Dave Hart To Speak To Media Tomorrow at 1pm

[triad280]

Where is innocent until proven guilty? Where is the right to face your accusers and have a speedy trial? When did it become proper to trample an individual's rights to appease certain grievance groups? Off the tracks...way off the tracks. Insanity.

It's gone the way of the dodo,the steam engine, dial up Internet and AOL

 

[Foster's Tacos]

All the hipsters in the school gathering around. Seen enough neckbeards, typewriters, and nose piercings to make me sick. :hi:

Don't forget the skinny jeans

 

[ddd]

But details about the coverup in FSU's case came out fairly quickly, there has been no mentioning of that at UT. It's basically just accusations of a perceived bias towards athletes, but when you look at history since CBJ has been here, it's quite the opposite. Von Pearson was booted off campus by the student council until his name was cleared,AJ and Mike Williams didn't play a single down after allegations against them came out. That doesn't say preferential treatment to me.

Alleged cover-up. Lots of details of the FSU situation were glossed over in media outlets, like they're doing with our current situation. My FSU buddies pointed out a ton of stuff in the investigative reports that make what FSU did look a lot less damning than what was presented constantly on ESPN and other outlets. Of course they didn't do things perfectly, but reading how the accuser changed her story and tried to have friends lie for her are some big red flags.

The media only cares about clicks and they'll get it any way they can even if it means inappropriately trashing an institution, its coaching staff and players.

Hope we fight this to the end, but it might make for a long, hard couple of years.

 

[KBVol]

I know I can google it, but I do not remember what came of the Duke situation. I remember it being all over espn when story broke, but do not remember what happened legally if someone does not care to summarize thanks in advance.

1. Dishonest, overzealous, activist prosecutor was exposed, wound up being disbarred

2. Charges dropped after accuser/hooker/lying whore was found to be lying. Unfortunately, a tremendous amount of damage was done to a lot of innocent young men and a coach who was forced to resign.

3. Accuser/hooker/lying whore now sits in jail on an unrelated murder conviction iirc.

 

[orange parmejohn]

Unfortunately probably right although I would like to see us fight this.

An ugly fight in court is the worst thing that could happen. I hope it's settled ASAP.

 

[JCHateSteve]

Where is innocent until proven guilty? Where is the right to face your accusers and have a speedy trial? When did it become proper to trample an individual's rights to appease certain grievance groups? Off the tracks...way off the tracks. Insanity.

Those things all pertain to a court of law not the university. Attending UT and playing football are privileges not rights. How would the university even compel an accuser to face anyone or effect the speed of a criminal case? If you are accused of a violent crime against a co-worker do you expect your employer to take no action until after the trial?

 

[lawgator1]

But details about the coverup in FSU's case came out fairly quickly, there has been no mentioning of that at UT. It's basically just accusations of a perceived bias towards athletes, but when you look at history since CBJ has been here, it's quite the opposite. Von Pearson was booted off campus by the student council until his name was cleared,AJ and Mike Williams didn't play a single down after allegations against them came out. That doesn't say preferential treatment to me.

That has been true ... up to now. Now you have a player alleging that a coach chastised him for helping a victim and that players then tried to intimidate him as a witness to her condition post-incident.

If any of that is true, I don't care how big a fan of the team, the coach, or the players you are, that is indefensible.

I don't have the slightest clue if its true or not. I wasn't there, neither were you. A statement without cross examination is not very persuasive, and I would expect the people accused of it to deny it.

You have two choices, #1 play it out and see how it all comes out, what people have to say under oath, what documentary evidence there might be, etc. That is time consuming and expensive, and fraught with the danger that the other side will stumble on to some simple error on UT's end that they can use to get to a jury.

Or # 2 you can settle it sooner than later, take your lumps, and put in rigid compliance measures so that you can rightly say you've done all you can to prevent any miscues in the future.

People always want to do #1. Then the legal bills start coming in. Rumors of the good, the bad, the ugly come out, ESPN is knocking on the door, and you end up begrudgingly going with # 2.

 

[Hubbard]

That has been true ... up to now. Now you have a player alleging that a coach chastised him for helping a victim and that players then tried to intimidate him as a witness to her condition post-incident.

If any of that is true, I don't care how big a fan of the team, the coach, or the players you are, that is indefensible.

I don't have the slightest clue if its true or not. I wasn't there, neither were you. A statement without cross examination is not very persuasive, and I would expect the people accused of it to deny it.

You have two choices, #1 play it out and see how it all comes out, what people have to say under oath, what documentary evidence there might be, etc. That is time consuming and expensive, and fraught with the danger that the other side will stumble on to some simple error on UT's end that they can use to get to a jury.

Or # 2 you can settle it sooner than later, take your lumps, and put in rigid compliance measures so that you can rightly say you've done all you can to prevent any miscues in the future.

People always want to do #1. Then the legal bills start coming in. Rumors of the good, the bad, the ugly come out, ESPN is knocking on the door, and you end up begrudgingly going with # 2.

Sometimes a simple compromise is more costly than standing up for character.

I guess it depends on what you value more: money or integrity.

 

[lawgator1]

Sometimes a simple compromise is more costly than standing up for character.

I guess it depends on what you value more: money or integrity.

You can choose a path based solely on denying any wrongdoing and convince yourself you are acting on principal.

But be careful not to confuse pride with principle.

And know that you have to live with the outcome if seven or eight random strangers picked off the street don't see it your way.

 

[Paper_Towel]

Don't forget the skinny jeans

Don't be hatin' on comfortable skinny jeans bruh

 

[volnpowell]

Sometimes a simple compromise is more costly than standing up for character.

I guess it depends on what you value more: money or integrity.

Plus no matter how tight you change regulations, they will always find a way you should have known or should have done type things and more importantly justifies what they are doing!!!!

 

[VolAllen]

Don't be hatin' on comfortable skinny jeans bruh

Although there's nothing too "skinny" about a size 36, I also buy from the "skinny" jean section.

Boot cut is just.....ugly.

 

[volbeast33]

You can choose a path based solely on denying any wrongdoing and convince yourself you are acting on principal.

But be careful not to confuse pride with principle.

And know that you have to live with the outcome if seven or eight random strangers picked off the street don't see it your way.

Yep they need to change the system to where the complainants share some of the risk if they lose their case

 

[volbeast33]

That has been true ... up to now. Now you have a player alleging that a coach chastised him for helping a victim and that players then tried to intimidate him as a witness to her condition post-incident.

If any of that is true, I don't care how big a fan of the team, the coach, or the players you are, that is indefensible.

I don't have the slightest clue if its true or not. I wasn't there, neither were you. A statement without cross examination is not very persuasive, and I would expect the people accused of it to deny it.

You have two choices, #1 play it out and see how it all comes out, what people have to say under oath, what documentary evidence there might be, etc. That is time consuming and expensive, and fraught with the danger that the other side will stumble on to some simple error on UT's end that they can use to get to a jury.

Or # 2 you can settle it sooner than later, take your lumps, and put in rigid compliance measures so that you can rightly say you've done all you can to prevent any miscues in the future.

People always want to do #1. Then the legal bills start coming in. Rumors of the good, the bad, the ugly come out, ESPN is knocking on the door, and you end up begrudgingly going with # 2.

That player also is a proven liar although he realize he will claim he was scared but he didn't look too scared hugging butch at the taxslayer bowl after it all went down

 

[Vol Main]

Sometimes a simple compromise is more costly than standing up for character.

I guess it depends on what you value more: money or integrity.

Money or integrity? At this point, we should at least acknowledge the possibility that mistakes were made. A lot might ride on the wording of Coach's talk with Bowles. He might have frankly stated that some of the players think you are a traitor to the team. It seems unlikely that Jones said, "You are a traitor to the team." Another thing is Maggit's behavior. If he hit Bowles to shut him up or punish him, what does it say about the culture when he continued to be treated as some kind of special player? He was not even playing and still received recognition as a team leader. There are serious elements in the allegations and the apparent facts, so we have to hope that there are also serious flaws and discrepancies.

 

[CAVPUT]

If you are accused of a violent crime against a co-worker do you expect your employer to take no action until after the trial?

Key word is "accused" and I believe that's the assumption of innocence until proven guilty. Used to be a fundamental right until folks became more concerned about pressure and PR than justice and fair trials before ones peers.

 

[dougvolfan]

where does it end you coud see a pandoras box open and every level of school fighting every nit picking thing in court. People's feelings get hurt=big payday. Rape is not exceptable but where do we draw the line.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Actually, if FSU's case is any indication, the primary issue is whether there is a mechanism in place for a woman who claims she has been victimized to report that, and have it be taken seriously. I think most university athletic departments are probably lacking in that regard.

The question of whether a coach or other people in the administration affirmatively do things to squelch such reporting is where the real problem lies.

1) NO athletic department ever serves as a place to report this type of incident. How you could make a statement inferring that is well, ignorant.
2) I can't believe that there are 3 people that liked your post.

Now, if you are fostering a conspiracy theory that somehow the AD's are getting to the University agencies that take these reports and squelching them there, then that's an issue. Has to be a lot of people involved and on the take for this to work effectively over and over again.

The complaints I have seen so far are that the university system isn't fast enough and offers the ability to use "unfair" help to the accused (like counseling and advice). Also that, in UTs case, CBJ is telling the players to drink, smoke dope, and rape every female they can.

 

[VOODOO DIABLO]

An ugly fight in court is the worst thing that could happen. I hope it's settled ASAP.

That will not work. One week after they settle they will file another civil suit with six more girls. They have them lined up. This will happen at every university in the coming months. Lawyers are putting it together as we speak. A lot more to this than just a money grab. It's a take over.

 

[Vol Main]

Does this thread about Hart's statement include a copy of Hart's statement? Or is this another VN thread which does not include the subject of the thread?

 

[lawgator1]

1) NO athletic department ever serves as a place to report this type of incident.
2) I have you credit

Its not the place to report the crime, but as I understand it they have a duty to then report it to the feds at some level.

Again, though, as I've said, that's something i think most places lack. It may be where liability technically attaches, but everyone knows that the thing that can kill you is if you are seen as in any way circling the wagons around a player accused of sexual misconduct.

FSU was accused of giving Winston's lawyers time to pollute the witnesses before the police were able to investigate, thus tarnishing their efforts.

Here, the accusation is that a player was chastised by a coach and then threatened by teammates, for helping a victim.

I hope he is lying because that would be awful, don't you think?

 

[82_VOL_83]

Its not the place to report the crime, but as I understand it they have a duty to then report it to the feds at some level.

Again, though, as I've said, that's something i think most places lack. It may be where liability technically attaches, but everyone knows that the thing that can kill you is if you are seen as in any way circling the wagons around a player accused of sexual misconduct.

FSU was accused of giving Winston's lawyers time to pollute the witnesses before the police were able to investigate, thus tarnishing their efforts.

Here, the accusation is that a player was chastised by a coach and then threatened by teammates, for helping a victim.

I hope he is lying because that would be awful, don't you think?

Go back and read the finished post. Phone had a seizure.

 

[lawgator1]

1) NO athletic department ever serves as a place to report this type of incident. How you could make a statement inferring that is well, ignorant.
2) I can't believe that there are 3 people that liked your post.

Now, if you are fostering a conspiracy theory that somehow the AD's are getting to the University agencies that take these reports and squelching them there, then that's an issue. Has to be a lot of people involved and on the take for this to work effectively over and over again.

The complaints I have seen so far are that the university system isn't fast enough and offers the ability to use "unfair" help to the accused (like counseling and advice). Also that, in UTs case, CBJ is telling the players to drink, smoke dope, and rape every female they can.

No, see, we are speaking past each other. I don't think that AD's, coaches, or their staffs, have meetings and sit around and come up with ways to cover up crimes.

I think the worry is that, in a parking lot on the way out of the facility, or in some sort of other informal encounter, someone who ought to have better sense than to in any way interfere with reporting or handling such a report, does so. That there is a quick reaction to protect the player, without thinking it through.

Do I personally think that CBJ would do that? No. But I wasn't there, so i don't know that.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Its not the place to report the crime, but as I understand it they have a duty to then report it to the feds at some level.

Again, though, as I've said, that's something i think most places lack. It may be where liability technically attaches, but everyone knows that the thing that can kill you is if you are seen as in any way circling the wagons around a player accused of sexual misconduct.

FSU was accused of giving Winston's lawyers time to pollute the witnesses before the police were able to investigate, thus tarnishing their efforts.

Here, the accusation is that a player was chastised by a coach and then threatened by teammates, for helping a victim.

I hope he is lying because that would be awful, don't you think?

Don't cherry pick one incident based in hearsay. He has an affidavit offering an opposite view. And no this isn't what this is about. It's about the university system somehow encouraging this behavior. FSU's situation was absolutely criminal. There was collusion between campus police, local LEOs, and everyone one in between. Also the girl you call a victim is an alleged victim. There is no proof that anything that went on wasn't consensual.

 

[SuperDave]

That has been true ... up to now. Now you have a player alleging that a coach chastised him for helping a victim and that players then tried to intimidate him as a witness to her condition post-incident.

If any of that is true, I don't care how big a fan of the team, the coach, or the players you are, that is indefensible.

I don't have the slightest clue if its true or not. I wasn't there, neither were you. A statement without cross examination is not very persuasive, and I would expect the people accused of it to deny it.

You have two choices, #1 play it out and see how it all comes out, what people have to say under oath, what documentary evidence there might be, etc. That is time consuming and expensive, and fraught with the danger that the other side will stumble on to some simple error on UT's end that they can use to get to a jury.

Or # 2 you can settle it sooner than later, take your lumps, and put in rigid compliance measures so that you can rightly say you've done all you can to prevent any miscues in the future.

People always want to do #1. Then the legal bills start coming in. Rumors of the good, the bad, the ugly come out, ESPN is knocking on the door, and you end up begrudgingly going with # 2.

that's funny...