're terrible. Big game bob takes the reigns, and it didn't take long. Same with bama, USC, etc
 
#132
#132
NEOCON said:
How close is UT to becoming a dead football program?

This is a serious question.

There have been football programs in the past like Army, Navy, Minnesota, SMU that we’re at the very top.

Minnesota claims 7 national championships. We can debate the 7 but the fact is they use to be very good. Now, they are honestly nothing.

So how many more years of this can happen before the stadium gets empty, the fans stop caring, and suddenly 7 or 6 wins becomes the acceptable norm?

The 7 or 6 win norm part I think is very close to happening, I fear.

What are you honest thoughts on how much more time TN has to turn this around?
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Too much money and investment to fail. You could add up all the investments of the above schools and multiply by 10 and you wouldn't be close to UT investment. UT is top 10 revenue producer with top 5 fanbase support, ranked above most other SEC powers. We'll be back, and don't think it will take forever, once Pruitt gets a couple classes on campus. We've had regime change because it was necessary. Can't expect these guys to fix everything over night. I really do think we've got the right guys, including Fulmer to get us back.
 
#133
#133
BeecherVol said:
You do realize the uproar against Schiano started within the athletic department and not the fanbase?

Those that pulled the plug were getting an ear full before the public ever wind of it.

Big fan of Phil's but he was on cruise control until he passed Gen Neyland in wins while Bama and UF were leaving us in the past and our roster was headed toward the ditch. He needs to look no further than the mirror and Mike Hamilton for the why and when. The first family of UT could have stopped it but they let Hamilton go because he had sold Kiffin so well.
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I won’t dispute that but it doesn’t make it any less true. Schiano may have not been the answer and Pruitt as well but only one of those coaches had a proven track record as a head coach. The complaint with Pruitt seems to be he is learning on the job. That would have not been an issue with Schiano
 
#134
#134
Rumph at Knoxville QB club. Sums it up. Think these guys will turn us...ugly baby and all... two classic quotes:
“We’re not going to allow them to quit. Quitting is not an option. This is not a multiple choice deal. This is a straight essay.’’
“Right now it’s an ugly baby,’’ Rumph said. “Let’s just be honest, but we got to take that baby home, all right. We got to own that baby. We got to nurture it, we got to love it, we got to support it, we got to discipline it. We got to teach it.

But Rumph asked folks Monday at the Knoxville Quarterback Club to hang with this team.

“It’s coming,’’ said Rumph, UT’s co-defensive coordinator. “I don’t know when … I know it’s been hard, it’s been a long time. It’s been tough.

“I wish I could say we’re going to win the rest of them, but I promise you before long we will put a product on the field you’ll be proud of.’’

When? Who knows?

The immediate future for this season isn’t bright. The Vols visit No. 2 Georgia this Saturday, then face, in a row, Auburn, Alabama and South Carolina.

Rumph was told the UT team quit last year and he was asked how to you prevent that from happening this season.

“They’re going to respond,’’ Rumph said. “We’re not going to allow them to quit. Quitting is not an option. This is not a multiple choice deal. This is a straight essay.’’

Rumph said if players tried to quit, the coaching staff might get in trouble.

“You’d probably get fired because there’d be some coaches choking some kids out,’’ Rumph said, sternly but not seriously.

The personable Rumph had an interesting way of describing UT’s predicament.

“Right now it’s an ugly baby,’’ Rumph said. “Let’s just be honest, but we got to take that baby home, all right. We got to own that baby. We got to nurture it, we got to love it, we got to support it, we got to discipline it. We got to teach it.

“One day, hopefully sooner than later, this baby’s going to grow up. It’s going to be everything that we want it to be, and this program will be the program that it once was because if it was done before, it can be done again.’’

What is biggest challenge to turning around UT program?

“It ain’t about the Xs and Os,’’ Rumph said. “It’s about the Jimmys and Joes. We’ve got to get some more players in here.’’

Rumph said the starters are “pretty good’’ but there’s a big gap from first and second team.

What do you say to recruits after a blowout loss like UT had against Florida?

“I tell them, `You see why we’re recruiting you?’’’ Rumph said.
 
#135
#135
NEOCON said:
How close is UT to becoming a dead football program?

This is a serious question.

There have been football programs in the past like Army, Navy, Minnesota, SMU that we’re at the very top.

Minnesota claims 7 national championships. We can debate the 7 but the fact is they use to be very good. Now, they are honestly nothing.

So how many more years of this can happen before the stadium gets empty, the fans stop caring, and suddenly 7 or 6 wins becomes the acceptable norm?

The 7 or 6 win norm part I think is very close to happening, I fear.

What are you honest thoughts on how much more time TN has to turn this around?
Click to expand...
The difference is that UT isn’t a forgotten program. It has the budget, alumni and facilities. Minnesota has 50k seat stadium. There is no comparison. UTs problem has been incompetent administration.

The rebuilding job is tougher because you are now dealing with a coach that was the 8th choice and has to learn to be a head coach. When is the last time Saban called a defense?
With the $$ spent Pruitt should have hired experienced, seasoned play callers. He didn’t.

Pruitt would have benefited from some folks that had a little more seasoning.
 
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#136
#136
Phil Fulmer for all his flaws was still a great coach even in his occasional down years. He has proven it isn’t easy to win at Tennessee. It would have been a much better decision to groom an up and coming coach under CPF which would have allowed him to retire with his replacement already transitioned. Instead, the AD and fans rushed the decision.
 
#137
#137
NEOCON said:
How close is UT to becoming a dead football program?

This is a serious question.

There have been football programs in the past like Army, Navy, Minnesota, SMU that we’re at the very top.

Minnesota claims 7 national championships. We can debate the 7 but the fact is they use to be very good. Now, they are honestly nothing.

So how many more years of this can happen before the stadium gets empty, the fans stop caring, and suddenly 7 or 6 wins becomes the acceptable norm?

The 7 or 6 win norm part I think is very close to happening, I fear.

What are you honest thoughts on how much more time TN has to turn this around?
Click to expand...

We were worse when Majors took over in 77.
Bama was crap from 95 until 09!
Georgia sucked for 25 yrs!
Clemson sucked for 30 yrs till 2013

Florida State is down
Nebraska is down
Texas is down
Arkansas is down
UCLA is down
USC is down
Miami hasn’t done crap in 20 yrs


A lot of great historical programs are struggling. It cyclical. We will rise again!

Go Vols
 
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#138
#138
1967vol said:
With the exception of a time about 20 years ago, Tennessee football has been average in the SEC, which is about where it should be, with a few years of exceptional. But, average is the "steady-state".
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I would take average over the status quo... but that is average with some memorable peaks as well.
 
#139
#139
landscapingvol said:
I won’t dispute that but it doesn’t make it any less true. Schiano may have not been the answer and Pruitt as well but only one of those coaches had a proven track record as a head coach. The complaint with Pruitt seems to be he is learning on the job. That would have not been an issue with Schiano
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Schiano is 5 years removed from his last HC gig (7 in college) and working for Meyer for a reason. Both would have been a gamble just from the football aspect. One is a known jack@zz
 
#140
#140
VolFan..But said:
Many of these programs where down for 10, 20 and in the case of USC, closer to 30 years. After destroying the program in 2008, we are in the midst. It will be back. Back is relative. It never was elite except for the Hall of Famer's reign.
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The program wasn’t destroyed by firing Fulmer. Subsequent decisions are the main culprit.
 
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#141
#141
landscapingvol said:
We are already there. The blame lies with a lot of people including the fans, players, coaches, AD, and the University leadership. The fans were wrong for clamoring to have Fulmer fired and for the Schiano fiasco. The AD should have never listened to either. We have become a liability in some ways. A lot of former players either openly criticize the university or do not support it especially more current alumni. Several terrible coaches in a row have created an unending cycle of poor play and atmosphere of losing. Mike Hamilton and Dave Hart were terrible hires. The university hasn’t supported the football program with the level of support that is necessary to compete annually in the SEC which has led to a decrease in funding and support for other sports as well. The National landscape has changed in terms of perception when it comes to UT football. This generation views UT as irrelevant and they aren’t wrong. There are only a couple former Vols that are still relevant in the NFL and there is no hope of that changing anytime soon on the horizon. Many recruits have either left UT and had better results or stayed and grossly underperformed.
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Fulmer was on the decline and this mess started under him. He went a decade without winning the SEC, had 2 losing season in 4 years despite one of them being a preseason top 3 team (2005), and we were no longer competitive against good teams.
 
#142
#142
The program is not dead, no even close. While I admit that we probably wont win more than 1 or 2 more games this year, we are not dead. The main problem with this team as I see it, is the fact that we are a very weak team. We have NO strength at the point of attack on either side of the ball. Cant blame current staff for lack of Strength & Conditioning, when you have 4 different Strength coaches in 5 years. I see posters on here complaining about the OC and O-line coach, but when your O-line is getting beat at the line of scrimmage, due to lack of strength, coaching cant fix that. I don't see much changing until CJP can straighten this mess out.
 
#143
#143
NEOCON said:
How close is UT to becoming a dead football program?

This is a serious question.

There have been football programs in the past like Army, Navy, Minnesota, SMU that we’re at the very top.

Minnesota claims 7 national championships. We can debate the 7 but the fact is they use to be very good. Now, they are honestly nothing.

So how many more years of this can happen before the stadium gets empty, the fans stop caring, and suddenly 7 or 6 wins becomes the acceptable norm?

The 7 or 6 win norm part I think is very close to happening, I fear.

What are you honest thoughts on how much more time TN has to turn this around?
Click to expand...

We have been thru this 4 times in a ten year period. It is obvious that no proven,top head coach will take this job. We continue to make severance payments to former coaches. Fans are starting to become un interested. Recruits can't remember us as a winning program
So I say that if things don't get considerably better in 5 years,then that is it
 
#144
#144
cncchris33 said:
I told my wife the exact same thing Saturday night. Tennessee football no longer lords over my fall Saturdays after what I sat thru two days ago. 10 years is enough. My mental health cannot take the comedy of errors that I put it thru every Saturday for 3 months out of the year.

I respect the idea that many will find that to be a fair weather fan attitude, and I won't fight hard to argue otherwise except to say when you see storm clouds and high seas for 10 straight years, you sort of just come to expect it and lose hope. I hope they win me back over one day. Until then, I'll spend time with my family.
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Its our fault Bama is so loaded. They made the big hire and we made the small hire. Now they have a war chest in excess of 200 million, 5 * players sitting on the bench and steamrolling everyone they play. We did not respond to the recruiting war and thought the players we were getting would suffice to keep butts in the seats. It did, but the players were not the same level as those at Bama and now UGA, which allowed them to win and eventually suck up all the good talent that would normally have been spread around the league. They broke the old mold and players are willing to sit on their bench rather than go to inferior programs for playing time.
 
#145
#145
NEOCON said:
How close is UT to becoming a dead football program?

This is a serious question.

There have been football programs in the past like Army, Navy, Minnesota, SMU that we’re at the very top.

Minnesota claims 7 national championships. We can debate the 7 but the fact is they use to be very good. Now, they are honestly nothing.

So how many more years of this can happen before the stadium gets empty, the fans stop caring, and suddenly 7 or 6 wins becomes the acceptable norm?

The 7 or 6 win norm part I think is very close to happening, I fear.

What are you honest thoughts on how much more time TN has to turn this around?
Click to expand...
The 2019 class looks very good. The 2018 group has already started in games this year. With experience, this team will get back being competitive in all their games, even UGA or Bama. I think we need a smart pocket passing QB. JT Shrout is better suited for SEC play. A losing mentality can only be purged. It is very hard to change behaviors- much easier to push folks out.
 
#146
#146
tennesseeduke said:
We were worse when Majors took over in 77.
Bama was crap from 95 until 09!
Georgia sucked for 25 yrs!
Clemson sucked for 30 yrs till 2013

Florida State is down
Nebraska is down
Texas is down
Arkansas is down
UCLA is down
USC is down
Miami hasn’t done crap in 20 yrs


A lot of great historical programs are struggling. It cyclical. We will rise again!

Go Vols
Click to expand...


I think football in general is down. Alabama is dang good but if you put their current team back in the 90's could it year in and year out survive Florida, Tennessee, Nebraska, etc. I don't think over all there is the talent in College Football that there was in the 80s and 90's.

I hope you are right and things come back around.
 
#147
#147
The program dies when fans start thinking like this and quit attending games. We were 4-8 last year! I have no clue why anyone thought this year would be any different under coach Pruitt. Our absence from relevancy doesn’t just have to do with the bad hires we’ve made. Think about the AD’s we’ve had that truly did not care about Tennessee. The issue isn’t on the surface, it is deep in the core. But, I believe we have fixed that problem with Fulmer. Look what he did with ETSU! He is a Tennessee boy threw and threw. Stay patient guys! What do you have to lose? I don’t see you out on the field taking a physical and mental beating. We have to support the process. Go Vols
 
#148
#148
This may not be comforting but remember this. In 1990 in Steve Spurrier's first year as Florida's head coach, the Gators lost to Tennessee 45 to 3, they had SIX turnovers. Spurrier went on to become the greatest coach Florida ever had.
 
#149
#149
I would like to highlight Lane Kiffin in this discussion. When he left and made us seem like a stepping stone program it cheapened our stock.
 
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#150
#150
NEOCON said:
How close is UT to becoming a dead football program?

This is a serious question.

There have been football programs in the past like Army, Navy, Minnesota, SMU that we’re at the very top.

Minnesota claims 7 national championships. We can debate the 7 but the fact is they use to be very good. Now, they are honestly nothing.

So how many more years of this can happen before the stadium gets empty, the fans stop caring, and suddenly 7 or 6 wins becomes the acceptable norm?

The 7 or 6 win norm part I think is very close to happening, I fear.

What are you honest thoughts on how much more time TN has to turn this around?
Click to expand...
The key difference between Minnesota and us is money. There's other factors too, like location.

As long as we have a top 10 revenue producing program, we will be "relevant".

At some point the losses catch up, people stop caring, the team gets defunded and then we become Arkansas. We aren't there yet.

The question is, how have we been bad for so long with so many resources? The answer is systemic incompetance at every level of the AD.
 
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